A summary of what happened Butterfly, all of which can be verified from media reports at the time. I guess I need to bundle them up and allow you to summarise the facts as you see them.
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A summary of what happened Butterfly, all of which can be verified from media reports at the time. I guess I need to bundle them up and allow you to summarise the facts as you see them.
actually not true, on the election in 2000, there were strong sentiments regarding corruption in politics because of the recovery since 1997, and Khun T projected himself as Mr Clean and being so rich that he will never needs corruption in public office.Quote:
Originally Posted by nidhogg
that was the second argument after they realized that their first argument (see above) didn't happen. Bunch of fools.Quote:
Originally Posted by nidhogg
you obviously can't read news, or maybe you didn't understand what you readQuote:
Originally Posted by Troy
I agree that the Senate selection was watered down to 74 selected and 76 elected to allow some sort of legitimacy. However, the intention was the same as all previous coups to remove election of Senators.
Perhaps you would like to explain your interpretation instead of simply stating that I am in error.
Thanks for the ride, but now I'll go my own way - The Nation
stoppage time
Thanks for the ride, but now I'll go my own way
Tulsathit Taptim
[email protected]
May 23, 2012 1:00 am
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif
Thaksin Shinawatra wants peace, seemingly at least.
Well, there's nothing new there. He also has proclaimed his undying love for the monarchy. That's not news, either. What about his burning desire to return home? It's probably the oldest piece of information.
So, what made his latest phone-in to the red shirts so special then? Of course, he talked at length, but he had done it before a few times, when the connections were good. That the Democrat Party took his speech and turned it into self-serving babbling, and that Noppadol Pattama has had to clean up after his boss are anything but a surprise. Most elements of Thaksin's red-shirt address on Saturday are kind of "been there, done that".
What raised eyebrows was his suggestion on who stands between Thailand and reconciliation, or between him and the road home. He was expressing deep gratitude to the red shirts, all right, but the way he did it also looked like a sad farewell. If you did not hear it, imagine the romantic "thank you" in the movie when the hero and heroine are about to break up.
"We have come as far as we possibly could together" was the apparent message. Unless you can come up with another interpretation for "You are the boatman who has taken me to the shore. It will be a new journey for me from now on, and you can't simply carry me and your boat up the mountain", that is.
The Democrats were quick to say to the red shirts, "We told you so". Noppadol was quick to call that an old, dirty trick to pit Thaksin against his own supporters. ASTV website was quick to ask why Thaksin never talked reconciliation when troops were getting restless, red shirts belligerent and Ratchaprasong mall-owners were becoming nervous about possible arson. Giles Ungphakorn was quick to brand Thaksin an egomaniac.
Are the red shirts, or the extremists in their ranks to be exact, becoming the liability obstructing Thaksin's attempt to get amnesty and return home a free man? This ASTV question may irk many people in the multi-layered movement, but the long faces among red-shirt leaders listening to the phone-in were a tell-tale sign that ASTV was not the only one doing the irking.
The red shirts have landed Thaksin on the shore. After an uprising in 2010, they gave his party a landslide election victory last year and installed his youngest sister as Thailand's first female prime minister. The journey from the beach head to the mountain does not require tens of thousands of protesters camped in a business district or relentless social media demonisation of the "elite".
In fact, the journey up the mountain requires the exact opposite. If Thai politics remains volatile, any amnesty formula that Thaksin could benefit from will be labelled hypocritically detrimental to the government's proclaimed reconciliation agenda. Thaksin must have realised that his amnesty plan and real peace must go hand in hand. While he may have been wrong about many things, he is right about that.
As far as Thaksin is concerned, though, it's no longer a question of right or wrong. It's now a question whether his U-turn has come too late. When so many people have been killed, buildings burnt and prejudice against "the other side" runs stronger and stronger and deeper and deeper, he can't simply tell his supporters to just drop it. And this is only half of the problem.
In his strongly-worded statement, Giles insisted that Thaksin is not democracy; in other words, not something the majority of Thai people have been fighting for. That is what many on the other side have been trying to say, but coming from him it may carry more weight. What is democracy? What constitutes justice? Giles is bringing out this subtext to the Thai political crisis loud and clear.
It has been a weird mix from the start - one of Thailand's richest men declaring himself a champion of the poor, and a politician who flouted democracy in many ways becoming a symbol of the clamour for greater political freedom. He moulded the red shirts, and they in return moulded him, and thanks to some common interests, they blended and became a logic-defying political phenomenon.
Now, Thaksin wants out of this marriage. The logic he uses may be the most mind-boggling of all. I want to repay you, he told the red shirts on Saturday, but I can't do that by being so far away. Only when Thailand has real peace can I return home, and only then shall you receive my full gratitude. For the country to achieve reconciliation, we need your help. Please help me so I can help you.
No, these are not the words of a selfish man, Noppadol insisted. Of course, they are, the Democrats maintained. Of course, he is egoistic, Giles said, in unthinkable agreement with the Democrats. If Thaksin on the war path is controversial, him seeking peace is apparently a lot more so.
said the used car salesman to the lemmingQuote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
Either the Nation's propaganda dept's translation team have been working overtime, the red shirts really are simply thakin's tools or, most likely, thaksin has seriously lost the plot.Quote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazz
From comment #9 on New Mandela to the article Why the compromise game?
According to Matichon (May 23, p. 3 column), Thaksin had said in his phone-in something like, “Today, we have reached the end of our path. It is like the people have rowed me in a boat to the bank. From now on it is about climbing a mountain. For this, I have to get into a car. The people do not need to carry the boat on their shoulders and send me up the mountain.”
In this context, can anybody confirm that Thaksin, in the same phone-in, said that this would be the last time that he phoned in to a UDD event?
Perhaps one of our readers of Thai language newspapers could provide thier version.
TH
excellent article, captured the whole meaning of the current political situationQuote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
Quote:
Thanks for the ride, but now I'll go my own way - The Nation
"Reconciliation Thaksin's road home?' or is reconciliation gamesmanship by Tulsathit's people designed to recover some electoral losses, and protect their murderers?Quote:
What raised eyebrows was his suggestion on who stands between Thailand and reconciliation, or between him and the road home
I guess it all comes down to perspective and agenda.
Is that what one calls the reaction to a coup? If that is belligerent, how would one describe a 'coup'?Quote:
"............red shirts belligerent"
Actually any opposition to Tulsathit's Amart/PADites/ASTV crowd, would be considered 'extremist'Quote:
"Are the red shirts, or the extremists in their ranks to be exact."
I am sure each and every UDD/Red Shirt is considered 'extreme' and 'hard core' in the hallowed, upper halls of Thailand.
It is one way to describe those who scare the hell out of them and their political hegemony.
It won't remain volatile, because it isn't volatile to begin with.Quote:
"If Thai politics remains volatile..........."
Out-of-power, the electoral losers would like to suggest there is volatility and turmoil, and they will do everything they can to create it, but they are now the minority. The days of their 'tyranny of the minority' are over.
Was there a coup?Quote:
When so many people have been killed, buildings burnt and prejudice against "the other side" runs stronger and stronger and deeper and deeper
This media's studious avoidance of anything to that effect is palpable
A little like trying to airbrush a significant event out of existence.
There is rationale for it though.
It serves their campaign to deprive R'song protesting taxpayers of their political context, characterizing them as a generalist anarchic rabble demonstrating against an angelic, legitimate Government.
A government who in their long-suffering, finally needed to 'crack down'
Yeah right!
Quote:
He moulded the red shirts, and they in return moulded him, and thanks to some common interests, they blended and became a logic-defying political phenomenon.
"[I]Thanks to some common interests....?"[/I]
Could that perhaps have been a coup?
They would'nt say shit if their mouth was full of it.
In an Asiaone report on the phone-in he is quoted as saying:Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaihome
Which sounds very much like he is telling the Reds to shut up about justice or there will be... what? Civil war? Government killing of Reds?Quote:
"Should reconciliation happen, I will have an opportunity to serve my fellow Thai citizens," he said.
"If you don't want to reconcile, I don't mind living abroad. But you should think who would benefit from the continuing fight because only arms merchants will become rich."
Considering that the government is PT, you have to wonder.
On the other hand, I haven't seen this quote elsewhere. Anyone?
Thaksin at odds with reds over call for justice
Update: Oops. It's in the Nation too. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/poli...-30182524.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaihome
looks pretty similar to meQuote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
and no wonder they feel like they do
used
the backlash to this could ignite a large area civil disturbance
I was not happy about the Red Shirt rally in memory of the May 2010 crackdown. I could no see what useful purpose it could achieve. I have a feeling that Dr T could not see how it could help the Red Shirt or his cause either. Hence the words used in his speech.
There are times when stability becomes very noticeable and after the recent turmoil it is what's needed now. Consolidation of position is sometimes the best way forward.
all happening as expected,
again proving the PADites they were right all along :p
I don't see how the Reds benefit from "consolidation" if it just means that the PT government is going to enter into a broad coalition with the very people the Reds accuse of subverting democracy and disenfranchising them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy
Imagine that, the revisionist red rabble is fragmenting and seeking hegemony with the kulak class. Comrade Loosenuts has a dialectic for precisely this sort of backsliding. Are you not invited Comrade Mao or have you got to do your mum's shopping?Quote:
Originally Posted by mao say dung
Tooting Popular Front has need of you Mao!
Who does your washing?
Do you actually understand the meaning of the word "disingenuous" Mao or are you so naive as to be not safe to walk the streets?Quote:
Originally Posted by mao say dung
Grow up and get real. The guy wants back at any cost. There are no principles, no doctrine, no cause. It's simply he wants back to do what he always does best..... finagle, have power, fly Airforce One to go shopping with Pomjaman in Hong Kong and cut shitty deals with skanky Burmese, Khmer and Singapore. Dribbling on about arms and civil war is just him adding spurious heat to foozle the dumbos in Isaan. Where the hell is he going to get another Seh Daeng?
You really are one stupid schmuck.
Red leader takes dig at 'egotistic' Thaksin - The Nation
Red leader takes dig at 'egotistic' Thaksin
Attapoom Ongkulna,
Panya Thiewsangwan
The Nation May 25, 2012 1:00 am
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif
Sombat (C)
Sombat tells comrades ex-PM is just a 'station on way towards democracy'
Red-shirt leader Sombat Boonngam-anong, one of those strongly critical of fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra's shifting stances, yesterday said Thaksin's remark that the red shirts had rowed the boat to send him to the other side of the river reflected the ex-premier's "egotistic attitude".
Sombat, considered one of the progressives among the red shirts, likened Thaksin to "just a station on the way towards democracy", and that Thaksin was not the destination.
"I want to tell my fellow red shirts loudly that we have to continue with our journey. The Dubai tycoon has left us and we have to live with it," he said, referring to Thaksin.
Meanwhile, the defence minister said yesterday that Thaksin was not cosying up to the elite as had been alleged by some disappointed red-shirt figures.
ACM Sukampol Suwannathat said he had never heard that Thaksin had reached any deal with the elite. He said "positive or friendly gestures" did not mean that the Thaksin camp had made a deal with the elite.
His remarks came after disappointment among independent red-shirt leaders, who are not connected to the ruling Pheu Thai Party, following Thaksin's video-link address to the red shirts' gathering last Saturday.
On the second anniversary of the unrest and riots in 2010, Thaksin asked his red-shirt supporters to back the government's reconciliation efforts and remain patient with the slow justice process regarding the deaths of their family members who were among 91 people killed during over two months of political turmoil. He also urged the red shirts to respect the monarchy.
Sukampol yesterday said it was normal for Thaksin's remarks to draw both support and criticism. "We have the same goal although we take different paths," he said. "You can't force people to do anything you like. You have to let them do their job so that our common goal will be achieved."
He said the country needed to achieve reconciliation to ensure its survival. "The main goal for this government is a stable country," he said.
The defence minister said he believed Thaksin wanted to return to the country, adding that he did not think the ex-leader would be of any threat to anyone.
In 2008, Thaksin was sentenced in-absentia to two years in jail by the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders for abuse of power. He did not appeal the verdict, saying that it was politically motivated.
Good to see you and ol' Thaksin on the same page... the point of my post was to suggest that this was his thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by thegent
I simply disagree with both of you in assuming that the "dumbos" can be "foozled". A more intelligent view would be that Reds who want him back and who will be content with that don't need to hear this sort of nonsense. And those who are more interested in democracy and justice and the like won't fall for it anyway.
As always, your foam-flecked rhetoric is the measure of your vacancy.
Yes,The school for Numbnuts:smileylaughing:Quote:
Originally Posted by thegent
The 'divide and conquer' propagandist media focus is alive and well.Quote:
Red leader takes dig at 'egotistic' Thaksin - The Nation
Their wishful thinking is obvious for all to see.
The entire framing of this article is to find and highlight anything suggesting a UDD/Red Shirt/PTP/Thaksin controversy.
Anywhere but the Nation, one could give it a semblance of credibility, but they are their own worst enemies by reputation.
Nothing this anti-Red Shirt rag says against the UDD/Red Shirts/PTP/Thaksin alliance has any validity, because one expects them to say it. If their were anything luvvy-duvvy within this alliance to report on, it would not be reported.
But there are indoctrinated Farangs who 'lap this stuff up' (see signature).
Basically reduces them to the same level.
So he did not say this.Quote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
Nor that?Quote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
They seem to be quotes. Just a bit puzzled.
^ Not expecting an answer from the nutcase are you? :)
If you get anything, it will be just to accuse you of being a "Typical Amart Padite Coupist Mushroom". :)
Figured what the hell. :)
^ You're probably on his ignore list.... Just think, If he stuck SD on his ignore list he'd have no posts to dribble over ever again.
<---- What it says. :)