Which Bush?
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Which Bush?
^The second. The first one understood how to do a punitive expedition (and how to deal with Russians). He wasn't a neocon.
It shouldn't be too hard to isolate ISIS in Mosul now the Kurds have cut them off from the north- something like the Anaconda Plan in the US Civil War, writ small. Little or no traffic in or out of Mosul doesn't look like it would be too difficult to manage.
Bush the second just wanted to finish what his father started while seeking some revenge for 9/11 at the same time.
I hope you are right about the Kurds.
Neither of those reasons makes any sense- GHW Bush deliberately left things the way he did, not because of any inability to finish what he started. As for 9/11, that's just silly. Maybe if they had invaded Saudi. . . Dubya was an incompetent fool (unlike his old man) caught up in Uncle Dick's wet dream, but OT in any case.Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
Kurdish troops cut off ISIS supply route; fears mount for 90 kidnapped Christians - Middle East - Israel News | HaaretzQuote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
Kurdish militia pressed a big offensive against Islamic State in northeast Syria on Wednesday, cutting one of its supply lines from Iraq, as fears mounted for dozens of Christians abducted by the hardline group that recently beheaded 21 Egyptian Copts.
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In the battle for Tikrit, ISIS is finding itself up against Qassim Suleimani. If the US played this smart they could offer support while leaning on Suleimani/Iran to ensure that Shia militias refrain from reprisals against Sunnis in exchange for air support. Going to have to work with Iran again for this to work, just as the US leaned on Iran in Afghanistan, with great success (and which the Americans seemed to forget, just as they leaned on Russia in Afghanistan). The Saudis won't like it and neither will Likud, but so what?
OK, let's just say GWB went to war with Iraq because he could.
It will be interesting to see what happens in Tikrit. So far it seems to be moving slowly and ISIS is said to be well dug in.
Yes, it's going to get ugly, we can count on that. I think Graeme Wood makes a good case for ISIS taking its apocalyptic vision seriously, as difficult as it is for a lot of us, including a lot of Muslims, to get our heads around. Even if some of the deluded fools from North America, Aussie and Europe who realize their mistake would like to run away they will find that very difficult. ISIS relish a fight with the Shia at least as much as they do with us, and in my opinion it is better to let their (nominal) co-religionists sort them out (with indirect support from the west).Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
Yes, I think it has been well established that a solution must come from within the ranks of the muslim faith. That still leaves the brutal fighting which the west has a part in. I do not think the muslim countries can carry this fight alone, at this point. My personal hope is that they will, at some point but I may be dreaming.
Who do Muslim fighters and governments get their arms from?
Europe, Russia, China, USA,...mainly.
Those four sources of arms are creaming it in.
Stop the supplies.
They'll probably say they need more materiel, more training, or something. They don't seem to have the will- Turkey could crush these loonies like a bug, but for some reason doesn't really seem to want to. . .Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
I do agree with you ENT, but wonder how that can actually be accomplished?
Because they are muslim brothers?Quote:
Originally Posted by robuzoThey'll probably say they need more materiel, more training, or something. They don't seem to have the will- Turkey could crush these loonies like a bug, but for some reason doesn't really seem to want to. . .Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
Many of the ME countries have had sufficient weapons and training for many years, Why not let them have a go first.Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
Set a time limit like ........... 2 months. If they haven't cleared it up we can always give both sides a hand with more weapons, training and military know how.
Or is it designed to last another 25 years?
OhOh, it's good for 'business.'
Great idea OhOh, but I don't think the west could keep their noses out of things when there is oil involved
Probably,......or more.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhOh
That's the problem, oil for guns.Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
A long shot,.....public awareness.Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
Good grief . . . someone still believes that 9/11 was Sadaam? :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
Because Turkey views their main fight as being against Assad, and ISIS (and others) are fighting Assad. If/when Assad falls, Turkey's stance might change.Quote:
Originally Posted by robuzo
Are you referring to awareness that ISIS is not really the organization they portray in their recruitment efforts? I think awareness should be taught to parents along with the signs that their kids may be thinking about joining up. If parents knew these warning signs, I think some of kids that have gone off on a crusade could have been stopped, or at least de-programmed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTA long shot,.....public awareness.Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
Things were a lot more stable in the world with Hussein, Ghadaffi and assad firmly in control wouldn't you say.
They knew a strong arm was needed.
I believe what we see now is part of the long term goal of Al qaidas 9/11 attack.
Koojo, I agree that a strong ruler is nčeded to rule countries like Iraq, Lybia and Syria. Even though destabilization is a covert tactic, it seems the west endorses one pussy leader after another.
Do the powers to be, want these countries stable?
Attack of 9/11 who was it anyway has it been established yet.?
QUOTE=Koojo;2971410]Things were a lot more stable in the world with Hussein, Ghadaffi and assad firmly in control wouldn't you say.
They knew a strong arm was needed.
I believe what we see now is part of the long term goal of Al qaidas 9/11 attack.[/QUOTE]
A master plan 15 years to come to fruition and only the Al Qaeda leadership could see where it would lead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koojo
The ultimate goal: some rag tag rebels controlling some bits of rural Iraq and Syria.
And everyone thought the western hegemony was cunning!
They have got nothing on the fiendishly clever Osama!
Bwahahahaha!!
^He has caused humiliation after humiliation to the crusader coalition though.
Try provoking the United States of Stupid into destabilizing the entire region, removing strong figureheads and creating the conditions for further destabilization and the "Arab Spring" and allowing the growth of fundamentalist Muslim groups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
Not to mention the weakening of the U.S. by causing them to spend trillions on wars and 'homeland security' that the could otherwise have been spent on infrastructure, education and constructive domestic programs.
(for starters)
The attack by the Iraqi and Iranian military would be assisted by crusader coalition air power. Unfortunately it is impossible due to the wests politican sensitivities to their own populations perception of the actual combatants.Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
Plus of course the supply drops will mysteriously land in ISIS held areas.:rolleyes:
Plus much of the Iraqi army do not have their hearts in the fight since they are Sunni.
You'd be surprised as to the ignorance that still surrounds this whole affair - and the general ignorance, for that matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by OckerRocker
I'd be surprised if that was the case, Rick. As a country, Iraq has more Shias than Sunnis (almost twice as many Shia as Sunni), and the Iraqi government is dominated by Shia so I would doubt that the army is made up of only Sunnis. What you might find is that some Sunni former members of the Iraqi army are actually fighting for IS.Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
A yes, the middle east before 2001. Bastion of political stability. Paragon of regions. Shining example to the world of how things could be!Quote:
Originally Posted by Koojo
^ Looper, the US (and others), didn't start interfering in ME affairs in 2001. Iran in 1953 immediately springs to mind.
The 'west' has been doing their stuff in the ME for over a century - who do you think drew up the boundaries, created states/countries . . Thank the frogs and poms for that
Napoleon for one, was a bit of a shit stirrer.
The Brits gave Wawance a free hand with the IED training, whew he could take a whole battalion of Turks out of action in one nights work. Don't let O'Tooles performance fool you he were no petal.
A crisis of trust in Iraq
A crisis of trust in Iraq ? Indian Punchline
"We will never get to know what painful thoughts raced through the soldierly mind of Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, when he testified before the US senators in Washington on Tuesday, but it certainly wouldn’t have been easy for him to bring himself to compliment Iran’s “most overt conduct… in the form of artillery and other things” in the military operation currently going on to retake the northern Iraqi city of Tikrit from the control of the Islamic State.
For sure, Gen Dempsey knew he was actually complimenting an Iranian general who has been in the American-Israeli ‘hit list’ from time immemorial – Gen Qassem Suleimani, commander of the elite Quds Force of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps [IRGC] of Iran.
..........For sure, President Barack Obama has some answering to do. Why has the US-led “international coalition” been twiddling its thumbs and marking time by needlessly exaggerating the potency of the Islamic State fighters? Baghdad and Tehran have exposed the US and its coalition partners – ranging from the Australians to the Gulf Arabs – and shows them in a very poor light as cowardly or dissimulating (or both.) In fact, there is a deafening silence on the part of Saudi Arabia even as its erstwhile progenies are facing massacre."
I am sure the current "coalition" have their reasons as to why they are finding it difficult to make headway themselves.
Even the BBC News channel have begrudgingly "praised" the inept Muslims, of both branches and country of origin.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31727470
Doing stuff like this surely doesn't help. Allegedly an air drop of supplies :confused:to ISIS by XXX at the Libyan/Egyptian border,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuWrIRHKu_M#t=48
Cut their support, supplies and funding from Islamic controlled drug dealing.Quote:
Originally Posted by rickschoppers
ISIS collects funds in Indonesia openly, and Indonesians produce more methamphetamine than any of their neighbours, along with acting as a drug smuggling hub for SE Asia.
So how much of that graft is ISIS picking up? 10%? More?
Same in Afghanistan, ragheads (under US and UK auspices) just kept on growing all the opium they could, supplying the local warlords with their cut and the US it's share,....need the stuff in Big Pharma.
Colombia the same with the coke, but the ragheads got no deal there. The locals get their cut, and US Big Pharma imports the rest of the coke.
Drugs have funded many paramilitary groups globally, drugs for money, or guns, so the armaments industry, Big Pharma and the bulk drug producers all profit, comfortably supervised to maintain a balance by corrupt governments, globally.
Indeed...Quote:
Originally Posted by OckerRocker
And many still don't get it - drawing any connections.
it's all a bit like looking into a mirror of ourselves.
crusaders marching off to ME with bows and arrows and swords causing mayhem there.
not so long ago in england, heads were being lopped off and put on spikes
folk being burned alive at the stake
folk being hung, limbs pulled from their sockets and scattered
only 200 years ago we were selling women and girls in the cattle market
before that, pregnant women would have their stomachs ripped open and baby pulled from the womb
today in saudi they lop people's heads off and nobody says booo
or lord green and hsbc laundering cash for those who behead their own people in the thousands and nobody says booo.
jees, Palestine still looks like it was hit by an earthquake
so we're still all fecking monsters,,, just whose side are you on.
How convenient that we won't hear about these things from the Western press.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhOh