Thread: Marriage. Non Immigrant O Visa

I have been married to a Thai womn for over thirteen years. We married in the UK and she has British citizenship and British passport.

When we travel to Thailand she travels there on the British passport and wanders around Thailand with an identity card in her maiden name. There is no formal requirement for her to register her marriage or change her name and things could carry on just as they are if we remained in the UK.

On our last trip six weeks ago my wife went to Chang Wattana with our original marriage certificate which has been "legalised" by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in the UK. We paid a fee of about £ 40 for this. Immigration refused to accept this. They said that a letter should be obtained from the British Embassy which would confirm the validity of the certificate. I believe that the staff were wrong to refuse the certificate. I did not attend the office with my wife and it is probably just as well as the "jai rorn" would have kicked in.

The problem is that the Embassy say that the valididty of documents is nothing to do with them. The document is "legalised" and it does not need to be rubber-stamped by the embassy.

Has anybody else had this problem, please ? If so, what should I do to resolve it ?

Theoretically, we could ignore our marriage as it is my intention to convert to a reirement visa as soon as I can. I will have no problem in getting a visa based on marriage at my local Consulate as they don't care what my wife's name is in Thailand. However, I want here to have my name so that when I die there will be fewer complications relating to inheritance.

Any ideas, please ? I want to avoid jumping between Chang Wattana and the British Embassy quarrelling with both of them and getting nowhere fast.

Read this Can


Married in the UK and wanting to register the marriage in Thailand

Originally Posted by toddaniels

Let's try this; How about you go to a translating service, have your english marriage certificate translated into thai, get that translation certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, then go to your local Amphur and actually register the fact that a Thai got married abroad.. They'll give you a Kor Ror 22 form "certification of registration of marriage abroad" and THEN you can start down the road at Immigration's applying for an extension of stay based on marriage to a thai.

No, I think you have misunderstood me. I'll start again.

There is a bloody big performance in getting a retirement visa in the UK. I have to get criminal records check, a report from a doctor saying I haven't had elephantiasis or leprosy, spend two nights in Central London in order to see the rude people in the Embassy.

I will enter Thailand on a "marriage based" visa. The Consulate will accept my marriage certificate and issue a visa.

Then, after opening a bank account and transferring money and leaving in the bank for the requisite period I will convert to a retirement visa.

The translators in Chang Wattana, the ones inside not the Mickey Mouse ones, refused to translate the legalised document. They said a letter from the Embassy was required. My wife spoke to an Immigration official who said the same thing. I believe that both these people were wrong and that both failed to appreciate the nature of the legalised document. The Foreign Office had validated the certificate so that the Embassy don't need to.

Originally Posted by can123

There is a bloody big performance in getting a retirement visa in the UK. I have to get criminal records check, a report from a doctor saying I haven't had elephantiasis or leprosy, spend two nights in Central London in order to see the rude people in the Embassy.

Sure TD will be along to fill in the gaps, but you appear to be confusing a multiple entry O visa for a spouse, with a non immigrant extension of stay, because of having a Thai spouse.

2 different animals, have to say, I don't know if you can get a non immigrant spouse extension of stay in your home country, like to know and what you need to get it.
Over to you TD.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by can123

There is a bloody big performance in getting a retirement visa in the UK. I have to get criminal records check, a report from a doctor saying I haven't had elephantiasis or leprosy, spend two nights in Central London in order to see the rude people in the Embassy.

Sure TD will be along to fill in the gaps, but you appear to be confusing a multiple entry O visa for a spouse, with a non immigrant extension of stay, because of having a Thai spouse.

2 different animals, have to say, I don't know if you can get a non immigrant spouse extension of stay in your home country, like to know and what you need to get it.
Over to you TD.

I am not confusing anything, Jim. I just want to know how I can get my wife to use her married name legally in Thailand. The people at Chang Wattana do not seem to appreciate that the marriage certificate has been validated by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in the UK and the Embassy do not do anything. The Embassy is effectively an outstation of the Forign and Commonwealth Office. They do not validate their bosses' actions.



I will enter Thailand on a visa granted because I am married to a Thai national, no problems with getting that. Then, when I am there I will open a bank account, deposit a pile of cash and then. later, change the visa to a "retirement" one as soon I can.

Originally Posted by can123

she has British citizenship and British passport.

She's therefore no longer Thai so you can't get a Marriage Extension. This happened to a Thai woman married to a Jap that took Jap nationality. All I recall it caused big problems and she had to give up her Jap citizenship and passport.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Originally Posted by can123

she has British citizenship and British passport.

She's therefore no longer Thai so you can't get a Marriage Extension. This happened to a Thai woman married to a Jap that took Jap nationality. All I recall it caused big problems and she had to give up her Jap citizenship and passport.

Jesus Christ ! Of course she is Thai you silly bugger ! She has dual nationality.

Originally Posted by can123

I am not confusing anything, Jim. I just want to know how I can get my wife to use her married name legally in Thailand.

OK, nothing to do with immigration then.
You go to the Amphor [ district gov. offices] where her ID card was issued, house book or where her family comes from.
As TD said ["certification of registration of marriage abroad] they will issue a new ID card, same number, but married name.

With that she can change her name on her Thai passport etc. now there are some draw backs to doing this, covered in an other thread, land ownership, divorce and inheritance.

My kids have my name, wife, in Australia, married name, but here maiden name.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by can123

I am not confusing anything, Jim. I just want to know how I can get my wife to use her married name legally in Thailand.

OK, nothing to do with immigration then.
You go to the Amphor [ district gov. offices] where her ID card was issued, house book or where her family comes from.
As TD said ["certification of registration of marriage abroad] they will issue a new ID card, same number, but married name.

With that she can change her name on her Thai passport etc. now there are some draw backs to doing this, covered in an other thread, land ownership, divorce and inheritance.

My kids have my name, wife, in Australia, married name, but here maiden name.

Sorry, Jim, but I don't want to do what you have done. The amphur will not accept any certificate which is not stamped by Chang Wattana. In your case it doesn't matter as your wife uses her maiden name. I want mine to use my name so that money can be transferred without question from her account in the UK to one in Thailand. This is for house purchase and must be her money, not mine. Her bank account in the UK is in her married name.

Also, when I die I want as few problems as possible with regard to surnames and inheritance.

My wife changed her name at the amphur as soon as she came back to Thailand. We then returned to BKK to get a new passport issued. You must do it in that order. If you get married in Thailand then one of the questions is about whether wife will adopt husbands surname

I got a multi entry O from London before I entered Thailand so no hassle after that when I stayed long term the first time.

Second marriage was in Thailand and had to be in ban rak to satisfy German immigration. Translated into German but not English as it is only required to have certification in one EU country and then get a formal acceptance of marriage via visa.
Only involvement of British embassy was freedom to marry letter for the second marriage.

How about a Statutory Declaration from the British Embassy?

Originally Posted by Troy

My wife changed her name at the amphur as soon as she came back to Thailand. We then returned to BKK to get a new passport issued.

How did she do that, please ? Did she just change her name ? Did she ignore the fact that she was married ?

^ I married my first wife in England. She had a British passport. She had the marriage endorsed at the Thai embassy in London and changed her name at the local amphur based on this and her UK passport Thai ID card changed and then Thai passport.


My second marriage was in Thailand so we went the day after marriage...amphur in Isaan and marriage in bkk to satisfy the Germans.

Read the link I sent you, you dumb Welsh twat

Default Married in the UK and wanting to register the marriage in Thailand
Hi

My Thai wife and I got married in the UK last year and want to register the marriage in Thailand and get her name changed etc.

We currently live in London and I was wondering if its possible to do any of the process from over here? Everything I've read seems to involve numerous trips around Bangkok but this seems to be aimed at people living in Thailand and also largely at people married in Thailand.

I think we will need to ultimately go to my wife's home town to get her ID changed but can we go there directly without having to spend 3 or 4 days marching around Bangkok first?

Many thanks

James



bifftastic's Avatar
bifftastic said:
10th Sep 2012 10:53
Default
Hi James, welcome to the forum

The marching around Bangkok (mine was a very sedate march, more of a stroll really!) would be for people who need to supply the Thai government with the documents they require in order to marry in Thailand.

You don't need those.

As for registering the marriage in Thailand, I don't think you can. That would be the same as registering a Thai marriage in the UK. Married is married, you can only do it once, in one place.

What I suggest you do is to obtain a Thai translation of your UK marriage certificate and take that to the Amphur where your wife is registered and have her surname officially changed. Part of that procedure notes the fact that the name has been changed due to the person adopting their spouse's surname.

That will result in her having a new Thai ID card issued, a change in the Tabien Ban, and the possibility of her having a new Thai passport in her married name.

This is the part that can, potentially, cause some difficulty on the return leg of the trip as her ticket will have been issued in the name on her current passport.

In order to avoid those issues I would advise that, on this occasion, she change the ID card but not the passport.

Travel back to the UK and at a later date, contact the Thai embassy to have a new passport issued with her new surname. Again, that presents some potential difficulty with her visa being in the old passport, and this has been discussed at length here before.

I seem to remember that she can keep the old passport with her visa in it in case she needs to show it to anyone.

I may be wrong about that part

The other, more expensive, option would be for her to travel to Thailand on a one way ticket, change everything (passport included) and then book a one way flight back to the UK in her new name.

As for the translation, you can get that done here. I believe the Thai consulate in Hull offer that service. Make sure that your surname is translated to your satisfaction, it might be an idea for your wife to decide exactly how it is to be written in the Thai script. She should make a note of it and make sure that it's the same in all her Thai documents.

Good luck with it all.

Biff

Originally Posted by can123

Jesus Christ ! Of course she is Thai you silly bugger ! She has dual nationality.

A Thai woman who marries a foreign national and acquires her husband's citizenship has technically lost her Thai citizenship. Should the marriage end in death or divorce, the Thai national woman could regain her Thai citizenship. This is an unofficial dual citizenship designed to protect female Thai nationals.





Source(s):
http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/...

Don't shoot the messenger.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Originally Posted by can123

she has British citizenship and British passport.

She's therefore no longer Thai so you can't get a Marriage Extension.

I hate to call bullshit but you're talking outta your ***!

There is NO law on the books that a thai can't hold two passports or be a citizen of another country in addition to being thai <- which BTW; no matter how expired their thai passport is they can ALWAYS enter thailand on. No matter what the engrish translation says! What that thai version says, is; IF ASKED (which no one has EVER posted that their wife was asked) they must pick a nationality.. I have NEVER read a post on the inter-web related to thailand where ANY thai national was asked to pick if they want to be thai or the other country they are a citizen in..

FWIW: I just met a thai who hold US citizenship and a US passport, who entered thailand on a 8 year expired THAI passport!

ALL the O/P needs to do is have his wife change her thai I/D card where ever she got it, to reflect the name change (with what ever documentation the local Amphur wants). It's not that hard, thais change their name ALL the time..

Dillinger that was a GOOD post EXCEPT for the part where it says you can't register a marriage from abroad here in thailand.. You most certainly can, AND it's not by gettting married AGAIN here..

Originally Posted by can123

There is a bloody big performance in getting a retirement visa in the UK. I have to get criminal records check, a report from a doctor saying I haven't had elephantiasis or leprosy blah-blah-blah...

I will enter Thailand on a "marriage based" visa. The Consulate will accept my marriage certificate and issue a visa.

Then, after opening a bank account and transferring money and leaving in the bank for the requisite period I will convert to a retirement visa.

You are confusing apples with durian my posting friend..
A year-long Non-Immigrant Type-OA (long stay) is the one that requires a police check, medical cert, etc.

A Non-Immigrant Type-O doesn't..<- notice the difference? One is a Type-OA and one is a Type-O

Also the Immigration office at Chaengwattana doesn't care WHAT you got your Non-Immigrant Type-O visa for. Your NOT converting it to anything, you're applying for a yearly extension of stay based on being over 50 (called retirement).. You need to get your terminology straight or you're gonna come off the rails at every turn. Believe me those immigration officers are gonna be way harder on you than I am, so suck it up, learn something and use what you learned!

As I said, you were IN the wrong place.. While I hate to cast dispersions, despite your wife speaking thai, she doesn't have a clue where to go!! To get your recently translated into thai marriage certificate certified as a "real and semi-accurate" translation you were NOT where you needed to be.

FWIW: the Chaengwattana Government Complex is TWO GIANT buildings both built like inverted pyramids and in front of them is the Ministry of Foreign Affairs building.. It's called the กระทรวงการต่างประเทศ OR thais call it the กงสุล <- that is the thai word spelling out: "Consul" <- that's the place which certifies translations from engrish to thai. A lot of translation places in Bangkok will provide the translation into thai AND run out there to get the stamp <- for a fee!

Now after all this b/s you're just saying you want to get your thai wife to use her married name in thailand.

Christ, your wife is thai, call the government hot-line and ask them at 1111.

Originally Posted by toddaniels

ALL the O/P needs to do is have his wife change her thai I/D card where ever she got it, to reflect the name change (with what ever documentation the local Amphur wants). It's not that hard, thais change their name ALL the time..

Wrong ! I was with my wife in the Amphur when they refused to change her name. They said that it could only be done by Chang Wattana validating a translation of the marriage certificate.

Man, you come on here asking for advice and then tell people they're wrong..

I mean either you know stuff or you don't <- I'm betting it's the latter.

I'll do this once more for you using small words;
There is a year long Non-Immigrant Type-OA visa <- which requires the background check, the medical certificate, proof of funds etc. That visa has a validity for a calendar year from the date of issue and every time you enter thailand you receive a permission to stay until stamp dated a calendar year out.

FWIW: it is NOT a perilous or arduous task to get this visa and I know many, MANY people who get them every 2 years (because if you exit/re-enter just before the visa expires you get another year permission to stay stamp).

Sheesh, it can't be that frickin' hard, terry57 managed to stumble thru the process on his own and get one in Oz last year!

Then there is a Non-Immigrant Type-O (either a 90 day single entry OR a year long multi entry) <- the multi is the one you evidently have.
With the multi entry one you are limited to stays of no more than 90 days at time, after that you border-bounce to get another 90 day permission to stay stamp. You can do that for almost 15 months by border-bouncing just before the visa itself expires.

With this type Non-O, ANYTIME there are 45 days or less left on your permission to stay stamp (in Bangkok) you can apply for a yearly extension of stay. There are three choices 1) marriage to a thai national, 2) being over 50, 3) supporting thai children.

As far as your wife changing her name at the Amphur I believe I said,
GO get your marriage certificate translated into thai at any b/s translation shop. (BE WARNED: the way they translate your english name into thai both your first and your surname will then become the "official spelling of it" whether they wrote it in thai so the pronunciation is right or not).
THEN
take it and get it certified as a real and accurate translation at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs office (which is in the government complex at Chaengwattana BUT which isn't the Immigration office)!
With that she'll be able to to the the Amphur and change her name. I don't believe that they'll ask for the Kor Ror 22 (registration of marriage from abroad).. I believe they just want the MFA certified translation.

You did read where I said just how big the Government Complex at Chaengwattana is right? EVERY government entity has an office out there.. It AIN'T just Thai Immigration's.

BTW: I know the difference between aspersions and dispersions. <- I used the worng word on porpoise!

Originally Posted by toddaniels

There are currently NO thai laws on the books which prohibits a thai from buying, owning or willing land (in the event of their demise) to their children simply because that thai took a foreign surname.

We have been over this before, wife buys land in her married name, farang must sign to state he makes no claim.
Wife dies, property goes to her family, divorce, it's the wife's property, you can make no claim, once you sign your rights away.