Thread: Phi Phi : Canadian sisters found dead in Thai resort

Originally Posted by wasabi

Great detective work by the TD sleuthes , boi gives you credit for cracking this case.

Thankyou. It was me who first mentioined aluminium phosphide in this case here on TD, and I worked it out myself. Didn't get the idea from some other website.

Hah, that was easy. The really tough part of that whole deal was de-bunking the crazy, frazzled old septic, Guy in Thailand.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Originally Posted by wasabi

Great detective work by the TD sleuthes , boi gives you credit for cracking this case.

Thankyou. It was me who first mentioined aluminium phosphide in this case here on TD, and I worked it out myself. Didn't get the idea from some other website.

Nonsense.

19/06/2012, Post#116, this thread:

Originally Posted by guyinthailand

Originally Posted by BobR

Sound's like another overly ambitious bug exterminator.

It's true a poison like aluminum phosphide could be the culprit.

Aluminum phosphide fits the bill even better than chlorpyrifos since it doesn't take much inhaled of aluminum phosphide to kill via inhalation. Usually it is hard to kill someone via inhalation of a pesticide, rodenticide, etc. But aluminum phosphide is extremely toxic and has killed several members of a family, for example, after the U.S. exterminator put some pellets in rodent holes OUTside the house and the fumes wafted into the house.

But, again, the question must be asked: if putting a few aluminum phosphide pellets in the AC (or wherever) to 'off-gas' and kill bedbugs is common practice in Thailand, then why haven't we seen more deaths from accidental inhalation from tourists and others in hotel rooms? There should be numerous, random deaths from pesticides if this is the case.

There are tens of thousands of hotel rooms in Thailand and hundreds of thousands---millions--of tourists stay in those rooms so we should here of many, many more of these types of deaths if thai hotel personnel were really using these kinds of poisons.

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Hah, that was easy. The really tough part of that whole deal was de-bunking the crazy, frazzled old septic, Guy in Thailand.

Having just read all the posts in the other poisoning threads—a LOT of reading!--- I did see a mention of aluminum phosphide by guyinthailand in Jan 2010 but it was only a mention of it as one possibility. It was Latindancer who was the first to actually propose it in August 2011 as ‘the’ culprit. He beat all others including Medical Examiners in Canada and Norway to publicly propose it

The other teakdoor threads in question are, for the record:
https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...h-phi-phi.html
https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...ing-death.html (NZ woman in Thailand food poisoning death),
https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...or-speaks.html (Mystery Phi Phi Deaths; Survivor Speaks, Finally)
https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...-hot-spot.html (Thailand: Dark side of tour hot spot)

I must say I have to disagree with seekingasylum about the many posts of guyinthailand. Guyinthailand’s marshalling of the science and evidence was really interesting, including how he disproved the so-called farang ‘expert’, Dr Ron McDowall, who was saying chlorpyrifos had to be the culprit in The Downtown Inn in Chiangmai. And, contrary to what seekingasylum implies, guyinthailand never stuck to the warfarin as the culprit, he was quick to rule it out, so it is specious and illogical of seekingasylum to criticize the poster for this, especially since it is important to examine all the possibilities, and rule out those that don’t fit.

And guyinthailand’s idea that these poisoning could be murder? It sounded far-fetched when I first heard it. But he said something like ‘until proven otherwise, you can’t rule out murder’. The Thai experts said they did indeed “rule out murder”, but is anything Thai experts say ‘reassuring’ especially given how they mishandled and obfuscated this case for years?

I am struck by his comments that if aluminum phosphide were used by many hotel owners then why don’t we see more accidental deaths in Thailand, given how toxic it is? That is a fair point. Since throwing a handful of these pellets into a room is so efficient at killing the zillions of Thai hotel bedbug infestations then why indeed don’t we see more accidental human poisonings in Thailand? Just try killing bedbugs with other methods—look up the stories of those spending thousands of dollars to rid their apartments elsewhere in the world—and you can see why the Thais would be quick to use the quick and cheap aluminum phosphide.

And I myself would like to ask, in the case of the 6 people dying in Chiang Mai, why were only 4 of the victims staying in the Downtown Inn? The other two, Bill Mah and Soraya Vorster, only VISITED the hotel, "using the pool facilities". Did those two sneak into one of the toxic rooms and lie down for several hours, which is what it takes to die from the gas in a room? Or did they drink ‘something’ at poolside?

Look, all the deaths can *probably* be attributed to accidental exposure. If I had to bet, I would say accidental. But were they really? Isn’t that the M.O. of a smart murderer, to make it appear as if it were ‘accidental’? How difficult is it to murder someone by placing some aluminum phosphide pellets near a window or in the ventilation system or inside a room or in a drink?

Obviously, aluminum phosphide kills people accidentally. And the Thai police ruled out murder. But whatever the Thai police and Thai ‘experts’ say must be taken with a grain of salt.

So, how are things going these days, Guy?

17-01-2010, 01:18 PM #6 (permalink)
guyinthailand

PHOSPHINE (ALUMINUM PHOSPHIDE Phosphine (aluminum phosphide)




17-08-2011, 10:55 AM #584 (permalink)
Latindancer

I have another hypothesis, which I think fits very well. It's very compelling, in fact.....Aluminium Phosphide poisoning.




08-04-2012, 04:25 AM #3 (permalink)
guyinthailand

Please note the 'chemical smell' noticed in the thread below could have been aluminum phosphide,

So fucking what? He read about it elsewhere and posted it here. As a theoretical possibility. In much the same manner he posited the thesis it was a serial killer with a thing about farang.

Talking about Latindancer's claim, of course.

Thankyou. It was me who first mentioined aluminium phosphide in this case here on TD, and I worked it out myself. Didn't get the idea from some other website.

Watch you don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.

Some mothers do have them.

Loves the attention.

^^ Trouble is, you weren't the first as you claimed in another post.

Originally Posted by ENT

^^ Trouble is, you weren't the first as you claimed in another post.

Latindancer WAS the first, as already explained:

Originally Posted by boi

I did see a mention of aluminum phosphide by guyinthailand in Jan 2010 but it was only a mention of it as one possibility. It was Latindancer who was the first to actually propose it in August 2011 as ‘the’ culprit. He beat all others including Medical Examiners in Canada and Norway to publicly propose it

guyinthailand's *mentioning* aluminum phosphide as one possibility doesn't qualify as stating it is the culprit.

So what.

Latindaner erroneously claimed to be the first to mention it on this thread.


Bigging himself up as usual.

[QUOTE=boi;3348624]

Originally Posted by ENT

^^ Trouble is, you weren't the first as you claimed in another post.

Latindancer WAS the first, as already explained:




Quote the post.

post #584 dated aug 17, 2011.
dots below indicate sentences edited out. Full post here: https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...ml#post1846889 (NZ woman in Thailand food poisoning death)

Originally Posted by Latindancer

…………………….
I have another hypothesis, which I think fits very well. It's very compelling, in fact.....Aluminium Phosphide poisoning.
Keeping in mind that the panel of experts has stated that it is likely a poison of some unknown sort, consider the following, and please note that both metabolic acidosis and myocarditis are present :
…………..

Aluminium Phosphide is readily available in Thailand and used as a rat poison or grain fumigant. Only 1.5 grams will kill a person. It is quite possible that some dust from pellets of this became mixed with grain eaten by the deceased in the Downtown Inn. ………….

It’s the commonest lethal cause of poisonings (and suicides) in developing countries.
It's readily available here. It would have been easy for it to have gotten into food there, and the symptoms fit.
There is one prominent symptom which it would be interesting to ask the two survivors if they had : a decaying fish, or garlic-like smell.
One of them had very low blood pressure, which is also a symptom of Al Phosphide poisoning.
…….

and then six days later in the same thread Latindancer posts this:

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Originally Posted by misskit

Originally Posted by guyinthailand

Aluminium phosphide poisoning.

While looking at information about this chemical, I came across this. Could be...

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Fumes kill two Danes in Jeddah

I'd like to bring back the Aluminium phosphide hypothesis.
Misskit's link is very revealing.

"Traces of the pesticide, aluminium phosphide, were found on dishes in the next door house ".
It doesn't take much of that stuff. Everything fits that it was this.

Traces of aluminium were found in the carpet in at least one room of the Downtown Inn.

Thanks for that, boi.

However just ignore ENT....one of his favourite tricks is to demand links and send people scurrying around to prove a point, then when they have, to dismiss it with some daft comment.

In real life he has Aspergers or some such mental ailment and here on TD he's a real pain in the arse.

17-01-2010, 01:18 PM #6 (permalink)
guyinthailand

PHOSPHINE (ALUMINUM PHOSPHIDE Phosphine (aluminum phosphide)


-----


[QUOTE=boi;3348699]post #584 dated aug 17, 2011.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

…………………….
I have another hypothesis, which I think fits very well. It's very compelling, in fact.....Aluminium Phosphide poisoning.

-----


Contrary to Latindancer's claim, he was not the first to bring up the possibility of aluminium phosphide being involved.
GiT first mentioned aluminium phosphide 0n 17/01/2010, more than a year and a half before Latindancer brought it up on TD.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

.... It was me who first mentioined aluminium phosphide in this case here on TD, and I worked it out myself. Didn't get the idea from some other website.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

I simply mentioned myself being the first to outline aluminium phosphide and

No you didn't, you said;
"It was me who first mentioined aluminium phosphide in this case here on TD, and I worked it out myself. Didn't get the idea from some other website."


But you weren't the first, were you?

Originally Posted by Latindancer

I simply mentioned myself being the first to outline aluminium phosphide and

Actually, it was your new nik "boi" who claimed that you were the "first to outline aluminium phosphide..."