Any doubts about Climate Change?

**Umbuku** · 08-05-2013, 08:54 AM

Agreed.

They should instead tour all the libraries and book stores and refile these books under fairy tales.

**pseudolus** · 08-05-2013, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Umbuku

Agreed.

They should instead tour all the libraries and book stores and refile these books under fairy tales.

Yes. Sorry, I forgot that Pope Al gore has told us that the science is settled and that no one is allowed to disagree with his version of events lest it stops him and his ilk making billions and the governments of the world subtly making billions in tax from this charade which is very clever because people pay up and think it is a good thing.... as their money is spent on wars. well done. You must be very proud.

**Umbuku** · 08-05-2013, 09:40 AM

The science is as settled as that for evolution theory.

Debating it with non-professionals on a Thai ex-pat forum is not of any interest to me.

**TonyBKK** · 09-05-2013, 10:51 AM

The Keeling Curve tells us how much CO2 is in the air. It's about to break 400 parts per million. To put that in perspective, scroll down. The fourth one is the most eye opening.
This is what it looked like over the last 2 years. See, it doesn't look so bad.

If we zoom out, it looks a little bit more intimidating. But still, we've had major shifts in climate change over the millenium.

That's a little more disconcerting, but we've had climate change cycles for millions of years.

Yes, that looks a little scarier, but seriously, 200,000 years ago the same thing happened. Here's a chart of the last 800,000 years.

Can you see the problem here?

**TonyBKK** · 09-05-2013, 11:03 AM

The Overview Effect-

A cognitive shift in awareness reported by some astronauts and cosmonauts during spaceflight, often while viewing the Earth from orbit or from the lunar surface.

It refers to the experience of seeing firsthand the reality of the Earth in space, which is immediately understood to be a tiny, fragile ball of life, hanging in the void, shielded and nourished by a paper-thin atmosphere. From space, the astronauts tell us, national boundaries vanish, the conflicts that divide people become less important, and the need to create a planetary society with the united will to protect this "pale blue dot" becomes both obvious and imperative.

The Overview Effect-

**pseudolus** · 10-05-2013, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by Umbuku

Debating it with non-professionals on a Thai ex-pat forum is not of any interest to me.

So are you make believing that you are one of the "scientists" earning a living from this charade then? Made any nice models recently?

**MrG** · 10-05-2013, 08:15 AM

Tony posts with science, facts, anaysis--something that is open to dispute in like terms.
Psuedo responds with empty accusations and schoolyard rhetoric that means nothing except to him.

Keep up the good work, Tony.

**Umbuku** · 10-05-2013, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by pseudolus

So are you make believing that you are one of the "scientists" earning a living from this charade then? Made any nice models recently?

I'm a geologist and I work for a state government authority regulating the use of groundwater in a recently opened up coal seam gas field. So, only incidentally related in that climatology is a field of study within geoscience. I do follow and read all I can on the topic out of interest, which is why I read this thread.

**Boon Mee** · 11-05-2013, 12:59 PM

Did you know that Kangaroo Scrotums are the new victims of Global Warming?

Climate change is a huge concern for many, many reasons: the ice caps are melting, droughts are sweeping the world, and mega-hurricanes are striking cities that have never before had to weather such storms. But it’s only recently that climate change has threatened Australia’s hilarious but substantial kangaroo nutsack trade. The hopping marsupials’ scrotums, which are crafted into souvenir bottle-openers and key rings, have made manufacturer John Kreuger, hereby known (by me) as the King of Ballsacks, hundreds of thousands of dollars.

**Mid** · 11-05-2013, 02:53 PM

Scientist says CO2 levels reach 'dangerous territory'
May 11, 2013

Washington - US government scientists who monitor carbon dioxide in the atmosphere from Hawaii said Friday the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is the highest it has been in millions of years.

The amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has steadily risen from 317 parts per million in 1958, when measurements began, to 400, according to the CO2 monitoring programme at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography.

Scientists believe the last time CO2 levels were at the 400 parts per million level was 2 to 4 million years ago. Sea levels during that period were up to 131 feet higher.

"We’re moving into dangerous territory," Ralph Keeling, who runs the programme, told CBS News. He believes efforts to curb carbon dioxide emissions have failed and some impacts of climate change are irreversible.

"There are lots of threats to human beings in these changes. We don’t know exactly how big but it’s very unlikely that we’re going to get through this without major turmoil," he said.

Most scientists believe the burning of fossil fuels is causing a rapid rise in carbon dioxide levels. This greenhouse gas traps heat, changes weather patterns and raises sea levels.

nationmultimedia.com

and the hits just keep coming , whilst some fiddle like Nero , and amuse themselves with Kangaroo scrotum .

**S Landreth** · 12-05-2013, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by Mid

'dangerous territory'

NOAA reported Friday that the daily mean concentration of CO2 in the air around Mauna Loa, Hawaii, surpassed 400 parts per million this week:

Climate Sensitivity Stunner: Last Time CO2 Levels Hit 400 Parts Per Million The Arctic Was 14°F Warmer!

This new paper is just the latest to suggest the Arctic will warm much faster than the models have suggested. For instance, back in 2006, scientists analyzed deep marine sediments to understand the Paleocene Eocene thermal maximum, a brief period some 55 million years ago of “widespread, extreme climatic warming that was associated with massive atmospheric greenhouse gas input.” That Nature study (subs. req’d) found Arctic temperatures almost beyond imagination–above 23°C (74°F)–temperatures more than 18°F warmer than climate models had predicted when applied to this period. The three dozen authors conclude that existing climate models are missing crucial feedbacks that can significantly amplify polar warming.

Clearly our climate models don’t do a good job of explaining what’s happening in the Arctic right now:

Arctic sea ice is melting much, much faster than even the best climate models had projected (actual observations in red). The reason is most likely unmodeled amplifying feedbacks. The image (from Climate Crocks via Arctic Sea Ice Blog) comes from a 2007 GRL research paper by Stroeve et al.

Given that the Arctic is already losing ice several decades faster than any major climate model had projected, we should expect that the permafrost — which contains twice as much carbon as the atmosphere currently does — will also go faster than the models suggest.

**JetsetBkk** · 13-05-2013, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by S Landreth

Originally Posted by Mid

'dangerous territory'

NOAA reported Friday that the daily mean concentration of CO2 in the air around Mauna Loa, Hawaii, surpassed 400 parts per million this week:

Looks more like a fault in the measuring equipment to me. But, hey, you guys keep on with your nonsense.

**pseudolus** · 13-05-2013, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by S Landreth

Clearly our climate models don’t do a good job of explaining what’s happening in the Arctic right now:

Got any models for the Antarctic?

**DrAndy** · 13-05-2013, 02:15 PM

yes

**Boon Mee** · 13-05-2013, 03:00 PM

It's the middle of the month of May and we find that huge ice sheets are pushed ashore at a Minnesota lake, creeping up to people's doorsteps...

Return Of The Glaciers

**S Landreth** · 13-05-2013, 05:56 PM

Climate change 'will make hundreds of millions homeless'

It is increasingly likely that hundreds of millions of people will be displaced from their homelands in the near future as a result of global warming. That is the stark warning of economist and climate change expert Lord Stern following the news last week that concentrations of carbon dioxide in our atmosphere had reached a level of 400 parts per million (ppm).

Massive movements of people are likely to occur over the rest of the century because global temperatures are likely to rise to by up to 5C because carbon dioxide levels have risen unabated for 50 years, said Stern, who is head of the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change.

"When temperatures rise to that level, we will have disrupted weather patterns and spreading deserts," he said. "Hundreds of millions of people will be forced to leave their homelands because their crops and animals will have died. The trouble will come when they try to migrate into new lands, however. That will bring them into armed conflict with people already living there. Nor will it be an occasional occurrence. It could become a permanent feature of life on Earth."

The news that atmospheric carbon dioxide levels have reached 400ppm has been seized on by experts because that level brings the world close to the point where it becomes inevitable that it will experience a catastrophic rise in temperatures. Scientists have warned for decades of the danger of allowing industrial outputs of carbon dioxide to rise unchecked.

Instead, these outputs have accelerated. In the 1960s, carbon dioxide levels rose at a rate of 0.7ppm a year. Today, they rise at 2.1ppm, as more nations become industrialised and increase outputs from their factories and power plants. The last time the Earth's atmosphere had 400ppm carbon dioxide, the Arctic was ice-free and sea levels were 40 metres higher.

The prospect of Earth returning to these climatic conditions is causing major alarm. As temperatures rise, deserts will spread and life-sustaining weather patterns such as the North Indian monsoon could be disrupted. Agriculture could fail on a continent-wide basis and hundreds of millions of people would be rendered homeless, triggering widespread conflict.

There are likely to be severe physical consequences for the planet. Rising temperatures will shrink polar ice caps – the Arctic's is now at its lowest since records began – and so reduce the amount of solar heat they reflect back into space. Similarly, thawing of the permafrost lands of Alaska, Canada and Russia could release even more greenhouse gases, including methane, and further intensify global warming.

____________________________

Global Estimates 2012: People displaced by disasters (13 May 2013)
Publication Date: 13 May 2013

The Global Estimates report reveals that 32.4 million people were forced to flee their homes in 2012 by disasters such as floods, storms and earthquakes. While Asia and west and central Africa bore the brunt, 1.3 million were displaced in rich countries, with the USA particularly affected.

98% of all displacement in 2012 was related to climate- and weather-related events, with flood disasters in India and Nigeria accounting for 41% of global displacement in 2012. In India, monsoon floods displaced 6.9 million, and in Nigeria 6.1 million people were newly displaced. While over the past five years 81% of global displacement has occurred in Asia, in 2012 Africa had a record high for the region of 8.2 million people newly displaced, over four times more than in any of the previous four years.

IDMC : Internal Displacement Monitoring Centre | About Us | Global Estimates 2012: People displaced by disasters

**pseudolus** · 13-05-2013, 06:10 PM

luckily the bankers will be very rich though and ambivalent. Hoorah for climate scam carbon tax and trading.

**MrG** · 14-05-2013, 07:45 AM

This from a site called Skeptical Science.

Posted on 15 August 2010 by John Cook

Skeptical Science is based on the notion that science by its very nature is skeptical. Genuine skepticism means you don't take someone's word for it but investigate for yourself. You look at all the facts before coming to a conclusion. In the case of climate science, our understanding of climate comes from considering the full body of evidence.

In contrast, climate skepticism looks at small pieces of the puzzle while neglecting the full picture. Climate skeptics vigorously attack any evidence for man-made global warming yet uncritically embrace any argument, op-ed, blog or study that refutes global warming. If you began with a position of climate skepticism then cherrypick the data that supports your view while fighting tooth and nail against any evidence that contradicts that position, I'm sorry but that's not genuine scientific skepticism.

So the approach of Skeptical Science is as follows. It looks at the many climate skeptic arguments, exposes how they focus on small pieces of the puzzle and then puts them in their proper context by presenting the full picture. The skeptic arguments are listed by popularity (eg - how often each argument appears in online articles). For the more organised mind, they're also sorted into taxonomic categories.

A great site, if you're into it. Keeps it clear and fair, easy enough for the not-scientifically-inclined crowd (though probably pointless for the tin-hat brigade.)

http://www.skepticalscience.com/

**ENT** · 14-05-2013, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Umbuku

Originally Posted by pseudolus

So are you make believing that you are one of the "scientists" earning a living from this charade then? Made any nice models recently?

I'm a geologist and I work for a state government authority regulating the use of groundwater in a recently opened up coal seam gas field. So, only incidentally related in that climatology is a field of study within geoscience. I do follow and read all I can on the topic out of interest, which is why I read this thread.

Good man.
I did geology, earth and ocean/climatology studies and marine biology as part of my anth. studies.
I got seriously interested in geo-physics and seismology. Preparing for my next Asia survey.

**ENT** · 14-05-2013, 07:56 AM

^^ Good article, sound judgement. Thanks MrG.

**S Landreth** · 16-05-2013, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by MrG

A great site, if you're into it. Keeps it clear and fair, easy enough for the not-scientifically-inclined crowd (though probably pointless for the tin-hat brigade.)

http://www.skepticalscience.com/

It is a great site which I have used here before. Here’s another copy and paste from Skeptical Science.

A new survey of over 12,000 peer-reviewed climate science papers by our citizen science team at Skeptical Science has found a 97% consensus in the peer-reviewed literature that humans are causing global warming.

Skeptical Science Study Finds 97% Consensus on Human-Caused Global Warming in the Peer-Reviewed Literature

related to the article above,....

the consensus project

**blue** · 16-05-2013, 04:55 PM

**pseudolus** · 16-05-2013, 05:22 PM

^^ And?
Granting you your wish and for this moment buying into the trendy gang and believing that the world needs to be cold and not hot, and that Co2 is to blame etc, WHAT THE FUCK do you think is the right thing to do? All the people the climate huggers cling to believe that allowing pollution to continue but tax them and allow people to trade credits is the best idea when in reality all it is doing to creating a new way for bankers to get rich and government to tax money from people.

What are you doing about it? Aside from banging on about it? The more you blow this trumpet the more money the bankers and corporations make from it.

**MrG** · 17-05-2013, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Granting you your wish and for this moment buying into the trendy gang and believing that the world needs to be cold and not hot, and that Co2 is to blame etc,

Now that you have conceded the point that global warming is real and we are the cause, you move on to...

Originally Posted by pseudolus

All the people the climate huggers cling to believe that allowing pollution to continue but tax them and allow people to trade credits is the best idea when in reality all it is doing to creating a new way for bankers to get rich and government to tax money from people.

First of all, it's not true that most people who believe that we are to blame for the climate warming believe that cap trading and other maneuvers are the right way to do anything about it. I'll grant you that that is an example of people making money on it, but it's not the tree huggers; it's the same Wall Street bandits that want to keep everything in place so they can play both ends and make even more money.

Originally Posted by pseudolus

What are you doing about it? Aside from banging on about it? The more you blow this trumpet the more money the bankers and corporations make from it.

Tree huggers can't afford to buy Senators and Congrressmen. A trumpet is all we can afford, but a trumpet call is how it starts.

**TonyBKK** · 17-05-2013, 10:21 AM

What if it's a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?

Good question innit?

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