Thread: The politics behind Thailand's floods

Originally Posted by Thaihome

The fact that they did not donate to you does mean they did not donate to anyone else. Virtually every company in Thailand has had a drive for their employees to donate. At the end of October, the employees at our company donated over 100k baht in supplies and 72k in cash, which management matched with a 100k donation. Another drive is ongoing with target to make the donations in two weeks. This about 250 middle class Thais and another 100 or so farangs.

Matching donations does seem to be a fund raising technique which thai coporate's seem very receptive too. Im aware of one office in customs that donated its overtime to flood relief and managed to get enough matched funding, presumably from import/export companies, to get their OT matched 15:1.

To give so idea of the scale of the relief requirements in bangkok.
I mentioned that an institution at better half's office campus had 6m3 of eggs on trays, not the kind of thing that goes into relief bags. They coordinated with a number of relief kitchens around bangkok. these eggs along with about 40m3 of rice, water and other ingredients were supplied to these kitchens and eaten in 1 day.

That bangkok is not suffering from serious hunger issues is a testament to the the shear humber of these small scale efforts to get food and aid to the people that need it. And given the almost complete lack of coordination, planning and organisation I am staggered just how well its all working.

Originally Posted by Andrew Spooner

Sailing into Trouble

I think Strontium Dog only uses the English language Thai press as a source for the flooding story.

Large parts of the Thai press have been far less critical of Yingluck.

Maybe Strontium Dog doesn't realise that?

Ah, but unfortunately, we have this English forum, with a rule about posting English news....and no one is going to translate articles for here (certainly not me).

However, 2Bangkok does a great job of posting the headlines from the Thai newspapers...here is yesterdays list....

(and btw, I am very well aware of what is said in the Thai language press, certainly more than you are I am sure...I wasn't aware that your Thai language skills were up to much)

Thai-language Headlines of November 14, 2011

Posted on November 15, 2011 by Amnuay



Komchadluek, November 14, 2011

- Froc can’t accept [people] demolishing big bags [the so-called "big bag" dykes]. Rama 2 in crisis, residents in 10 areas in Samaedam evacuated. Froc threatens the residences if they demolish big bags, [if they do] water will overflow [at the rate of] 100 cubic meters each day and the flood will go to Silom then.
- Moving more than 600,000 laborers in Mahachai. They are afraid of a repeated crisis like the one in Ayuthaya-Pathumthani.
- Fear of toxins in Bangpakong, 50,000 fishes were impacted and died. Residents in Bangpakong requested the government to check this, but Office of National Environment Board said they don’t have any equipment to check.
- Deadline to move all cars from expressway in 16 Nov. The police want all cars to move to park at Ammatanakorn, Chonburi, and don’t allow the motorbike service on the expressway.

Thairath, November 14, 2011

- Puea Thai’s MP brought residents to demolish the big bag [dyke] at Don Muang. [this is the claim from residents that their local MP, Karun, authorized them to destroy the flood dyke]
- Japanese investors complain to to the Thai government that they are not sincere in recovering industrial estates.
- The Ministry of Transportation and Communication’s permanent secretary was robbed of 6 million baht.
- BMTA expanded soldier-run shuttle jeeps to 15 more lines.
- Democrats request to get rid of people who make profit from flood supplies including boat purchasing.

Matichon, November 14, 2011

- Don Muang residences claimed that Keng Karun [the local MP] gave the green light to demolish big bag [dykes] to allow the water through at Bangkok 20 km.
- The BTS [Skytrain route] bidding is unusual, the 6th contract of the bidding for the purple line of BTS construction seems to be suspicious. The Office of the National Anti-Corruption Commission will investigate the bidding.
- Puea Thai sets up 2 teams to investigate the rescue bag scandal case [the accusations that rescue supply prices paid by the government were inflated]. Pracha accepted that, because of a lot of work, so there’s some mistakes, but it can be corrected. Yongyuth sent DSI to investigate as well.
- Ayuthaya industrial estates will resume their production at the beginning of December. The Tourism Authority of Thailand will contact the world media after the water runs dry.

Daily News, November 14, 2011

- Ayuthaya mobilize forces to pump water to recover Chaiwattana Temple after they found a crack on the wall.
- Keng Karun denied about the green light to demolish big bag [dyke].
- The singer of Burn, Santika’s case appealed [referring to the December 31, 2008 pub fire].
- Chulalongkorn prepares to move the rescue center to Sattaheep province.
- Sukhumbhan shed tears because of the pressure from Froc ordering him to help on the big bag problem in Don Muang in the middle of night. [this refers to Froc suddenly ceding authority to stop residents from demolishing dykes to the BMA]

Originally Posted by Sailing into trouble

SD looked at your posts on the flooding on a regular basis. But the source material always seemed to use the "news" to discredit Yingluck.

Surely your whole effort to report on the flooding was not to heap condemnation on the new Prime Minister? Unless you subscribe to the Rupert Murdock idea of news manipulation surely you do not support the notion that a mega flood already in ascendence when the new head of state took over governmental control could or should be the measure of her ability to govern?

I post news from all the English language news sources in Thailand that I am aware of.

I have also posted from Prachatai and Thai Political Prisoners recently, but their output is hardly prolific.

I also post from Associated Press and AFP whenever they release stuff.

I also post from any/all international media (altho' most just use AP/AFP material usually).

If you know of some I have missed, then please post it. I am one person. I might miss things. Thanks.

Strontium Dog

You wrote "He did claim that he would stop producing blog pieces, strangely just after Pheu Thai won the election."

As I referred to at the time the reason I suspended my blogging was due to UK police advice.

This advice came after my wife was the recipient of quite a long, nasty cyberstalking hate campaign by expats who didn't like what I was writing. This cyberstalking also included the distribution of photos of mutilated corpses with my wife's name attached to them. Someone was arrested and cautioned for these acts.

If you don't believe that I'd be happy to send you (or anyone else) evidence of the police advice, the caution and the cyberstalking. Please email asiaprovocateur (at) gmail . com

Please stick to the facts not rumours or, god forbid, anti-Spooner propaganda ;-)

Strontium Dog

It is well known that AP Thailand's reporting is, how can I put it, a bit "stilted".

Did you see their recent piece by Denis Gray?

What were your thoughts on that?

I should add that my "bias" has always been very obvious and not hidden.

AP Thailand, however, claims objectivity.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

I've also 'produced'. I guess you didn't notice.

I don't visit this site daily as I have other priorities but your claim to have 'produced' something is interesting.

Just what?

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

no one is going to translate articles for here (certainly not me)

What with Google Translation?


You just love to give falls impressions don't you SD. I think DrBob was right about you.

Originally Posted by Andrew Spooner

StrontiumDog

How can it be pro-govt propaganda when I am not making any mention of the Yingluck government except to say, in the very first paragraph "One of the strongest messages resonating throughout the international media is the claim that Thailand’s inexperienced and recently elected Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has not been up to the task"?

Surely, if it was propaganda I wouldn't have mentioned that at all.

I'd like to see some of your own opinions expressed about Pheu Thai/Yingluck, as you seem very capable of doing so when it is attacking one side of the political divide here (the democrats....), rather than alluding to what others are saying. It is all in the wording Andrew....

Originally Posted by Andrew Spooner

And where are the factual inaccuracies in my article? Don't exist.

Didn't say there were any.

Originally Posted by Andrew Spooner

Do you think Sukhumbhand is showing the right kind of leadership qualities by whining about receiving a letter at 10pm?

I think (and I have said this elsewhere) that the infighting and political point scoring that Sukhumbrand/BMA and Pheu Thai/FROC have engaged in has been highly deleterious to the entire flooding situation (both from an information dissemination point of view, and as a consequence, in making decisions that have affected the public) . Both are guilty of behaving childishly. It is just so typical of how things are here. Self interest rules, at the expense of others (the public).

I've said this before, I don't have a side or a favourite. I have no personal investment in this country. I am a guest only. I can not vote. I observe and comment as an outsider. Others seem to (bizarrely) believe I have some sort of personal agenda, failing to realise that this says more about them than I......

Originally Posted by Andrew Spooner

As I know you read my work you must also surely remember the very large platform I gave to the former Dems Party Finance Minister, Korn.

He had four, very long posts where he could express his views. The only person connected to the UDD who got anything approaching similar coverage was Arisman whom I also interviewed. But that was about 1/4 the coverage Korn received. In fact Korn has had more coverage in the entire body of my work than any other single person.

Am I a Korn propagandist as well?

I enjoyed those posts. But there was an agenda behind it....yours.

Originally Posted by Andrew Spooner

Finally, I mainly write opeds. I am perfectly entitled to my opinion. If you don't like my opinion, that's fine.

Didn't say I don't like your pieces. I am however somewhat perplexed at the one-sided nature of your posts.

I'd like to see some more balanced pieces from you. How about looking at what the Yingluck government is doing. Such things as the Printing Act amendment they tried to sneak though during the flooding crisis surely are worthy of your attention....it is a highly contentious and dangerous piece of legislation, that at present has been put on the back-burner...but certainly not ditched. You appear to care a great deal about freedom of expression and human rights (well, I assume you do from your past and recent body of work). This proposed amendment is potentially one of the most serious backward steps we have seen here in a while.

How about also looking at the influence of Thaksin on the Yingluck government (lots of material on that about)?

How about critically evaluating aspects of the Yingluck governments performance?

How about looking at some of the enormous gaffs this government has made (Casino's anyone?).

The role of Chalerm (his proclamations, past, etc).

The Pheu Thai election policies/promises and how they have changed since their announcement before the election....and how unrealistic they were....(off-shore island and barrier in the Gulf of Thailand with housing development anyone? National hi-speed train network anyone?)

And on and on and on.......

Looking forward to it.

Originally Posted by Andrew Spooner

Strontium Dog

You wrote "He did claim that he would stop producing blog pieces, strangely just after Pheu Thai won the election."

As I referred to at the time the reason I suspended my blogging was due to UK police advice.

This advice came after my wife was the recipient of quite a long, nasty cyberstalking hate campaign by expats who didn't like what I was writing. This cyberstalking also included the distribution of photos of mutilated corpses with my wife's name attached to them. Someone was arrested and cautioned for these acts.

If you don't believe that I'd be happy to send you (or anyone else) evidence of the police advice, the caution and the cyberstalking. Please email asiaprovocateur (at) gmail . com

Please stick to the facts not rumours or, god forbid, anti-Spooner propaganda ;-)

I am aware of this..I watched the stalking on Twitter and I kept well away from it.

However, if you stopped for those reasons, why have you restarted now, when Pheu Thai are having a nightmare....

Just coincidence?

Bangkok Post : NACC asked to investigate Abhisit

NACC asked to investigate Abhisit

• Published: 15/11/2011 at 01:29 PM
• Online news:

Former senator Ruangkrai Leekitwattana has filed a petition with the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) asking it to investigate former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva for alleged negligence and mismanagement of water resources at the Bhumibol and Sirikit dams, causing severe flooding and damage to the country's economy.

Mr Ruangkrai said that in filing the petition, he had exercised the right of a Thai citizen as allowed under Section 62 of the constitution.

Attached to the former former senator's petition were a number of documents including copies of Mr Abhisit's speeches made to parliament, copies of the texts of Mr Abhisit's speeches made on the radio programme "Confidence in Thailand with PM Abhisit", graphs showing the statistics of the quantities of water at the two dams as recorded by the Royal Irrigation Department, and Mr Abhisit's report on Thai economic and social conditions dated Aug 4, 2011.

He alleged the documents contained information showing that Mr Abhisit, as prime minister, had mishandled the nation's water resources, causing flooding and severe damage to the country in violation of Section 157 of the constitution.

Originally Posted by Andrew Spooner

The main thrust of my work is the undermining of Thai democracy.

Keep up the good work Spooner - not many as you say are fighting back to counter all the propaganda. You might however want to edit that line above..

^I have to admit I missed that and read it the way that I am sure that andrew intended. But on closer inspection it is rather a classic example of how to compose vague english

Strontium Dog

I returned to blogging (if you take a look at the timeline you will see this is accurate) to report on ARTICLE 19's work on countering lese majeste. Not sure, given that the present government are supporting lese majeste, that could be construed as "propaganda".

I then wrote about Abhisit's holiday in the Maldives - a story which got huge coverage in the Thai press (none in the English press). My posting on this was then reprinted in full in Khao Sod and mentioned in both Thai Rath and Matichon. On Asia Correspondent the story received 10s of 1000s of hits I believe. Question is - why was I the only English language media to report on this?

So, inadvertently, it kind of took off again on its own.

Tom Sawyer

Thanks!

A couple of days ago someone accused me of being part of a "ruthlessly underhand and inhumane totalitarian agenda."

I guess they got to me!

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Still waiting for that review of Tom Plate's book on Thaksin he promised.... The Guardian and The Economist he said....quite a while ago....

Conversations With Thaksin: Amazon.ca: Tom Plate: Books

.....
This title has not yet been released.
You may pre-order it now and we will deliver it to you when it arrives.
.....
Publisher: Marshall Cavendish Trade (Dec 15 2011)
.....

Originally Posted by Andrew Spooner

A couple of days ago someone accused me of being part of a "ruthlessly underhand and inhumane totalitarian agenda."

I guess they got to me!

You should not really. That accusation seems part of the normal spectrum of abuse you will get from both red and yellow shirt zealots if you consistently don't support their view of reality.

^^Singapore being the home base of The Guardian & The Economist.....

Originally Posted by SteveCM

^^Singapore being the home base of The Guardian & The Economist.....

What?

DrBob said he was sent an advance copy to review (the book was reviewed by other sources back in September)

The hardback has been out for a while now.

The paperback is due for release on December 15th.

Originally Posted by Andrew Spooner

This advice came after my wife was the recipient of quite a long, nasty cyberstalking hate campaign

Originally Posted by Andrew Spooner

Someone was arrested and cautioned for these acts.

I think he, or a similar ilk, posts here as Mickmac.

Strontium Dog

One thing I have noticed in the general discussions held about the reporting of Thailand's political situation is that the notion of "neutrality" is highly distorted.

If one expresses a received wisdom on Thailand (eg Thaksin is evil and corrupt) this is perceived as being "neutral".

Personally I see such expressions as much more a product of "naturalisation" than "neutral objectivity". And the production of such "naturalisations" is absolutely not "neutral" but, quite clearly in the case of Thailand, the result of power struggles, selective reporting, propaganda, control of the media by the Army etc, censorship laws. No proper, objective analysis of the facts is even possible in Thailand due to restrictions. This single fact is NEVER mentioned by the English language or foreign press corps in Thailand.

Now that doesn't necessarily mean that Thaksin isn't evil and corrupt.

But the flip side is that when someone challenges the received naturalised wisdoms they are immediately accused of acting without neutrality and of being biased.

The latter is the position I find myself in.

I rock the boat and some people really hate it. That's why they stalked and threatened my family.

Strange how corruption got worse under the benign and enlighted Mark Vej than it ever was under the evil and corrupt Thaksin.