Thread: US Stocks Plunge, Dow Falls Over 300 Points As Fears Grip Market

^ I am not that greedy or foolish

Originally Posted by blue

I'M bored ,
I want to watch the FTSE100 index falling live
anyone know a good website ?
I've got a headache trying to find one

Not a graphical of the FTSE but a 24hour rolling blog covering Asian, ME, European and US markets.

Live Blog: The U.S. Ratings Downgrade, Reaction and More - MarketBeat - WSJ

and to watch gold prices

http://goldprice.org/live-gold-price.html

Originally Posted by Bower

I take about £12,000 per month through the PDQ in my pub, it is very clear that most people are using their debit cards and not their credit cards anymore. There must be a huge reduction in personal debt, at least in the UK.

Maybe though not necessarily. It could well be that they've maxed their credit cards, so are now paying only the minimum balance (but can't charge anything more), hence the need to use their debit cards or cash now (when they have any).

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by socal

"Most people are savers, not investors or traders. Yet today we are all forced to be investors chasing a yield because there is no such thing as a perfect inflation hedge. If there were such a thing, a large portion of the "investing public" would not be anywhere near stocks and bonds. Even the most "risk free" bonds, US Treasuries, have the greatest risk of all, currency risk. And in the case of the dollar, this is exposure to a risk that, today, is well out of the hands of the currency manager thanks to seven decades of functioning as the global reserve standard.

Furthermore, a saver must look deeper than the CPI, or even its shadow-equivalent, for the real inflation that must be protected against. And that is the inflating VOLUME of savings with which one must compete. A perfect inflation hedge would not only keep up with the shadow-CPI but it would also rise in VALUE (as opposed to volume) relative to changes in aggregate monetary savings.(Gold) "

there is too much money being saved, that's why interest rates are so low and it's triggering inflation in certain areas as "savers" flee to overpriced assets such a Gold and other commodities.

There is no money being saved in the west. How could there be if every central bank has to print money to buy their own governments fucking debt ?

How come the biggest western economy has a trade deficit if there is so much saving ?

This is over your head.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

^ indeed, see this interesting WSJ article regarding the current crisis

Why This Crisis Is Different From the 2008 Financial Crisis - WSJ.com

First you say there is too much saving (when the west is at single digit savings rates) and now you agree that there is too much debt ?

Originally Posted by Butterfly

“Be Greedy When Others are Fearful” -- Warren Buffett

He sure fuct that up didn't he....

He bought the most stocks in 3 years ending June 30 2011

Originally Posted by Butterfly

^ I am not that greedy or foolish

or smart

Originally Posted by socal

First you say there is too much saving (when the west is at single digit savings rates) and now you agree that there is too much debt ?

I understand the complexity of it all is flying over your head, but surely you can understand supply and demand curves for money ?

damn, DOW is up already

bargain time is already gone !!!

Sure it will rebound today - always does the day after. But there's only one way over the medium term. DOWN.

Maybe 8,000 by January.

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

Maybe 8,000 by January

That is a little optimistic for Gold.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by socal

First you say there is too much saving (when the west is at single digit savings rates) and now you agree that there is too much debt ?

I understand the complexity of it all is flying over your head, but surely you can understand supply and demand curves for money ?

You don't have a clue.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

damn, DOW is up already

bargain time is already gone !!!

You where the one long treasuries in the other thread. And not stocks When I said to buy stocks to get out of currency risk.

Butternuts originally said-an interesting paradox

Treasurys Rally as U.S. Debt Remains Go-To Haven - WSJ.com

^

Originally Posted by OhOh

Bring back Maggie, she knew how to ruin a country and the world.

Fixed that for ya

Although I feel that the end of America is near, there is always the possibility the those dealing with this megaproblem may have a way of turning the tables on all those people playing the market against the nation. Considering history and the way people always end up losing their shirts when they think they really got it all down, I just wonder if there is something that we are all missing in this. People that work in the field of money are crafty when it comes to playing their hand. They seem to lie to their friends just to make the deal.

Okay, I don't know anything. I just happened to watch the documentary called 'Trader' from the late 80's and it made me wonder about this.

Dow Jones just dropped 280 pts at opening. Europe turning red quickly following the drop.

awesome, another fire sale for buying stocks

If you have cash. How low can stocks go? Eventually it must affect the weaker companies. Wouldn't the insiders of a smaller company going down down down want to sell out if their company is doomed? Get something before you can get nothing? Won't some of these low prices result in bigger companies acquiring other companies? If all that cash is held by companies as they say wouldn't that mean acqusitions and mergers going up?

Published on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 by The New York Times Economists Agree: Failed Policies 'Making a Total Mess of a Solvable Problem'


by Paul Krugman

To be an economist of my stripe these days — basically a Keynes-via-Hicks type, who concluded as soon as Lehman fell that we were in a classic liquidity trap with all that implied — is a bittersweet experience, with the bitter vastly greater than the sweet.
Economists and public commentators Paul Krugman, Robert Reich, and Joseph Stiglitz have all railed against the failed economic policies pursued by the White House and Congress. They are not alone in their critiques, but their voices certainly feel lonely as the dominant political culture continues to avert its eyes from their prescriptions. The good news, such as it is, is that our underlying model has performed very well. Interest rates have stayed low despite large government borrowing; crowding out has been totally absent; huge increases in the monetary base have not been highly inflationary.
The bad news is that policy makers almost everywhere have failed dismally, and seem determined not to take on board the lessons of experience, either historical or what we’ve learned the past few years. As Joe Stiglitz says,

When the recession began there were many wise words about having learnt the lessons of both the Great Depression and Japan’s long malaise. Now we know we didn’t learn a thing. Our stimulus was too weak, too short and not well designed. The banks weren’t forced to return to lending. Our leaders tried papering over the economy’s weaknesses – perhaps out of fear that if we were honest about them, already fragile confidence would erode. But that was a gamble we have now lost. Now the scale of the problem is apparent, a new confidence has emerged: confidence that matters will get worse, whatever action we take. A long malaise now seems like the optimistic scenario.

Robert Reich, talking to people in the administration, says that there has been a deliberate decision to focus on the wrong issues, knowing that they’re the wrong issues:

So rather than fight for a bold jobs plan, the White House has apparently decided it’s politically wiser to continue fighting about the deficit. The idea is to keep the public focused on the deficit drama – to convince them their current economic woes have something to do with it, decry Washington’s paralysis over fixing it, and then claim victory over whatever outcome emerges from the process recently negotiated to fix it. They hope all this will distract the public’s attention from the President’s failure to do anything about continuing high unemployment and economic anemia.

And in Europe, says Kantoos Economics, a low inflation target has become a sacred icon even though all evidence – including the experience under the gold standard! — says that this will be fatal:

I sincerely do hope that I read the wrong newspapers and missed all those European economists and commentators screaming all these things (or even better: that I am wrong). But whenever I try to hear something, there is just silence – or Axel Weber lashing out at Olivier Blanchard. Meanwhile, European policy makers and central bankers are wrecking one of the most fascinating projects in human history, the unity and friendship among the countries of Europe. This is beyond depressing. Way beyond.

I’m still trying to make sense of this global intellectual failure. But the results are not in question: we are making a total mess of a solvable problem, with consequences that will haunt us for decades to come.

© 2011 The New York Times

Link

Originally Posted by OhOh

Disappointing day for gold yesterday only up $40.

Still we have 2 years of 0% interest rates because the Feds have aknowledged the coming depression, we have QE3 to be unleashed to help the "stocks" rally

Lastly the Feds committee who voted are now split as well. They can now join the politicians to add uncertainty to the market mix.

Bring back Maggie, she knew how to run a country and the world.

Gold is cheap.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

awesome, another fire sale for buying stocks

When the DOW was up almost 500 yesterday, priced in Swiss Francs, it was down. Priced in gold, it was down.

Good luck outrunning gold.

Originally Posted by socal

Gold is cheap.

Agreed - gold in your hand, electronic gold dubious.