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I can only assume you're fucking kidding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
The orange turd and his paid-for lackey ambushed a world leader live on TV like they were Jeremy Kyle.
I don't think they could have brought more humiliation on the country if they tried.
They're a total embarrassment and the US is a laughing stock because of them.
yes - and I do not think putin is going to be as happy as everyone thinksQuote:
Originally Posted by pickel
putin would have wanted Zelensky to be cowered and relenting to the demands - now he has a debacle which has blown up and highlighted the trump fealty to him
I don't think putins war machine is in a good place at the moment and he would have been counting on this meeting to give him some relief - NK's ammunition supplies are keeping him afloat right now , but they are not limitless
europe has been increasing production every month and I feel the war passed a tipping point in the last couple of weeks.
You sir are a fucking idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
If only we could get a few republicans to stand up to Trump and tell him to his face what a total ass and phuck up he is. Right now all the repubs suck up to him. That has to end.Quote:
Originally Posted by pickel
As an American, what I saw today was the most appalling behavior of a President and Vice president in my life. It left me feeling sick, and I still am.Quote:
Originally Posted by malmomike77
We are heading into the most unstable time of the industrial era, make no doubt. I have already said it, but I will say it again, the UK and EU had better prepare for war because it is coming.Quote:
Originally Posted by malmomike77
Canada should prepare too. Because Dictators always invade their neighbors first.Quote:
Originally Posted by bsnub
The US has been by far Ukraine's biggest financial and military backer to date
(That 'Quote' function isn't working for me, again.)
Loops, I think you are listening too much to Trump. His constant bleating about $350 Billion doesn't match statements from the Pentagon who reported about $100 Billion worth of aid to Ukraine, although that number does not count the soft costs of administration within the US.
Meanwhile, EU assistance has topped $145 Billion to date, plus another $54 Billion in future commitments.
EU Assistance to Ukraine (in U.S. Dollars) | EEAS
The UK is not counted in the EU number, thank you Brexit idiots. I cannot find the UK number, which is very significant.
Europe's total support is double the US's.
The US has contributed greatly. Trump's claim to be Ukraine's biggest source of support is, like so many other things he says, simply a lie.
Yeah, vulgar Sicilian hicks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe 90
"Vulgar" really is the operative word here.
Unbelievable.Quote:
Originally Posted by nidhogg
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsnub
Indeed. As Nid suggested I would imagine that Putin really does have those hinted at videos of hookers pissing into a nappy wearing Trumps mouth.
Putin is in no position to start a fight with Europe at the moment, and I cant see Trump being in power in 5 years time. Common sense may indeed prevail in the USA. But the world is changing and the EU is almost broken as an economic power, self inflicted net zero madness, woke immigration and excessive human rights idiocy are seeing to that, and pressure from Putin and China can accelerate its decline without even firing one bullet. Thankfully the UK is not aligned with the EU anymore, but Trump has us over a barrel.
We are in the age of the dictator, hardly a surprise though after years of virtue signalling weak liberal kow towing to activist pressure groups that ignore the majority and seek to dominate the narrative. The majority have had enough and swung the pendulum right back to the limit.
I was prepared to give Trump a chance, but his treatment of Zelensky has irrevocably changed my mind.
As has been said, Putin seems to have some power over him.
But Trump and Zelensky have history.
Look up the Paul Manafort debacle and you can see where Trumps longstanding grudge against him originated.
the reality needs more publicity - how much of this aid was in equipment that was to be decommissioned ? and what was the cost saving of not having to pay for decommissioning ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shutree
Correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by taxexile
And the main thing the majority in the UK did was kick the tories out.
Tories who oversaw rocketing illegal immigration after leaving the EU.
You're making about as much sense and communicating as much truth as Trump.
The tories deserved to get kicked out, the vote was anti tory, and not pro labour. If Stoma wants to get the electorate on his side, he will need to forego a lot of his utopian leftist nonsense and adopt the sort of sensible center right policies that served the true conservative party in the past.
nor should we be surprised over the return of of the world to unrestrained power politics, this was the default setting of international relations throughout recorded history. in the world we are entering, our diplomats will need once again to master the ruthless lessons of that heritage.
kennedy 60 years ago complained that the americans were paying too much to support europe, and every president since then has said the same.over 60 years later, trump is fulfilling kennedy’s threat and we have no right to be indignant.
we will need to pay up, and not with increased taxes, but with a reduction in the benefit system budget and the suicidal net zero costs that only enrich the chinese and their auto industries whilst imposing heavy extra costs and penalties on our industries and taxpayers.
trump has many faults, but drill baby drill is not one of them, the uk could also be mostly self sufficient in energy if we only accessed what lies under our feet instead of paying billions to import gas (and woodchip to burn to make gas) its insane!
The only version I watched was the first link posted, which was clippedQuote:
Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
President Trump - 2nd Term
I have not watched the full meeting yet.
From the clip I saw it looked like both parties were just running through their standard pre-amble outlining their current thoughts with no conflict in the air.
It looked like the moment where Zelensky said 'Can I as a question' was where it escalated. It seemed like a normal diplomatic discussion up to that point.
I don't see how that was Zelensky being ambushed. It seemed more like ill advised escalation of the debate during what was supposed to be the usual press gallery photo shoot and handshake.
The contentious parts of the discussion should have been had behind closed doors. The guest escalating it in public at the press gallery does seem disrespectful of hosts and if anybody got ambushed it looked like Trump and Vance did.
But, like I say, I have not had a chance to view the whole meeting yet, although I did find a link. I will watch the full meeting later and if it looks different I am happy to revise my view of the event.
It was not a good outcome for anyone bar the enemies of democracy like Putin.
Russia may be weakened but it has gained and likley to keep much of Donbas and all of Crimea .
Putin will welcome a cease fire to re arm reequip and if ther is no US spy in sky and Intel he can easily resume devouring more of E Europe at hus leisure no wonder Sweden and Finland were frightened into NATO and Ukraine Moldova Georgians Armenians desperate to get under the safety blanket.
As I see it two risks to Europe firstly its teetering ecomonies really do double/triple in many cases their defence outlays, bring in mandatory conscription reducing cosumption and production of no defence material and while not decalring USA will leave , the real NATO guarantee article 5 hollow. From comments here it appears UK subs are useless without US support /permission?
That leaves EU with only French navy as a backstop. This may lead other Nato members to desire theor own nukes esp Germany that can afford it, Poland that would like it and Turkiye that may not have the resources now to go that way in the future its a third of a million man army by far the largest in Europe , assuming the PRC doesn't join the N Koreans.
The workd has changed and NATO has shown a slow niggardly response to Putins aggressions not just Ukraine but under sea, murders in London, Salisbury etc. If a bully is not stopped he will continue. This us a very dark moment never has the removal of an autocratic US president seemed so beneficial to democracy
his lays things out
Countries That Have Committed the Most Aid to Ukraine
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...aid-to-ukraine
You are forgetting about the Australian military In both incursions Australia compiled with our allies. We can't trust this kunt to.Quote:
Originally Posted by malmomike77
Good pointQuote:
Originally Posted by baldrick
I am in complete agreement taxQuote:
Originally Posted by taxexile
Quote:
Originally Posted by malmomike77
nothing that has been provided has been recent vintage except for intelligenceQuote:
The U.S. is flexing its military might, committing weapons and equipment valued at close to $71 billion
Here is the linkQuote:
Originally Posted by Looper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3WD9CUNgEE
First weird moment is at 12 minutes when Zelensky belittles the US contribution by comparing it unfavourably with the European contribution. This was a strange undiplomatic move and ruffled the comfortable flow of the press presentation.
Trump then relieves the pressure a minute later with some humour claiming to be far superior to Washington and Lincoln. He is actually making fun of his own famous ego here, so he does have a sense of humour.
Then at 14 Trump makes a mistake by offering sympathy for Russian lives lost as well as Ukrainian which understandably riles Zelenskyy
Then there is nothing notable for half an hour. Trump even said at 29 minutes that US was committed to NATO.
Trump then makes a strange comment about Zelenskys hatred of Putin at 39 minutes which ruffled Zelensky a bit.
JD pipes up at 40 minutes but says nothing exceptional and Zelensky says 'can I ask you?' and then he presses JD hard on what kind of diplomacy will work
JD then calls him disrespectful. It was bit premature of JD to censure Zelensky and it just spirals between the pair of them from there where Zelensky does use what sounds like disrespectful language. Trump takes exception to Zelensky presuming to tell him that the US will feel pain in the future. Poor choice of words from Zelensky but it is not his first language. From there it goes nuclear. JDs (and later Trump's) assertion that Z should be thankful for the arms is pointless and avoidable salt in the wounds.
Hugely unfortunate sequence of events. I think diplomatic mistakes were made on both sides.
On a second viewing I think the situation is salvageable. I think as the junior partner Zelenksy needs to do the first bit of apologising which he seems to already be doing.
It was a mistake to have such a long press conference before such a delicate negotiation. If they had simply wrapped it up after 20 minutes and got down to negotiations on the deal in private this diplomatic catastrophe would not have happened.
The BBC says that US is by far the biggest donor of military support to UkraineQuote:
Originally Posted by Shutree
Ukraine weapons: What arms are the US, UK and other nations supplying?
^ There's also a video clip of Trump welcoming Zalensky at the door. The first thing Trump did was have a joke about Zalenksy's attire.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoVAS_gGoVk
^A member of the press asked a cheeky question during the session about Zelensky's lack of suit. A bit of a stupid question. Trump mediated the matter with good natured humour and Zelensky brushed it off.
The whole fiasco at the end could easily have been avoided and I think the reports of a disastrous rift in US-Euro relations as a result will prove to be overstated.
^^^ you are trying to wade through a child's tantrum, the sane world or what was before the orange moron got elected didn't start throwing its toys around in public. The only winners are the yellow scum and the war criminal, they must be loving this.
The sad fact is that as well as the wasted lives on all sides for no good reason thar a silly little man trying to make his mark on history there is the enormous waste of money and not a single country has the money to waste, its all borrowed and servicing that debt is paid with austerity and ultimately lives due to lack of investment in health and social support.
The whole thing is a travesty.
There's military support, and there's financial support. A lot of the military support was paid for years ago to American companies and was in storage, aging and due to be mothballed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
Take note Looper, when Trump says they've given 350 billion, he's lying. It's less than half of that. That riled Zelensky.
If you read Mike's link you can see what the numbers are based on a percentage of GDP too.
Quote:
The U.S. has committed 0.55% of its GDP toward Ukraine aid, which falls below the percentages committed by Germany (1.31%), the U.K. (0.93%) and Canada (0.67%).