Thread: Brexit - It's Still On!

Originally Posted by buriramboy

I thought you were Canadian

Born there but became a US citizen at the age of 16.

Originally Posted by Norton

this world class BREXIT cockup

whether one is an advocate of leave or remain, at this point it has to be acknowledged that the cartoonish boris and his effete playmates are grossly incompetent.

ouch.

Amber Rudd quits cabinet and attacks PM for 'political vandalism'


Work and pensions secretary also leaves parliamentary Conservative party and sends excoriating letter to No 10

Boris Johnson’s government was in danger of imploding last night as the work and pensions secretary, Amber Rudd, dramatically quit the cabinet and resigned the Conservative whip, saying should could not “stand by” while “loyal moderate MPs” were purged from the party.


In a devastating resignation letter, she accused the prime minister of “an assault on decency and democracy” and “an act of political vandalism” for sacking 21 of her Tory colleagues for backing a parliamentary bill to stop a no-deal Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...servative-whip

I cant see how there will be any alternative but for the Brits to have a no deal Brexit. EU members have stated time and again the May deal is the only deal on the table. There is very little wriggle room there. They have also stated unless there is a significent possibility of making a deal the deadline will not be extended. Both of those points can only be changed by the europeans, the Brits have no say, other than to revoke article 50.
The EU have stated many times that Britain will not get a free trade deal similar to member states. They will not do anything that may encourage other states to leave the EU and they must make sure Britain is disadvantaged to some degree by leaving. I believe they are prepared to take a hit to preserve this principle.

^ You've finally understood the EU will not back down from its principles. Boris was trying to bluff them but that will fail. A no-deal brexit is the worse position for the UK, worse than staying a member. The Maybot agreement is also worse than being a member. The logical conclusion is to remain but that goes against the referendum.

Boris needs to explain this in a calm and statesmanlike manner. The UK need to stay in the EU and try to change it from the inside. Farage as a leader would force no-deal brexit and walk away, leaving the UK in chaos.

The UK has wasted enough money and good politicians on this folly. Now is the time to end it...for good. Only Boris, as a leader for brexit can bring this debacle to an end and, in doing so, he'll go down in history as a decent chap.

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

EU members have stated time and again the May deal is the only deal on the table.

There is very little wriggle room there. They have also stated unless there is a significent possibility of making a deal the deadline will not be extended.

I believe they are prepared to take a hit to preserve this principle.

1) Just strong negotiation posturing; makes good sense from their side.
2) They've said that before and "changed" their mind. The Yermins have been clear - any extension will be granted. &, next-time too.
3) We are not talking about principled people here.

The EU have been continually working with the remoaners to work towards revoke, both in meetings in continental Europe and their joint Millbank SW1 political think tank centre. Actually, from the EU's side, why wouldn't they - they have a dream of a Federal Europe that they control. But, from the remoaners side, it's disgusting disregard for British democracy.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...brexit-brigade

Boris is going full Doris mode

Amber Rudd quits government over Johnson's Brexit stance
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49623737

Amber Rudd has quit the cabinet and surrendered the Conservative whip saying she cannot "stand by" while "moderate Conservatives are expelled".

The work and pensions secretary said she no longer believed leaving the EU with a deal was the government's "main objective".

Ms Rudd described the sacking of 21 Tory MPs on Tuesday as an "assault on decency and democracy".

No 10 said it was "disappointed" by the resignation of a "talented" minister.

But a spokesperson added that "all ministers who joined the Cabinet signed up to leaving the EU on 31 October come what may".

A senior government source said "resignations to chase headlines won't change the fact that people want Brexit done so that government can deliver on domestic priorities".

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

There's nothing moderate about using endless politiking to stop a referendum result; the arrogance of these people is what's driving this entire insanity. &, part of me wants to see the remoaners win, so that we can see the entire parliamentary process come crashing down - it has become just too corrupt to sustain.

wait a minute, I thought it was the EU that was corrupted and responsible for all the democratic problems in England

can you make up your mind, silly Brexiteer?

more QED

Originally Posted by buriramboy

Like or hate Boris he had a valid point as in what the fuck is the point of asking for a 3 month extension, what is going to be achieved in the next 3 months that couldn't have been done in last 3 years.

indeed, he had, and why he is much needed as a disruptor in this saga. But he is not going to win, so his only exit strategy is going to be a surprise revoke with the full backing of the MPs

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

wait a minute, I thought it was the EU that was corrupted and responsible for all the democratic problems in England

I've never claimed the EU was all our problems.

The EU is a problem, a federal superstate wannabe accountable to nobody... But, the British Parliament is our immediate problem, the so-called "political class" who feel themselves higher than laws and regulations - with some justification actually, as they simply remove/change the ones they don't like... The way that a "political class" join with a "elite class" (whether they be business globalists or certain families...) to write laws to their requirements and against the majority of people is a consistent problem around the world.

I've always liked the French solution, but it does leave somewhat of a vacuum thereafter...

Originally Posted by Switch

Do you know what QED stands for numb nuts?

do you?

one more QED

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

But, the British Parliament is our immediate problem, the so-called "political class" who feel themselves higher than laws and regulations - with some justification actually, as they simply remove/change the ones they don't like... The way that a "political class" join with a "elite class" (whether they be business globalists or certain families...) to write laws to their requirements and against the majority of people is a consistent problem around the world.

congrats, you could also add the grass is green and the sky blue

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

I've always liked the French solution, but it does leave somewhat of a vacuum thereafter...

It makes such a bloody mess on the streets and usually creates a counter strike. Better be civilized and just write a letter to the Sun..

Originally Posted by lom

It makes such a bloody mess on the streets and usually creates a counter strike. Better be civilized and just write a letter to the Sun..

A complete bastard does seem to fill the void that's true.





But, there comes a point (which we've clearly reached) where the abuses of the "political class" are so absurdly self-serving that writing a letter no longer works. The insanity and greed simply won't stop, the political system has to change/evolve which as long as it keeps thinking it's winning, it simply won't do.

Events that we are currently seeing are highlighting the underlying problem - the "political class" in the UK have become too self-serving and too corrupt (the same is true in France/Germany); they believe that terms such as parliamentary democracy means they are unaccountable to the people. Whether it's rearranging your working week and pension to suit the bankers rather than the masses, as in France; socializing private losses of banks, as in Germany; or simply ignoring the biggest politically inclusive vote in UK history, it's the symbolic of the same abuse - sooner or later, something will give. In Thailand, the army just comes out to shoot the people. In the UK, France and Germany that tends to spread across its neighbours into something much larger.

I'm not sure what will happen in the UK, but it is amazing how ignorant and selfish remoaners are; this minority must understand if they win then everyone loses and everything gets worse. I ask time after time, and no answer ever comes, what do the remoaners think will happen if they manage to get their way and revoke Brexit? Do they think everything just goes back to 2015 and everyone thanks them for being smarter than the masses?

Originally Posted by lom

Better be civilized and just write a letter to the Sun..

I'll defer that to the Commons for commentary ...

^ Vague and simplicity don't work in the real world. The devil's in the details and brexit fell well short when it came to details.

One hopes people will bear this in mind when they vote.

Boris, Gove, Mogg and Farage sold the people a unicorn. They should be expelled from politics for their lies and deceit. In Victorian times Farage and JRM would have been chucked off the castle wall with a rope round their necks.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

I'm not sure what will happen in the UK, but it is amazing how ignorant and selfish remoaners are

contradicting logic and belief compartmentalization?

QED

Originally Posted by Troy

^ Vague and simplicity don't work in the real world. The devil's in the details and brexit fell well short when it came to details.

One hopes people will bear this in mind when they vote.

Boris, Gove, Mogg and Farage sold the people a unicorn. They should be expelled from politics for their lies and deceit. In Victorian times Farage and JRM would have been chucked off the castle wall with a rope round their necks.

The people did vote... Have you forgotten???

If there was another vote: Brexit today no deal or Revoke. &, the people chose Brexit today no deal - would you accept the vote, second time around?

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

this minority must understand if they win then everyone loses and everything gets worse. I ask time after time, and no answer ever comes, what do the remoaners think will happen if they manage to get their way and revoke Brexit? Do they think everything just goes back to 2015 and everyone thanks them for being smarter than the masses?

how selfish of you, when Brexit has clearly demonstrated it could destroy the UK, you keep pushing for that suicidal agenda

sometimes it's ok to change your mind and have second thoughts, even in a popular democracy

you and your likes are acting like children, who want their new iPhone and will do anything to get one, even if means murdering their own parents or burning your home

you are clearly not there in terms of patriotism, and focusing on REF1 like it was some kind of vestige of the 10 commandments, means you pretty much lost the plot

hard core Brexiteers are nationalists, nothing else, they aspire to join the BNP or whatever is left of it

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

If there was another vote: Brexit today no deal or Revoke. &, the people chose Brexit today no deal - would you accept the vote, second time around?

if there was another vote: brexit today no deal or revoke & the people chose revoke - would you accept the vote?

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

The people did vote...

Did the "people" (not so overwhelming majority though) know what's everything behind the change, what will it mean for them?

Beside the fact, that the "people" were under very powerful (and surely fairly objective?) massage of the Brexiteers...

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Her comments are hilariously ironic; she is against the extremism and tribalism of the two main parties and instead wants to join the Liberal Democrats whose single policy is: overturn the biggest democratic vote in UK history. According to her, other parties are quasi-Maxist, British nationalist (i.e. she is claiming racist) and extremist while she is joining the "sensible" and "pragmatic" party.

What other choice did she have?
The extremist party within the Tory party has made a party question of Brexit even though it is a divide that cuts through all party lines (and the whole population).
MP's are also normal human beings with strong beliefs and some of them are now being pushed out of the Tory party because of those beliefs.
Does that make those MP's traitors? No, it just show how little room there currently is in the Tory party for differing views.
JRM and his clique has lots to answer for.