Thread: Any doubts about Climate Change?

Newton didn't invent bullets. He sat in his study and invented the calculus. Someone then came along and used it for a more worldly purpose. Likewise, Alan Turing didn't dream up the Turing Machine because he had his eye on the patent for Office 2010 and Mendel didn't sit in his garden fannying about with peas because he wanted to corner the market in Round-Up Ready Soy. These are scientific propositions which, in different ways, are true or false (or useful or useless) because of something about the way they describe the world, not because of some personal characteristic of the people who came up the ideas or because some handy invention (or not, in the case of GM food and bullets) is spun off from them.

That said, the role of Al Gore (and even more so with that twat from U2) in this is really nothing like Newton, Turing or Mendel. What you're 'arguing' is more analogous with saying calculus is bollocks because your high school teacher used it to cover for abusing the boy with Asperger's.

And the fact the world has done nothing about climate change - obviously - doesn't mean it's false. If an alcoholic keeps drinking, does that make the doctor wrong? Of course not. It's another absurdity but I've seen enough of these outbursts of religious fundamentalism to realise that the problem isn't that denialists lack the relevant facts; it's that they lack either the relevant cognitive skills or they lack the relevant motivation to use those skills and I've no idea how to go about compensating for that deficit. There's no knock-down proof against a conspiracy theory (that's just what makes them a conspiracy theory) - what's needed is the right grasp of reality and no facts can ever argue you into that.

No - I am saying that in 1991, it was decided to use climate change as a method to instil fear into the world, and generate profits for the banks once the cold war ended. All the rest is window dressing.

1991 - The Club of Rome (they have a website, have a look), said that they needed a replacement for the cold war. Threat of Climate change was the one they decide upon, and off into the history books it went, telling us we are killing the world. Back then is was global warming but on the 12th year of temperatures dropping, they changed the name.

It's a con. If you do no see it, go and research yourself actually what is happening as a result of this fiasco (aside from the banks making billions, most likely trillions now, from the carbon credit trading scam).

Just to put you out of your misery, here is what Kyoto and the "alleged" all out attack on firms harming the environment has actually achieved.

Analysis: Has the Kyoto protocol worked? | Environment | The Guardian

Figures released by the UN last month suggest the world is on track to meet its Kyoto targets for greenhouse gases - carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, sulphur hexafluoride, hydrofluorocarbons and perfluorocarbons. Emissions by the 40 industrialised nations that agreed binding cuts in pollution are down 5% on 1990 levels. But the drop has little to do with climate policies: the bulk of the decline is down to the collapse of the Soviet Union and the subsequent economic decline in eastern Europe in the 1990s. Without these so-called "economies in transition", greenhouse gas emissions have grown by almost 10% since 1990.

What is the Kyoto protocol and has it made any difference? | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Under Kyoto, industrialised nations pledged to cut their yearly emissions of carbon, as measured in six greenhouse gases, by varying amounts, averaging 5.2%, by 2012 as compared to 1990. That equates to a 29% cut in the values that would have otherwise occurred. However, the protocol didn't become international law until more than halfway through the 1990–2012 period. By that point, global emissions had risen substantially. Some countries and regions, including the European Union, were on track by 2011 to meet or exceed their Kyoto goals, but other large nations were falling woefully short. And the two biggest emitters of all – the United States and China – churned out more than enough extra greenhouse gas to erase all the reductions made by other countries during the Kyoto period. Worldwide, emissions soared by nearly 40% from 1990 to 2009, according to the Netherlands Environmental Assessment Agency.

Up 40%. In the time that Climate Change has been the world largest threat, emissions have soared by nearly 40%.

Now have you seen how the world reacts with Avian Flu and the like? It reacts straight away and knocks it on the head, until it find China is lying about it again, and then they have to sort it out. If it was a big threat...they would sort it out.

Meanwhile, we see this.





It's fraud. It's a scam. It manipulation of the people of the world who generally try to do the right thing, replacing the money making power generating cold war with something even more pernicious.

^ The problem is that they can search all they like, but all they will ever come up with is higher emissions being sent out there, and the only drop came because of the collapse of the soviet union.

If it was true, they would do something about it. After all, they have invaded countries for small things, and yet the safety of the war is not a good enough reason?

The only thing to come from the whole shebang is carbon tax and the platform to trade the credits. Both make massive amounts of money for the PRIVATE world bank, and the bankers running the trading.

It's a great ruse though, al the pro people (90% of the world I reckon) are spending all their times "proving" that it is happening and "fighting and defeating" people who call it as being shit. They never dare to think if anything is actually happening though; if emissions are being cut, what are the governments doing. They just assume that it is all going to Kyoto plan and they are winning.

Must be quite a shock to realise how diverted their attention has been from the scam that nothing it changing, it is getting worse, and no one is actually doing anything about it, because they know it is all a scam.

Wake up dumbasses and smell the cover up.

Adventure-journal.com?

Are you serious?

How about the one I posted that said they had increased by 40%

What is the Kyoto protocol and has it made any difference? | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Must be quite a shock to realise how diverted their attention has been from the scam that nothing it changing, it is getting worse, and no one is actually doing anything about it, because they know it is all a scam.

You are so far out of your depth. Have you ever read a book on climate change? A science book?

Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa intends to sign two agreements that will get the city off of coal-generated electricity entirely by 2025, according to reports flagged on Monday by the Sierra Club. Currently, the the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power (LADWP) relies on two coal-fired power plants — Intermountain Power Plant in Delta, Utah and the Navajo Generating Station in northern Arizona — for about 39 percent of its power.

Villaraigosa made the announcement last week at a green cities event sponsored by UCLA’s Institute of the Environment and Sustainability, just days after the “Forward On Climate” rallies brought tens of thousands of people out across the country to protest both the Keystone XL pipeline and the general lack of policy momentum to fight climate change — including 2,000 protestors in front of Los Angeles City Hall.

no one is actually doing anything about it

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Oh, and just how exactly do they know the carbon levels of 400,000 years ago?

Mate - I know you are so completely deceived, and are one of the fools who believe Gores statement "the science is settled", but seriously...being patronising and asking if I had read a book, and daring to say that 400,000 yrs ago atmospheric carbon levels are definitely known (what the fuck? was the climate change Lobby lucky enough for cavemen to take air samples and keep them locked away with no interference? Or are they making assumptions?) just makes you look as desperate as Scam Gore does.

Simple facts - It's the sun.


Want real proof?

Well, unless the fact that Mars icecap has melted, and Saturn's previously Ice Moon has melted into a mass of slush puppy is just coincidentally happening at the same time as "climate change" is making cash for the Bankers, then the case against it is actually proven.

Or do you seriously contend that all this other galactic melting at the same time has nothing to do with the action here on earth?

Oh dear. I eagerly await your reply once you have studied your Reverend Gore Testaments again

CO2 and warming lock-step in last Ice Age
12:52pm March 1, 2013

Levels of carbon dioxide rose hand-in-hand with warming at the end of the last Ice Age, according to a study that deals a blow to climate sceptics.

French researchers say they have answered a riddle that has perplexed scientists.

The question arises from bubbles of atmospheric air, trapped in cores of ice drilled from Antarctica that date back to the last deglaciation, which ended some 10,000 years ago.

These tiny bubbles are closely scrutinised, for they contain carbon dioxide (CO2), the principal greenhouse gas behind global warming.

The higher or lower the CO2, according to the conventional benchmark, the greater or lower the atmospheric temperature.

The anomaly is this: the CO2 in the bubbles do not correspond to the level of warming indicated by the surrounding snowfall of that time.

Climate sceptics argued this showed the CO2 rose after Earth's atmosphere warming.

It would imply global warming today may come, at least in part, from natural means - not from carbon emissions from fossil fuels as the scientific consensus maintains.

Writing in the US journal, Science, a team led by French glaciologist Frederic Parrenin looked at ice from five deep drilling expeditions in Antarctica.

By analysing the isotopic composition of the nitrogen gas in these samples, the researchers said they were able to filter out the confusing signal from the data.

During the last deglaciation, the temperature rose by 19C while at the same time CO2 levels in the atmosphere rose by about 100 parts per million, they said.

The discrepancy comes from the physical process by which CO2 bubbles are formed in successive layers of snow.

Further work will be carried out on different ice samples taken from different eras to see whether this result holds.

CO2 and warming lock-step in last Ice Age

^ Seriously - trapped in ice? Between snow? Isn't Co2 heavier than air? Wouldn't it be even a suggestion that as this ice was not formed floating about in the wind but when it was on the deck...isn't that worth a note in this miracle french study that luckily debunks anyone saying the climategate is a scam.



now please explain how our pumping out of Co2 is melting Mars ice cap and saturn's moons as well then. Can't wait to hear this.

A bit shrill in your defiance aren't you.

Do you stamp your feet while posting as well?

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Seriously - trapped in ice? Between snow? Isn't Co2 heavier than air?

Never heard of the Vostok ice cores then...

Originally Posted by Umbuku

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Seriously - trapped in ice? Between snow? Isn't Co2 heavier than air?

Never heard of the Vostok ice cores then...

Just more prove of disconnection from reality. Research on ice cores is quite well known to anybody with interest in climate research.

I keep forgetting that the SCIENCE IS DECIDED. Sorry. Of course, any evidence FOR man made climate change can never be discussed or challenged. I am therefore to be dubbed a CLIMATE CHANGE DENIER- ---- -OHHH just like holocaust denial - throw him to the wolves. Just stick up stock phrases such as "vostok Ice Cores" and sneer a bit, try to be condescending and completely dismiss anything else because

AL GORE HAS SPOKEN.

Shame is though, he has not spoken about why MARS ICECAP IS MELTING and the Saturn Moons Or that Pluto is getting quite toasty as well now. Nor have you all as well. Coincidence?

^
Gee whiz, wonder what the common denominator here is?

Camels used to live in the Arctic,
reveal scientists (although it was
3½million years ago when it
was at least 14C warmer)

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Originally Posted by Takeovers

About Mars. As Mars revolves around the sun in a much more elliptic trajectory than earth it experiences more variety in temperatures. Also the Mars poles shrink and increase a lot during the seasons

As for this? What a load of shit this is.

Ok - I will believe you because AL GORE TELLS US TO BOW TO YOUR SCIENCE.

Is this the same for Saturn's moons then? How about Pluto getting hotter? Is that the same thing or are you going to make up some other shit for that and hope that claimate gang arrogance will brush it aside?

THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED - SUBMIT TO ALL GORES BILLIONS IN THE BANK.

For one I don't make up things, I just happen to know some stuff.

About Pluto from Wikipedia.

Pluto's surface has changed between 1994 and 2002-3: the northern polar region has brightened and the southern hemisphere darkened.[78] Pluto's overall redness has also increased substantially between 2000 and 2002.[78] These rapid changes are probably related to seasonal condensation and sublimation of portions of Pluto's atmosphere, amplified by Pluto's extreme axial tilt and high orbital eccentricity.[78]

And what is your obsession with Al Gore? We are talking about Climate Change, not Al Gore or sleazy slime balls in general.

I have no doubt that Global warming is happening. I have no problem believing it is man made in the main.

We humans are in plague proportions on this planet - the short answer thereby - solution is to reduce the population - any good ideas how we could/should achieve this?

Originally Posted by Takeovers

The problem is You are throwing us to the wolves by denying that something needs to be done.

Not really - climate change is happening; no one denies that, but it's not happening because of us. settle back and enjoy the ride.

However, I more subscribe to the idea that water pollution is a far greater issue than air pollution. No one is really paying attention to that, and this is one of the biggest problems with this jack ass gore - he is completely missing the point.

A sad picture from missouri that shows man's effect on the local environment. What a wonderful world!

Originally Posted by Imminent

A sad picture from missouri that shows man's effect on the local environment. What a wonderful world!

I don't try to deny the devastating effect water polution has, including both chemical pollution and plastic waste. It ought to be stopped.

But this looks to me like a photoshop job. I don't believe such a plastic sheet can stop the growth of a turtle.

Originally Posted by Imminent

A sad picture from missouri that shows man's effect on the local environment. What a wonderful world!

Over fishing - dumping in seas / on land and into the water table - so so many things that actually are easily addressable within this world that we turn a blind eye to, and yet all this shit about climate change. Even if the Crook Gore stuff is all true (which is isn't), by there numbers is would take ZERO carbon emissions for 23 years to reduce the temp by 1 degree. That's no emissions, not planting trees to pretend you are cancelling it out. The only thing that comes from climategate is Gore and his banking buddies get richer.

2012 Rise In CO2 Levels Second-Highest In 54 Years

WASHINGTON — The amount of heat-trapping carbon dioxide in the air jumped dramatically in 2012, making it very unlikely that global warming can be limited to another 2 degrees as many global leaders have hoped, new federal figures show.

Scientists say the rise in CO2 reflects the world's economy revving up and burning more fossil fuels, especially in China.

Carbon dioxide levels jumped by 2.67 parts per million since 2011 to total just under 395 parts per million, says Pieter Tans, who leads the greenhouse gas measurement team for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

That's the second highest rise in carbon emissions since record-keeping began in 1959. The measurements are taken from air samples captured away from civilization near a volcano in Mauna Loa, Hawaii.

More coal-burning power plants, especially in the developing world, are the main reason emissions keep going up – even as they have declined in the U.S. and other places, in part through conservation and cleaner energy.

At the same time, plants and the world's oceans which normally absorb some carbon dioxide, last year took in less than they do on average, says John Reilly, co-director of Joint Program on the Science and Policy of Global Change. Plant and ocean absorption of carbon varies naturally year to year.

But, Tans tells The Associated Press the major factor is ever-rising fossil fuel burning: "It's just a testament to human influence being dominant."

_________________________________

Annual Mean Global Carbon Dioxide Growth Rates: Trends in Carbon Dioxide

_________________________________

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Originally Posted by Imminent

A sad picture from missouri that shows man's effect on the local environment. What a wonderful world!

I don't try to deny the devastating effect water polution has, including both chemical pollution and plastic waste. It ought to be stopped.

Peanut's Story

^ Good news, then. More C02 for trees and other plants to grow from.