Thread: bricks blocks building.....whats it all about?

Its rater interesting you posted about polystyrene and styrphome as i was just reading a file about insulating farm buildings. It rated concrete as a good conductor of heat obviously, which for cooling isnt so great. To stop water infiltration polystyrene is a good insulator as well as protecting agent in between a double block wall in the cavity or as described as a separate block itself. This should enable a massive reduction in heat transfer as itsa poor conductor as well as a sound and water barrier.

It achieves good values when coupled with concrete or by itself.

I am also looking at a building system in South Africa that combines polystyrene but havent quite uncovered what its about, but apparently local unskilled workers were used and so by some peoples thinking thai's would be able to cope with.

Beco makes them

The Beco WALLFORM System

The beco system is smething i would consider depending on the cost, apparently in NZ they have a cast technology with metal bridges that are able to pour upto 3 meters each pour. This saves mess and time for construction.

Though labour isnt as costly, it can still reduce construction time and money in that respects. I have no idea about costs but hope t contact them soon to find out.

For me using a form that you pay for that has some function in the build makes economical sense considering it should allow cooler inside temps, and the ability for any A/C unit to work more effeciently due to a better building envelope seal( apart from that needed for hot air escape through ventilation). This inturn pys for itself rather then using wood forms, that are a waste product and cost to the build.


All in all I would prefer to use the block bricks(shown above) and a cavity using a bond similar if possible to the rat trap bond to stop pests. Although a polystyrene bat or similar in the cavity with a water proofing cover would also be as sufficient.

Has anyone used this type or other insulatin in walls?

Has anyne had a cavity put in and found problems with this?

Though alot use concrete pour post beam, i will not want build this way. Can anyne suggest the next best method, i will be building 3-4 stories high but not very wide.

Thanks for your info so far chaps!

Tis i also found interesting about the BECO system taken from there website;
Did you know...

...that inside the finished WALLFORM structure, the internal finishes, either wet plaster or dry linings, are applied direct onto the polystyrene face of the wall, and as a result are kept warmer.

This means that in all rooms including bathrooms and kitchens where air humidity is high, internal surface condensation is eliminated, helping the interior decoration to last longer and stay mould-free.

These product seems to be ticking all the right boxes so far, anyone got anything critical to say about it (apart from its probably not availible here directly)?

If not available, you could import a part container load yourself! but that does put the cost up, obviously

Yes i have been considering a cargo ship for other reasons so this could be possible!

I know that other people are interested in this method of building in Thailand, as i have read posts to that tune. As per usual there is a lot of misconception and misunderstood information being thrown around, i suppose its there loss.

If they want to keep singing from the same old not as efficient song book as the rest of us that dont bother me. Why are so many people hell bent on protecting concrete building and post and beam work even if by trade they still make out that icf isn't as good?????

To me i see a place for it and sometimes you can achieve nice results but in the whole it leaves little architectural merit and integrity or even just something nice and different to look at!!!!!!!

ICF building has something of interest for places like Thailand, as it gives designers and builders an option to create something original or different simple or complex.

I dont care too much for concrete but in my current project thats what i must use, however i must find something other then post beam concrete pour. If there is an interest maybe i should look into Beco's distribution offer?

polystyrene is the new wood and concrete fill is the new well concrete!

Any comments regarding the above caps?

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

Why are so many people hell bent on protecting concrete building and post and beam work

because it is easy and cheap and flexible, and the local builders can do it

as in any country, if you start using unfamiliar materials, you tend to get more headaches

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

Yes i have been considering a cargo ship for other reasons so this could be possible!

I know that other people are interested in this method of building in Thailand, as i have read posts to that tune. As per usual there is a lot of misconception and misunderstood information being thrown around, i suppose its there loss.

If they want to keep singing from the same old not as efficient song book as the rest of us that dont bother me. Why are so many people hell bent on protecting concrete building and post and beam work even if by trade they still make out that icf isn't as good?????

To me i see a place for it and sometimes you can achieve nice results but in the whole it leaves little architectural merit and integrity or even just something nice and different to look at!!!!!!!

ICF building has something of interest for places like Thailand, as it gives designers and builders an option to create something original or different simple or complex.

I dont care too much for concrete but in my current project thats what i must use, however i must find something other then post beam concrete pour. If there is an interest maybe i should look into Beco's distribution offer?

polystyrene is the new wood and concrete fill is the new well concrete!

Any comments regarding the above caps?

i cant see how using ICF can give you better architecture?this is usually the architect that designs stuff,and his ability,sight,imagination, should not be hindered by basic construction materials and construction methods.
can you provide examples of what can be achieved, and why it cant be achieved using present construction method.
cheers

Originally Posted by splitlid

i cant see how using ICF can give you better architecture?this is usually the architect that designs stuff,and his ability,sight,imagination, should not be hindered by basic construction materials and construction methods.

I think a good architect either chooses his materials to suit the type of building required, or he designs the building with the materials in mind

construction materials can radically alter any building if you wish

like using steel can give you structures that cannot be achieved with concrete pillars and beams

mind you, I am not sure what the polystyrene blocks can do that is different, besides not having columns getting in the way

Ok then, I understand your points of view and can answer them from an opinion and process that is solely of my own.

Firstly, I think post and bem concrete pour is exatcly what an architect would use to create something that is technically sound for builders in this country. This method is widely used and though i can create variation in its method in my opinion this method of building has way to many limitations.

This could be seen in space, cooling , cost and design.

It seems funny to me that people say as a genral statement that post and beam is where its at, this to me sounds like you have settled for what you consider to me to be a less hassle option, based solely on what contruction workers are capable of(forgive me if i am wrong im sure that you all will put me right)?

Im not attacking those that use it and i dont care to say that one thing is better then the other as I dont gain anything from it and most will say the the oppposite. But for me post and beam inhibits alot of factors in my mind, and regardless of how inven tive the arhcitect is he has to work from something you give him as a place you want to live in.

For this reason having a reasonable competant understanding yourself of materials and design will feed the architects ability to pull it all together, which i am not capable of doing my self!

Im sure whlst an architect has the abilty to do what he wants and choose accordingly, i would say that many or most here will go with what they know and that is NOT what i want. Im not trying to break the mold and achieve something different from others, however i do see the capabilty of doing something;

A) much better for the same cost in terms of design, cooling, functionality and aesthetic merits all relvant to their cost.

B) Or if possible cheaper and more cost effective that as near as possible best suits those above.

I dont mean to sound rude or snipe but its tiring to listen to rhetoric about building what is and more to the many what is NOT possible!

Especially from the few i think that have a a greater understanding from me on these things and that have an incredible amount more practical knowledge. In tis is suppose my naivity is a good thing and to tis im sure that people will make the point that is why i seem overly confident about doing something different then what most tend to settle for.

But lets take a minute to look over what ive said which is theoretical for us all as i presume we all havent used this building technique;

1) It isnt complicated to build with and is expressly commented on that a few hours of onsite training can make complete novices to building as awole confident to lay the block work. This is genrally snapped in place like lego, its lightweight and construction is much faster then most other building methods.

2) It intergrates an insulation material into the framework creating a strong, effecient building that has more effetive use them most other materials at the cost level(taken from a uk perspetive or even australain and new zealand costing).

3) It suits the hot humid climate we live in unlike concrete(solely on its own) and is a modern way of combining the ease of use and solid construction concrete gives with less waste and typically less concrete.

4) No other material that i have investigated for building has the cost, design, and ease of construction as this method specualtes it has. Also offsetting the fact that is has a greater effeciency to cut down bills and because of the dynamics of the material means it has te best comprised ratio i have seen for what i want as stated above in acheiving better results all round.

As its not even probably availible in Thailand at this moment i concede the cost is unknown and undesirable at the moment, but also to swing the other way it could be just as expensive as concrete post beam and yet a much better material for construction, building effeciency and so gives it a more desirable factor.

im not trying to win people over i dont sell it (yet) and have no interest in trying to turn others as it doesnt benefit to do so, if people can see some reason amongst the madness then that is fine please discuss more. If people are going to make the same points about post and beam, thank you for your thoughts but dont waste your time on this thread, I am not interested in this building method!

so any more to add?

Im still waiting for anyones thoughts on the block brick building at the very top, tis construction seems to be something different that i havent seen talked about or used on this thread. It as many merits including cost, load bearing walls that use an air gap to cool (or at least act more effeciently then concrete pour or brick infill) anyone got comments?

thanks once again!

ben your ideas are great and your enthuasium is to be applauded, but before you get too carried away with you new construction methods to be used here in thailand, you really should speak to some one at your local govt who will be able to inform you of the basic building codes here in thailand,
one of them is i believe that columns and beams must be used.

I know a company that uses metal formers to pour concrete walls in Thailand, but unless you want to build a few hundred homes at a time they won't be interested.

Thank you for your quick responses concerning the thread.

I didnt realise that there was only literally one method to which you could construct a building just different styles?

I think that some places have allowed monolithic structures like adobe walls as bricks as far as i can gather, there is no pillar column system, though i am not 100%........????

Surely you could consider that one long wall of concrete is a post on which beams would be laid or am i opening a can of worms here?

I know that a wealthy businesswoman well connected in Thailand is looking at this system in Australia and New zealand, so maybe there will be a change in this instance?

However to clarify what we are suggesting at the moment that post and beam must be allocated in the building as a load bearing system?

I know for instance that the superbloc website thaialnd suggests that there is no need for post and beam in building with superbloc as they can be connected at corners but obviously this is by no means clarification on the building code but thought an interesting point to observe.

Is there someone that can explain tis point further to specific guidelines or are you going to make me do some work and go to the government offices?

One last point I have heard that steel is expensive to use and contruct a building with(only commercial outlets use it) is this typically true?

thanks once again to your replies!

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

Im sure whlst an architect has the abilty to do what he wants and choose accordingly, i would say that many or most here will go with what they know and that is NOT what i want.

There is your problem,finding an architect who wants to use the block method

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

I dont mean to sound rude or snipe but its tiring to listen to rhetoric about building what is and more to the many what is NOT possible!

I have not noticed any rhetoric, merely advice based on knowledge

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

It isnt complicated to build with and is expressly commented on that a few hours of onsite training can make complete novices to building as awole confident to lay the block work. This is genrally snapped in place like lego, its lightweight and construction is much faster then most other building methods.

Partly true, however, that is only for the walls. You still need foundations and those would be columns and beams, or do you have better methods

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

No other material that i have investigated for building has the cost, design, and ease of construction as this method specualtes it has

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

As its not even probably availible in Thailand at this moment i concede the cost is unknown

those above two statements are contradictory. From previous posts it seems that you did not know about this method until it was mentioned in our rhetoric! now you espouse it with a fervour. Do more research maybe