Thread: Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship

Originally Posted by Panda

Quote: Originally Posted by superman Quote: Originally Posted by Panda Since when has the Australian navy been hijacking foreign cargo ships in international waters under force of arms ? When searching for illegal immigrants ? Most countries do it on a daily basis. Not only for illegals but for drugs, weapons and other forms of smuggling. Australia currently intercept 'illegals' in international waters and return them to their country of origin. If they get caught in Australian waters they can automatically ask for asylum. So Australia, and others, intercept them on the high seas. Can you justify that statement with a link?

Sorry I can't find my original source. Found this."Australian military has been used several times to stop ships of illegal immigrants, refusing them entry into the Australian territory" http://blog.gale.com/speakinggloball...-in-australia/ Stopping them before they enter Australian waters sounds like International waters to me.

Originally Posted by Panda

Originally Posted by superman

Originally Posted by Panda

Since when has the Australian navy been hijacking foreign cargo ships in international waters under force of arms ?

When searching for illegal immigrants ? Most countries do it on a daily basis. Not only for illegals but for drugs, weapons and other forms of smuggling. Australia currently intercept 'illegals' in international waters and return them to their country of origin. If they get caught in Australian waters they can automatically ask for asylum. So Australia, and others, intercept them on the high seas.

Can you justify that statement with a link?

Australia does not forcibly intercept anybody in international waters as it would be a highly illegal act of piracy under international maritime law.

The Australian navy has intercepted many illegal immigrants and illegal fishermen in Australian territorial waters near Ashmore Reef, which does happen to be in the middle of nowhere halfway between Indonesia and Australia.

Do you honestly believe that defense officials will wait for a sea vessel to enter the 12 mile limit, which is the conventional demarcation, before they will intervene? Almost every intercept of a vessel whether it is off the coast of the USA, Australia, Canada, New Zealand etc. usually happens well outside this line. The reasons are attributable to;
- National security: If there are escapees, or dangerous cargo, the further away from shore the better the intercept
- Ease of containment: It is easier to surveille and contain when the bad guys aren't close to shore.

Here's the Australian Navy's position. What part of this do you not comprehend?

Further up the threat scale, ACPBs contribute to the national task of fisheries protection as part of the Border Protection Command (BPC) managed national effort. Other tasks for BPC involve maritime barrier operations, which include the prevention of illegal immigration, supporting anti-smuggling operations conducted by Federal and State police agencies, and assisting in Australia’s quarantine effort. Currently there are seven ACPBs assigned to Operation RESOLUTE, the ADF’s contribution to the whole of government effort to protect Australia’s borders and offshore maritime interests. Two additional ACPBs are available should the threat level warrant further response capability.[3] Each year Australian patrol boats respond to hundreds of foreign vessel sightings. They routinely intercept and board vessels suspected of breaching Australian laws. Examination and inspection by trained and experienced patrol boat boarding parties may result in the apprehension of the vessels concerned


The Armidale class vessels, while designated multi purpose have an extended range which was specifically intended to allow offshore operations.
Again, the issue of the intercept is moot as the precedent has already been set. Nor does the interdiction meet the legal requirements for piracy or hijacking. You can call it an agressive or stupid act with dire consequences etc., but it doesn't meet the definition of piracy.

BBC News - Witnesses cast doubt on Israel's convoy raid account

Witnesses cast doubt on Israel's convoy raid account

Page last updated at 16:04 GMT, Tuesday, 1 June 2010 17:04 UK


Israeli army footage showing the violence on board the flotilla - the captions and circled points on this video were inserted by the Israeli army

Eyewitness accounts from ships raided by Israeli commandos have cast doubt on Israel's version of events that led to the deaths of at least 10 people.
German pro-Palestinian activist Norman Paech said he had only seen wooden sticks being brandished as troops abseiled on to the deck of the ship.
Israel says its soldiers were attacked with "knives, clubs and other weapons" and opened fire in self defence.
The raid led to widespread condemnation and the UN has called for an inquiry.

LEGALITY OF CONVOY RAID

• The UN Charter on the Law of the Sea says only if a vessel is suspected to be transporting weapons, or weapons of mass destruction, can it be boarded in international waters. Otherwise the permission of the ship's flag carrying nation must be sought.
• The charter allows for naval blockades, but the effect of the blockade on civilians must be proportionate to the effect on the military element for the blockade to be legally enforceable.
• A ship trying to breach a blockade can be boarded and force may be used to stop it as long as it is "necessary and proportionate".
• The Israeli Defense Forces say soldiers acted in self-defence.
• An investigation, either by the UN or by the ship's flag-carrier Turkey, is required to find if the use of force was proportionate to a claim of self defence.

Profile: Free Gaza Movement
Q&A: Israeli raid on aid flotilla
Israeli raid: What went wrong?
Guide: Gaza under blockade
Convoy raid sparks press fury
In pictures: Aid flotilla raid protests


The six ships, carrying aid and campaigners, had sailed from Cyprus in a bid to break Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip.
"This was not an act of self-defence," said Mr Paech, a politician, as he arrived back in Berlin wrapped in a blue blanket.
"Personally I saw two and a half wooden batons that were used... There was really nothing else. We never saw any knives.
"This was an attack in international waters on a peaceful mission... This was a clear act of piracy," he added.
Fellow German activist Inge Hoeger said they had been on the ships "for peaceful purposes".

"We wanted to transport aid to Gaza," she said. "No-one had a weapon."
She added: "We were aware that this would not be a simple cruise across the sea to deliver the goods to Gaza. But we did not count on this kind of brutality."
Activist Bayram Kalyon, arriving back in Istanbul, had been a passenger on the Turkish passenger ship Mavi Marmara where most, if not all, of the deaths occurred.

"The captain... told us 'They are firing randomly, they are breaking the windows and entering inside. So you should get out of here as soon as possible'. That was our last conversation with him."
Diplomatic sources in Ankara have said at least four of those killed were Turkish. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the assault was a "bloody massacre" and must be punished. He said Israel should not test Turkey's patience.



UN criticism

Further criticism of Israel came from UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon on Tuesday.
In an interview with the AFP news agency he said Israel's blockade of Gaza was responsible for the deadly raid.
"Had Israelis heeded to my call and to the call of the international community by lifting the blockade of Gaza, this tragic incident would not have happened," he said.
Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen called on Israel to release people and boats it had seized.
He spoke after an emergency meeting of Nato ambassadors in Brussels called by Turkey.

Renewed violence broke out in Gaza on Tuesday, with five Palestinians reportedly killed by Israeli fire.
Two Palestinian gunmen were shot dead after crossing the border in the south of the territory, a military spokesman said.
Three more people died in an Israeli strike in the north of Gaza, according to Gaza's emergency services. Israel said it carried out an air strike after two rockets were fired from Gaza.

Following the Israeli sea-born raid, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak ordered the border crossing between Egypt and the Gaza Strip to be opened.
The Rafah crossing has been closed since 2007, although special medical cases are occasionally allowed through.
The Egyptian state news agency said the latest opening was to allow humanitarian aid through. It is not clear how long it will be kept open.
The UN Security Council issued a statement after deliberating through the night.
It said an investigation should be "prompt, impartial, credible and transparent". It also condemned the "acts" which led to the deaths.


At the end of the incident at least 10 activists were dead. Israel escorted the flotilla to the port of Ashdod and detained the protesters. An online maritime tracking map shows the route taken by the boats.


Barbara Plett, the BBC's UN correspondent in New York, said the statement was the result of a compromise between Turkey and the US, Israel's closest ally.
In its defence, Israel released footage showing soldiers landing on the Turkish ship and being apparently attacked.


Captain Aria Shaliker of the Israel Defense Forces, who was part of Monday's operation, says the commandos began the raids armed with paint ball guns.

"I was, myself, on one of the boats, the Israeli boats, approaching the flotilla," he told the BBC's World Today programme.
"It is true that the Israeli commander unit... came on board with paint ball weapons... in order to disperse [people] if there was violence. They were ready for a violent... demonstration on board the flotilla, especially on the big boat, the Marmara.
"No-one really expected that there would be such a violent outcome of what happened.

The Security Council deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries resulting from the use of force during the Israeli military operation in international waters against the convoy sailing to Gaza
UN Security Council statement UN text on Israel convoy raid Send us your comments


"First, you know, the soldiers tried to disperse, but in the end when they were shot at, you know when there was shooting... from the other side, there's no other way than turning from paint ball to live ammunition."
Of the 679 activists brought to the Israeli port of Ashdod, only 50 agreed to be voluntarily deported and more than 30 are being treated in hospital for their injuries, reports the BBC's Wyre Davies in Jerusalem.
That means that almost 600 people, from several countries, are still being held in detention centres across Israel and being questioned by the authorities.

AT THE SCENE



Jon Donnison
BBC News, Israel


Here at Beersheva prison in the Negev Desert, in the sweltering heat, a procession of foreign diplomats and lawyers has been trying to gain access to the prisoners.
Most have been let in and so has a party from the International Red Cross. Those who have come out have not said much more than that they have been able to see their prisoners.
Behind the blue and white 8m-high concrete walls, more than 600 people are being held.
For how long and to what purpose is not yet clear. Perspiring journalists can be seen scanning the Israeli newspapers, the headlines reading "Botched raid on Free Gaza Flotilla" and "Flotilla Fiasco".



HOW ISRAEL RAID UNFOLDED

The flotilla of six ships, including the Turkish ferry Mavi Marmara, was on its way from Cyprus to Gaza carrying supplies including cement, paper and water purification tablets.



As the flotilla, still in international waters, neared Gaza, Israeli commandos intercepted the boats from air and sea. This image shows a soldier rappelling from a helicopter onto the upper deck of the ferry.


The Israelis say their soldiers were set upon and beaten with bats, chairs and metal poles as soon as they boarded the Mavi Marmara. Activists say the soldiers attacked them first.



As the incident escalated, the Israelis used live weapons on the activists, although the exact circumstances are unclear. This still from Turkish TV footage shows first aid being given to an injured activist.