Use your common sense (oop sorry I forgot you haven't got any). Scotland has said they will want another referendum if Britain votes out - do try reading, understanding and comprehending the news. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by piwanoi
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Use your common sense (oop sorry I forgot you haven't got any). Scotland has said they will want another referendum if Britain votes out - do try reading, understanding and comprehending the news. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by piwanoi
For me, it's pretty simple: as governance moves further away and becomes more opaque, people feel disenfranchised (because they are), corruption massively increases (the centralized monies ever increasing with procedures so distant and complex that a Federal Europe is a corrupt politician's wet dream) and governance itself becomes worse (the distance between the individual citizen and governance decision mechanism is huge) or indeed secondary (politiking at the federal level will increasingly dominate and push real needs and governance off the agenda).
This central identity and being part of Europe is fine at a personal and national level when it means respecting others and working together. It is also fine at a trading level when it benefits both parties by removing red tape and overly bureaurcratic mechanisms (of course, we have seen the opposite happening...). But, it is not fine when it means rewriting European boundaries of nation states and political ownership by the electorate in said nation states. For example, whatever the rights and wrongs of Greece, we have seen that the nation state was unable to forward their political agenda and the citizens voice was crushed by banking and political institutions outside of that nation state - this is wrong. It empowers bankers and institutions, and as we saw in that case private sector debt was socialized while private sector profits remained corporatized - totally corrupt, the banks get richer, the politicians that enable the corruption get richer and the individuals have their pension money taken away and lose jobs and get poorer.
Local governance, citizen engagement, highly visible checks and balances are always preferable to distant governance, a disinfranchized citizenship and complex/opaque regulations/laws, that is unless you're a corrupt politician, a faceless institution or a corporate lobbyist.
We will not be allowed Brexit, and we will be totally fuked from here on in. &, yes, it is the fukin Fourth Reich...
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2016/06/1380.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJdhwOobeQM
^Nice rant Betty but you overlook the fact that most problems occur from within our own country.
Why not be truthful (for a change) and just say it slipped your mind that they had already had a referendum instead of making insipid excuses:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by RoninUse your common sense (oop sorry I forgot you haven't got any). Scotland has said they will want another referendum if Britain votes out - do try reading, understanding and comprehending the news. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by piwanoi
That is a separate issue, Sir and in no way mitigates my points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
If you want to know the facts on the issues surrounding Brexit then look at Full Fact.
Or if you want to be a sheep driven by racist, nationalist hatred and outright lies.. don't.
Up to you :chitown: https://fullfact.org/
May have escaped your attention Ronin, but as of the last Scottish Parliament elections, the SNP no longer have an overall majority in their Parliament. Ironically, the Conservatives are now the second most rčpresented party. By inference, a call for a further Scottish referendum wouldn't even leave Edinburgh.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoninUse your common sense (oop sorry I forgot you haven't got any). Scotland has said they will want another referendum if Britain votes out - do try reading, understanding and comprehending the news. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by piwanoi
From what I'm reading about Wales, the majority are in favour of leave, at least in the highly populated south.
Northern ireland is still a predominately Unionist country, and whilst the Brexit scenario presents the most tangible impact of border restrictions, the reality is that the prospect of their population majority wishing to break from the UK is pretty much inconceivable.
And perhaps learn a little more about "fullfact.org" here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo
Enza Ferreri: UK Fact-Checker "Full Fact" Is not Impartial
Enza Ferreri is a right-wing racist from Liberty GBQuote:
Originally Posted by PAGAnd perhaps learn a little more about "fullfact.org" here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo
Enza Ferreri: UK Fact-Checker "Full Fact" Is not Impartial
Can't remember to whom this quote is attributed, but "lies, damn lies, and statistics" has sprung to mind from both sides over the last few weeks/months.
Bottom line for me at least is whether the UK population wishes to retain their present situation re economics and immigration etc through Remain (with seemingly little to no chance of change in the future, or whether the majority will say 'bring it on, we'll do it our way'. Simplistic I know, but for many who see no hope of change or improvement to their and their families future, maybe the risk is worth taking.
Wouldn't expect anything less. Highlights my point about manipulation of reality to serve the agendas of both sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by lomEnza Ferreri is a right-wing racist from Liberty GBQuote:
Originally Posted by PAGAnd perhaps learn a little more about "fullfact.org" here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo
Enza Ferreri: UK Fact-Checker "Full Fact" Is not Impartial
So PAG.. you don't actually check the site to test the veracity of the facts yourself, but instead find a right wing blogger that denounces it... totally in keeping with the self imposed ignorance preferred by the leave campaign.Quote:
Originally Posted by lomEnza Ferreri is a right-wing racist from Liberty GBQuote:
Originally Posted by PAGAnd perhaps learn a little more about "fullfact.org" here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo
Enza Ferreri: UK Fact-Checker "Full Fact" Is not Impartial
Seems you don't want to know the truth... I don't see anyone on the Remain campaign using Nazi style propaganda to stir up sentiment.. in fact most of those that know full well that leaving the EU will be a disaster are also very much of the mind that they think politics in the UK are total bollocks anyway and the country is fucked by austerity, war and cuts to public services, not by immigration or contributions to the EU.Quote:
Originally Posted by PAG
But why should I give a fuck..? I already voted with my feet. But it bothers me that the agenda in the UK is being driven by closet racists preying on the fears of the gullible.
Britain is fucked because the electorate has been sold down the river so many times before on promises of a brighter, more secure future and this time is no different. Britain out of the EU will be a financial and therefore social disaster.
Especially when the Scottish get enough leverage to fuck England off and get back into the EU.
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif
I went to fact check and it seems pretty decent, but I couldn't find the but where it says the leave campaign is driven by racist nationalistic lies, can you link to that? Or are you just sensationalising their findings?Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoSeems you don't want to know the truth... I don't see anyone on the Remain campaign using Nazi style propaganda to stir up sentiment.. in fact most of those that know full well that leaving the EU will be a disaster are also very much of the mind that they think politics in the UK are total bollocks anyway and the country is fucked by austerity, war and cuts to public services, not by immigration or contributions to the EU.Quote:
Originally Posted by PAG
But why should I give a fuck..? I already voted with my feet. But it bothers me that the agenda in the UK is being driven by closet racists preying on the fears of the gullible.
Britain is fucked because the electorate has been sold down the river so many times before on promises of a brighter, more secure future and this time is no different. Britain out of the EU will be a financial and therefore social disaster.
The Frenchman campaign tactics are incredibly nasty and sleazy, in fact the only reason why the leave campaign had done as well as it has it's because awfulness of the remain campaign.
^^No... that's just you being an ignorant prick with your head in the sand.
just in case you missed it.. :rolleyes:
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif
“All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked. Works the same way in any country”
Hermann Goering
^^^ typical remainer. Yes farage is not the greatest bloke in the world, but it's not about him. Who have you been tricked into thinking is attacking you?
See my post 1040. Point is, it's relatively easy for both sides to throw these seeming facts into the equation to suit their own agendas and hypothetical projections (for that's all they are). It's fair game to knock and ridicule opinions that differ from our own, however this referendum has polarised people far beyond a typical UK election, and the long term geo political effects will not dissipate for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoSo PAG.. you don't actually check the site to test the veracity of the facts yourself, but instead find a right wing blogger that denounces it... totally in keeping with the self imposed ignorance preferred by the leave campaign.Quote:
Originally Posted by lomEnza Ferreri is a right-wing racist from Liberty GBQuote:
Originally Posted by PAGAnd perhaps learn a little more about "fullfact.org" here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo
Enza Ferreri: UK Fact-Checker "Full Fact" Is not Impartial
Core Labour supporters disenfranchised from their party leadership. Conservatives undergoing self flagellation. What ever happens tomorrow, who's going to pick up the ball and run with it?
You're an idiot, you deserve the miserable future you are voting for.Quote:
Originally Posted by longway
EU referendum: No new reform deal for UK after vote, Jean Claude Juncker warns
European Commission President's comments will be seized upon by Leave campaign as evidence of EU leadership’s intransigence over Britain’s terms of membership.
In a last minute intervention that will be viewed as deeply unhelpful by David Cameron and the Remain camp, Mr Juncker said the Prime Minister had already “got the maximum he could receive” from his pre-referendum negotiation in February.
Mr Cameron has said repeatedly this week that he will use a Remain vote to push for further reform of the EU, particularly around freedom of movement rules.
But Mr Juncker’s comments, made to reporters in Brussels on the eve of Britain’s historic In-Out referendum, will be seized upon by the Leave campaign as evidence of the EU leadership’s intransigence over Britain’s terms of membership.
“The British policymakers and British voters have to know that there will be not be any kind of renegotiation,” Mr Juncker said.
“We have concluded a deal with the Prime Minister, he got the maximum he could receive, we gave the maximum we could give. So there will be no kind of renegotiation, nor on the agreement we found in February, nor as far as any kind of treaty negotiations are concerned.”
EU referendum: No new reform deal for UK after vote, Jean Claude Juncker warns | UK Politics | News | The Independent
Juncker is the gift that keeps on giving! Proof point number 1000 or so of why we need to vote leave tomorrow. I want my kids to grow up in a free and democratic country that determines its own future, not a superstate like this.
They claim its a democracy of 28 nations but then this guy stands up and declares on his own what "can" or "cannot" happen. Much like Merkel last year with her unilateral "lets open the floodgates and change the whole culture of Europe" decision last year on behalf of all of us without even asking if anyone minds.
:UK:
Have you ever heard of the general election? Do please learn to read as you clearly have neither read nor understood anything that was said! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by piwanoiWhy not be truthful (for a change) and just say it slipped your mind that they had already had a referendum instead of making insipid excuses:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by RoninUse your common sense (oop sorry I forgot you haven't got any). Scotland has said they will want another referendum if Britain votes out - do try reading, understanding and comprehending the news. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by piwanoi
the eu will save us from....? Is as if you think there is nothing good in the uk, all good resides in the eu. Mad.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoIm nuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by longway