Thread: Amnesty for Former TRT Executives?

Originally Posted by mao say dung

No, he's the kind of super wealthy Sino-Thai Northerner whose gramps was a tax farmer that needs votes to get into power; the amart they rattle on about use tanks and royalist-mystico bumpf about phudii to maintain an outmoded form of government. Just because you don't recognize the difference doesn't mean they don't.

ok there is a difference, it's just has nothing to do with democracy. So again my question stands in your apparent contradiction and interpretation of their movement, what do they really want ? another form of dictatorship based on right wing populism ? the right to choose their dictator ?

Originally Posted by longway

Wow elected criminals as opposed to unelected aristocrats. Bravo to 'them'.

well put, that's basically it. Mao think choosing your dictator is what democracy is all about. Maybe he needs a lecture on political science and the foundation of democratic principles. Hint: it has nothing to do with an election or popularity.

Originally Posted by longway

Yes I know I know the Amart they bad they jealous him.

that's probably closer to the truth than we think, they wish they could be as bad and manipulative as he is

Originally Posted by mao say dung

Only a fool would expect a Thai democracy or a Thai pro-democracy movement to have the form and sensibilities of western liberal democracy.

that's the problem, the only form of true "demcracy" is the one we have now in the west after hundreds of years of "refinery". The Asian version is nothing more than dictatorships disguised as some version of ultra light Democracy, basically a "fake" Democracy. Very appropriate for Thailand, the hub of fake goods manufacturing.

Originally Posted by mao say dung

Liberalism really isn't a big factor in any Asian society.

indeed, they prefer fascism, it's in their blood, and they love it. We can probably blame it on their long history of strong tribal culture.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

choosing your dictator is what democracy is

You can take the nutter out of the PAD, but you can't take the PAD out of the nutter

You can't argue with that

Originally Posted by Calgary

Originally Posted by longway

Originally Posted by Calgary

Originally Posted by longway

Dare I ask how I contribute to censorship?

By particpating in forums that exercise it. You know full well what I am talking about LW

Yeah I am sorry they banned you. You seemed to cause people to have fits with your posts, it was funny to see.

Allright, I will take it that censorship is OK with you.

Just asked.

But I'm happy to see the likes of you over here LW...Shows you are a 'cut' above the others..................... I need 'foils' like you, Thaihome and others, to educate those who read these political threads. ....................Few are involved with the UDD/Red Shirts to any degree, leaving these Posts their only alternative perspective, countering the anti-UDD/Red Shirts stuff inundating them in the domestic media and over there on "the dark side".

As long as you are happy Calgary

Originally Posted by longway

And in future please stop presuming to the a spokesman for Thais and give your silly little lectures on what they think and how they think, its obvious you have no special little skills in that regard.

I don't actually do that, longway.

I do read a lot, however:

Meanwhile, the tolerance of the people for corruption was high in Thailand, scoring 8 out of 10. But the country was outscored by Indonesia (9), the Philippines (8.2) and Vietnam (8.14). Again, Singapore came out best in Asean with the least tolerance against corruption of 0.71, followed by Malaysia (5.91).

Poldech cited research of several decades ago pointing out that Thai people were not closely knit in terms of social cohesion and were less nationalistic than Japan, South Korea and China. The Thai people did not care so much about the public good.Other Thai traits that foster corruption are client-patron relationships, power centralisation and a carefree attitude. Most Thais are more concerned with their daily lives and having fun. They are easily bored and indifferent towards corruption by politicians and bureaucrats.

The tolerance for corruption permeates throughout all sectors of society and the community. Even the judiciary and independent organisations are no exception. So it is not surprising when one hears of these organisations being mired in corruption allegations.

There are many studies of attitudes toward corruption in Thailand and most find that, as I said, Thais do not have the same attitudes that folks from liberal-democracies have. Do your own search if you're interested.

I didn't suggest that

Originally Posted by longway

eradication of patronage networks is 'liberalism'

; I just said that Thais don't look at such things in the same way that folks from liberal democracies do.

Asians in general, likely because of their more group-oriented values, political and other, don't have the attitudes toward patronage that many "western" people do. And, yes, I do think that our inclination toward liberalism and its emphasis on the individual as the focus of value is likely the source of the difference.

Originally Posted by longway

But no matter there are no better alternatives anyway that are realistically possible here

Your certainty about such things is exemplary. You get that from a fortune-teller or from your indoctrination into the cult of mumbo-jumbo as initiated by Sarit so long ago?

Originally Posted by longway

I don't need your silly lectures to know that people think differently in asia. It's why I choose to live here.

And yet... and yet... you don't seem to be able to accept (or is it tolerate?) the rather obvious difference that that thinking must make in styles of democracy that have and will emerge[d] in Asia.

You have chosen to live in a country where the majority of voters support the idea of democracy and where their democratic choice of leader is Thaksin.

Enjoy.

Originally Posted by mao say dung

Originally Posted by longway

I don't need your silly lectures to know that people think differently in asia. It's why I choose to live here.

And yet... and yet... you don't seem to be able to accept (or is it tolerate?) the rather obvious difference that that thinking must make in styles of democracy that have and will emerge[d] in Asia.

You have chosen to live in a country where the majority of voters support the idea of democracy and where their democratic choice of leader is Thaksin.

Enjoy.

Are you really this thick?

My copy is stashed away somewhere with my other Rajprasong memorabilia. They had 4 main goals:

1.a democratic state with a constitutional monarchy in which power belongs to the people
2. a fair and just state, a legal state with a fair judicial system; the double standards thing
3. bring back the 97 constitution to be revised and amended
4. a free capitalist state in which inequality can be addressed by taking economic power out of the hands of the oligarchy

They made clear their support for and defense of Thaksin and their sense of injustice in his treatment etc....

It's got nothing to do with what I do or do not accept, something which you don't have a clue about, yet pontificate about it endlessly, just as you do about Thais. Nor has it anything to do with a 'democratic styles'

The question posed was what does the UDD do other than support the PT. They have made these 4 goals not me. What do they do to achieve them? Anything? Still waiting for you or anyone to come up with something.

Originally Posted by longway

What do they do to achieve them?

In your experience, what do protest groups usually do to achieve their goals?

OK... so what do activists, advocates or movements generally do to achieve their goals? In your experience...

Originally Posted by mao say dung

OK... so what do activists, advocates or movements generally do to achieve their goals? In your experience...

Something other than support a corrupt political party controlled by proxy by a convicted criminal bleeding the country dry with corrupt scams while him and his cronies strive for unfettered power and try to be above the law.

But perhaps I am just intolerant of his democratic style.

You asked me this same question before and I gave you a straightforward answer. Any chance you will answer a question in return in a straightforward way, or will you just continue with your tired old obnoxious prevaricating.

I wasn't asking about people who who refuse to support the Dem/Military/Palace status quo... I want you to say something about what activists, advocates or movements (let's say "pro-democracy a, a or m) usually do in your experience.

^ so you are going to continue to avoid giving an answer. I asked you a question a long time ago, and answered one of your questions in the meantime, which led to an irrelevant detour, but you still refuse to answer it, and continue to obfuscate.

Pretty obnoxious as usual.

Nothing beneath the veneer of obnoxiousness is there? a hollow shell of an intellectual position.

Sorry, longway, but you really are a clown.

This whole phase of this interminable thread revolves around the assertion that UDD is not a democracy "activist, advocate or movement" movement. You have gone on about what they don't do, which you would like to pretend means they aren't a....

I've pointed out that democracy advocate/protest/activist movements are NOT governments and therefore not in a position to do the things you quite rightly point out that they don't do/haven't done.

So now I'd like to know what you think such movements do in fact do.

It's simple really.

So it ought to be a match.

Go for it.

^ wow Mao say dumb finally answers a simple question.

First of all I have never given the rejoinder to an answer of yours that's it's all for thaksin, because until now, you have done everything you can to avoid answering a straightforward question.

And now after all that you come up with the Incredibly murky events of rajaprasong, and want to assert that any connection between that and thaksin is unfair in you customary obnoxious way.

That's it, then that's all you got? That and memorial events, and a still unclear impact on thailand's political climate.

That's fine, good bye dickhead.

Originally Posted by mao say dung

Can't imagine why you think they "can't see" any of that. They are Thai and patronage and corruption are apparently not judged as harshly by most Thais as they are by people from liberal democracies. This tends to be true throughout Asia. Only a fool would expect a Thai democracy or a Thai pro-democracy movement to have the form and sensibilities of western liberal democracy. Liberalism really isn't a big factor in any Asian society.

I am always amused at the hypocracy of some people on this site when these sort of statements come up. They are outraged about coups and 'unelected' governments as it goes against the model of western style democracy, but quite easily condone patronage and corruction as it is ''the Asian way'. Hilarious.

What most don't understand, is that to do away with the former,you have to start with rooting out the latter. That is how the western style democracies managed to become what they are today; strong laws that are enforced and applicable to all.

Originally Posted by mao say dung

There are many studies of attitudes toward corruption in Thailand and most find that, as I said, Thais do not have the same attitudes that folks from liberal-democracies have. Do your own search if you're interested.

Isn't that the truth.

I am often amazed, as to the reaction from Thai's, when instances of obvious corruption are brought to their attention.

To be more specific, in this instance I am speaking of an educated Thai, a fierce Democracy advocate, a leading political demonstrator who lived on the streets during R'song, was one of the final ones to exit Wat Patom (sp?), would be considered a hard-core Red Shirt as the domestic media tries to denigrate those holding strong political views.........................but when faced with this obvious corruption, there is voiced opposition but never the 'hellfire reaction' there is to the Amart and its' coupist excesses.

Continues to amaze me.

Where are the famous 'muckrakers' who challenged Govts. in the early 19th. century.

Originally Posted by longway

You just go every which way jumping around from one lame bunch of bs
to another to try and justify why the UDD don't do anything to advance democracy in thailand

You repetitively say the same thing over and over LW, the bit about the UDD doing nothing to advance Democracy.

In addition to MSD's thoughtful and factually supported counter to it, and my lengthy Post countering it as well, you blithely ignore all of that, and just repeat it over and over.

That is why I say, "foils' like you are necessary to elicit reasoned and factual Posts that reasonable people on this Board will read and be informed by.

The likes of you however, who are hopelesly indoctrinated by the propagandist media, and part of the enforced 'group think' over there on the dark side, would never understand.

To accept such thinking, would seriously damage self-esteem built upon the construction of political realities as advanced by the propagandistic media, and internalized as gospel. To question such an understanding now, would put the lie to all that you have held near and dear for so long.

That would be painful.

Originally Posted by Calgary

You repetitively say the same thing over and over LW,

Originally Posted by BKKBoet

What most don't understand, is that to do away with the former,you have to start with rooting out the latter. That is how the western style democracies managed to become what they are today; strong laws that are enforced and applicable to all.

Besides the massive literature on democratization, a free-for-all of competing theories that rarely come out with this sort of pat oversimplification, and the rather simple historical fact that this is patently not the case, is there some special crystal ball that one can lay hands on to arrive at this conclusion?

Sounds like someone gets his sense of political history from TV and the Illustrated Classics series of comic books.