Thread: The headbangers

an example of muslim people speaking out against the idiots, sort of.

this was published in today's paper page 1. and also online at The Jakarta Post - The Journal of Indonesia Today (but this link wont last long! )

Stars and a fiery sermon half a world away Jakarta has them in spades, but I needed to travel deep into the American Midwest to discover what I have been missing for some time.
I have a confession to make. To be honest, as a card-carrying Muslim I haven't participated in mandatory Friday prayers for some time.
There are many reasons for this, the main one being my distaste for drawn-out sermons that, over the years, have become a soapbox on which jihadists make their rallying cries for bigotry and calls for fundamentalism.
Once a week, we are subjected to a presentation from doomsday-scenario addicts who talk about the conspiracies behind all Muslim predicaments.
Deafened by fear-mongering and burn-in-hell-if-you-fail-to-heed-this calls, I decided to skip Friday prayers until just recently, when I arrived at a sleepy college town almost 100 kilometers west of Chicago.
After a mind-numbing, bone-crushing, spine-losing 22-hour succession of flights (during which I also saw something that has been missing after years of living under Jakarta's blinding lights -- stars hanging over a vast expanse of corn fields), I once again encountered that familiar scene.
To honor my host, who regularly participates in Friday prayers at the "Islamic House" (a medium-sized dwelling turned into a makeshift mosque that also serves as a center for Muslims to which they can also send their children for Sunday school), I decided to tag along.
Five steps into the mosque, I was greeted with the familiar tones of a sermon that I often heard at crowded Jakarta Friday prayers.
In well-polished English, the young preacher spoke earnestly about the plight of Muslims throughout the world due to Western oppression, be they in Iraq, Kashmir, Bosnia, Algeria or elsewhere. Indonesia, predictably, was off the list.
Midway through the sermon, he said something strikingly similar to what I had heard in Friday prayers in Jakarta: "If one Muslim is hurt, the whole Muslim world is also hurt."
The panacea for the plight of Muslims is the establishment of a world khilafah, the coming of God's kingdom, which would liberate oppressed Muslims.
He added it was a ripe moment for the establishment of the kingdom by referring to recent conferences on Muslim caliphates that have taken place in some Muslim countries.
The young preacher pointed out that the largest congregation took place in Jakarta, when, he said, 100,000 people attended a rally sponsored by an Indonesian hard-line organization, Hizbut Tahrir.
By sermon's end, he called for the sending of a Muslim army, akin to what Salahuddin al Ayyoubi did when he liberated Jerusalem from crusaders in 1100 A.D.
The young preacher was probably what Newsweek weekly described as someone with no connection to America and no affinity for its culture.
"This foreign-born imam ... is a scholar fresh off the plane from Lebanon, say, or Saudi Arabia," the magazine stated in its special report on Islam in America published last month.
The more unsettling fact was that, according to unofficial government estimates, at least 50 percent of American mosques might receive funding from foreign governments or institutions, mostly Saudi Arabia.
This, in spite of the fact that 40 percent of Americans believe Muslims in the U.S. are as loyal to the nation as they are to Islam; Muslims are one of the most affluent community groups and the most successfully integrated, Newsweek also reported.
Unlike fellow Muslims in Europe who live in insulated ghettos, most Muslims in America live in relative affluence alongside people from other religious beliefs and races.
I suppose those firebrand preachers could speak out so loudly partly because they were living in the land of free speech.
Anyway, it felt fine, in a slightly peculiar way, for me to start Friday prayers next to an African American who shook my hand firmly afterward.
-- M. Taufiqurrahman

Originally Posted by kingwilly

Originally Posted by Milkman

Originally Posted by Begbie

Hopefully Macha will read the above and see the error of his ways, converting to secularism.

The difference between us, IMHO is that Muslims are taught at a very early age to believe the Koran is the literal word of God. This makes for a very fixed mentality. Mainstream christains at least have no such illusions. Personally I feel that this makes most Muslims closed to debate. They generally only want to get their message across.

Yes, I've always had difficulty with the 'direct word from god' aspect.

It also means that there should not be two different interpretations of any passage in the Koran. But there are even more than two different interpretations of it.

Wouldn't god (allah) be very clear, allowing no confusion, disagreement, or misinterpretation, if this is his direct word.

Is that any different to the Catholic belief of the infallibility of the Popes word??

Yes, it is. The pope is infallible when pronouncing, ex-cathedra, on matters of faith and doctrine. This infallibility is very rarely used and an infallible pronouncement is a very big deal in the catholic church. It does not mean that his every word is infallible, only in rare, strictly-defined, circumstances.

^ so wot happened to purgatory or indulgences?

Start a new thread on the topic and I'll tell you. I'm still waiting for Macha's answers here

rhetorical question really.

but just pointing out that there exists some similarities between western religions and muslims....

what did u think of the jakarta post article?

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Start a new thread on the topic and I'll tell you. I'm still waiting for Macha's answers here

I'm still waiting for Macha's reds to the Wafa Sultan videos I posted. He was like machine gun Kelly last week redded me thrice in succession if I recall.

i,m outa here...this is the very reason all the bs in the world happens..my imaginary friend is better than yours>>> oh and oil...

Sorry for replying late. Been too busy as of late.
Anyway back to Bob's post.

I can tell that Shaykh Faris is a fuckwit. He's intentionally confusing two different situations.

The militants who are recruiting suicide bombers, mostly teenagers, are presenting verses of the Quran to benefit themselves. That's why I said, a few weeks ago, that Afghan children need education more than footies with flags on it. Educate them, as they are under your control now, and let them have the sense to differentiate good from bad.

If you go to far North-west frontier province of Pakistan (or interrior Punjab), you will find that literacy rate is next to nothing. We need to educated these people before the extremists get their hands on them.

With regards to the killings in Islam or the holy Quran, here's what I have got to say.

The best way to understand the holy Quran is to read the verses in their textual and historical context. To get better understanding of a verse, one must read a few verses before and a few after the verse he/she's trying to understand.

Here's one verse that is often taken out of context by Muslim bashers as well as the Islamic militants to justify their bull shit:

"And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter."

If you read the full verse, you'll find out that it is not what it looks like:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear God, and know that God is with those who restrain themselves". (The Quran 2.190-194)

Now tell me honestly does this verse, just one example, give free permisson to Muslims to kill anyone, anywhere?

Like I said, if one wants to understand the Quran he/she must read the verses with their textual and historical context.

These verses were revealed by God to the Prophet, at the time when Muslims were attacked by the non-Muslims of Makkah on a regular basis. They were frightening the Muslim community of Madinah. One may say using the contemporary jargon that there were constant terrorist attacks on Madinah and in this situation Muslims were given permission to fight back the "terrorist". These verses are not a permission for "terrorism" but they are a warning against the "terrorists." But even in these warnings you can see how much restraint and care is emphasized!

It is important that we study the religious texts in their proper context. When these texts are not read in their proper textual and historical contexts they are manipulated and distorted. It is true that some Muslims manipulate these verses for their own goals. But this is not only with Islamic texts, it is also true with the texts of other religions. I can quote dozens of verses from the Bible which seem very violent, if taken out from their historical context. These Biblical texts have been used by many violent Jewish and Christian groups. Crusaders used them against Muslims and Jews. Nazis used them against Jews. Recently Serbian Christians used them against Bosnian Muslims. Zionists are using them regularly against Palestinians.

Back to Islam, the prophet of Islam and the holy Quran. when Muslims state that Islam's a religion of peace they're not trying to prove something unreasonable or solve a crossword puzzle. Rather, they're just stating a fact backed by clear cut evidence and unquestionable proofs!

Mulims don't hate non-Muslims, be they Christian, Jews, Buddhist, Hindus or followers of any religion or no religion.

The holy Quran says this about Christians:

"Thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe ( to be ) those who say : Lo! We are Christians . That is because there are among them priests and monks , and because they are not proud". (The Quran 5.82)

Islam or the Quran does not advocate killing any innocent person regardless of his or her religion. The life of all human beings is sacrosanct according to the teachings of the Quran and the guidance of the Prophets.

The Quran says this about the prohibition of murder:

"Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom". (The Quran 6.151)

And God says in the Quran,

"Nor take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law)". (The Quran 17.33).

According to the Quran, killing any person without a just cause is as big a sin as killing the whole humanity and saving the life of one person is as good deed as saving the whole humanity.

"For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than man slaughter or corruption in the earth , it shall be as if be had killed all mankind , and whoso saveth the life of one , it shall be as if he had : saved the life of all mankind . Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs ( of God's sovereignty ) , but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth. (The Quran 5.32)

Hope this post answers some of the questions.

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by machangezi

Just post your questions/doubts about towel heads in here. I am sure you'll find a reasonable answer to every question.

Here's a question for you Macha.

As a practising Moslem yourself, what actions, sects, or fringe groups of your brethren in the Faith do you condemn?

I am a non practising Muslim, sir!

I condemn killings of innocents. I also condemn the actions of extremists, their way of presenting holy verses regardless of what sect/group they belong to.

My message as a Muslim, although non practising, is that we have many other important things to do in this short life than fighting/slaying each other.

Originally Posted by rtaxon

Give me a break Muslim lovers, 21 Virgins or whatever the number is will await you when you go to heaven when you blow up the Christian's etc.

What kind of A/H would believe that? They must have their heads buried in the sand like most Arabs have in the desert.

People like you make me sick. Credit for religious hatered goes to fuckwit instigaters like yourself. You need to learn a lot about Islam:

"Thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe ( to be ) those who say : Lo! We are Christians . That is because there are among them priests and monks , and because they are not proud". (The Quran 5.82)

Originally Posted by meepho

why do muslims [they all follow the koran, don't they?? ] kill each other in the thousands, let alone other religions.

Because some Western countries install puppets as their leaders which obviously results in misunderstanding that leads to street protests and ultimately killings.

Perhaps British divide n rule strategy eh?

Originally Posted by Milkman

Originally Posted by kingwilly

Originally Posted by Milkman

Originally Posted by Begbie

Hopefully Macha will read the above and see the error of his ways, converting to secularism.

The difference between us, IMHO is that Muslims are taught at a very early age to believe the Koran is the literal word of God. This makes for a very fixed mentality. Mainstream christains at least have no such illusions. Personally I feel that this makes most Muslims closed to debate. They generally only want to get their message across.

Yes, I've always had difficulty with the 'direct word from god' aspect.

It also means that there should not be two different interpretations of any passage in the Koran. But there are even more than two different interpretations of it.

Wouldn't god (allah) be very clear, allowing no confusion, disagreement, or misinterpretation, if this is his direct word.

Is that any different to the Catholic belief of the infallibility of the Popes word??

I don't know.

You tell me.

I have very little knowledge on the topic of the "Catholic belief in the infallibility of the Pope's word?"

Can you explain it, or provide a link?

Post no 27 on this thread and here for an in-depth explanation CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Infallibility

Is that any different to the Catholic belief of the infallibility of the Popes word??

is. The pope is infallible when pronouncing, ex-cathedra, on matters of faith and doctrine. This infallibility is very rarely used and an infallible pronouncement is a very big deal in the catholic church. It does not mean that his every word is infallible, only in rare, strictly-defined, circumstances.

Thank you for the reference to my question.

Is this infallibility in the actual Xtian Bible?

If not, who appoited the Pope to have this ability?

How and when is it used?

Who decides?

Originally Posted by macha

That's why I said, a few weeks ago, that Afghan children need education more than footies with flags on it. Educate them, as they are under your control now, and let them have the sense to differentiate good from bad.

I whole heartedly agree. Though team sport is an integral part of a balanced education. The important thing is to get the kids playing and away from the hypersensitive fukwit clerics.

I condemn killings of innocents.

Macha your so full of sh*t it is unbelieveable !!!!!!
YOU condemm killing of innocents and send me mails like "I think Hitler should have eliminated all of you". The joke is that I'am not even a jew, but do YOU care? You just get out your sword and swing it no matter who gets killed (like a real muslim). If you had any brains at all YOU should hate Hitler..maybe then there would have been NO Israel. But instead you condemm 6 million innocent people.
Muslims are very ill tempered because they think they have the answer with their numbskull book called the Koran. If you would only know how many muslims I have driven into a corner, like you, and gotten the same ill response. The true face of a muslims always comes out when you talk about his religion.
You post garbage like this ill idiotic Koran verse which describes your way of thinking:

If you read the full verse, you'll find out that it is not what it looks like:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear God, and know that God is with those who restrain themselves". (The Quran 2.190-194)

Well what does it look like?
This peace of garbage is meant for ill minded people like you. Who love nothing but themselves, and this idiot called Mohammed who had a massive ego, sexual appetite for children and a perverted bloodlust.
How many times does the word fight, kill, slaughter, reject, prohibit, oppressed occur in your garbage verse? This is what your whole HEAD-BANGER-KORAN is about...and nothing else. Oh I'am sorry I forgot, the word "LOVE" occurs one time.
Historians have found out that the perverted Koran was written in a way (and still true today) to infuriate muslims before they went to war.

Macha: return to your ancestors believes.....it was a thousand time better then this hate filled islam that they forced upon you.

Originally Posted by Herman

Macha your so full of sh*t it is unbelieveable !!!!!!
YOU condemm killing of innocents and send me mails like "I think Hitler should have eliminated all of you".

Jews aren't innocent, are they?

But instead you condemm 6 million innocent people.

This fuckin figure has always put the Jews on receiving end.

The true face of a muslims always comes out when you talk about his religion.

Really? Perhaps you initiated this thread then? You are calling on posters to discuss Islam?
Jeezz man, you're hopeless.

This peace of garbage is meant for ill minded people like you.

The prophet Mohammed once said "debating with an idiot is like banging your head against the wall". I should keep that in mind?

How many times does the word fight, kill, slaughter, reject, prohibit, oppressed occur in your garbage verse?

It should have rather said "just sit on your arses and let the Jews slay you all"?

^I hope this is your well developed sense of humour in action Macha, though sadly it probably isn't.

I worked in Pakistan for a while and was always amazed by the vitriol against Jews. This kind of crap is self perpetuating. Call somebody a **** often enough and he will punch you in the face, proving your point of course.

Talking about Headbangers, They sure don't make protest songs like they used to

7 September 1191, Arsuf

Richard I of England defeats Saladin



The Crusades were in reply to 400 years of Islamofascist expansionism.

They hate US...always have...always will.

Link

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Booner, your ignorance of history is astounding but I respect the fact that you never let that stop you having an opinion.

...



I've nothing to add to that. Just thought that it was worthy of repeating.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

I've nothing to add to that. Just thought that it was worthy of repeating.

green for DrBob for putting it so nicely, I think we need to draft a rescue plan for Boon Mee, he is just beat up !!! can't let that happen

Originally Posted by Butterfly

I think we need to draft a rescue plan for Boon Mee

Moog already has https://teakdoor.com/the-captains-lou...t-suicide.html