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  1. #2526
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    That is why I considerately provided multiple sources 'arry- so you can pick one, and call it Russian propaganda.

  2. #2527
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    That is why I considerately provided multiple sources 'arry- so you can pick one, and call it Russian propaganda.
    Here's what one of your links now says:

    'Barracks strike' claim was successful Russian propaganda - but why did Moscow make it?
    Analysis by Alex Rossi, international correspondent

    The fact that you are reading this speaks to the success of Russian propaganda. Its MoD report of a massive air strike killing 600 Ukrainian soldiers in Kramatorsk is almost certainly a grotesque untruth.

    But for Russia it matters not.

    As a work of misinformation it's out there and will work it’s way through social media and mainstream news sites.

    If people do believe it so much the better, but it’s not really the point.

    As long you doubt everything everyone says it’s a victory for the propagandists.

    You are assailed by information and don't know what’s true.

    1: In this instance it's quite easy to debunk. Images of the site itself show a place of very limited destruction.

    2: Kramatorsk is easy to get to - so reality can be verified.

    3: The claim is not consistent with Ukrainian military practice. 600 troops don’t bunk up in artillery range, they disperse.

    4: It's been emphatically denied by the Ukrainians who’ve issued this statement.

    "The Russian information is not true. Russian army attacked Kramatorsk with seven missiles at 11.30pm yesterday. But it did not have any impact on the Ukrainian army" Serhii Cherevatyi, spokesperson of Ukrainian Joint Forces.

    The information though also has a market inside Russia. The regime is desperate for a victory, especially after the huge loss of troops in Makiivka on New Year's Eve.

    The claim of a revenge attack then will be packaged for domestic consumption on TV news bulletins, where a substantial chunk of the population will digest it unquestioningly.

    But there is something else in it.

    Moscow sees its force as one of the greatest army’s in the world, so surely making up victories - even of clear propaganda design - does smack of desperation.
    Originally Posted by sabang
    Maybe Canada should join Nato.

  3. #2528
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    You are assailed by information and don't know what’s true.
    I know that is very true.

    P.S:- Which link?

  4. #2529
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    P.S:- Which link?
    The Sky News one.

    And Ukraine doesn't put that many troops in barracks near the frontline. That bit of propaganda isn't aimed at you, me, or the West. It's for Russian consumption only.

  5. #2530
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Russia claims to have hit Ukrainian troop accommodation in revenge attack, 'killing 600 servicemen'


    The lies just keep flowing as he continues to flood the thread with propaganda, knowing full well that this thread is currently very lightly moderated.

    Quote Originally Posted by pickel View Post
    And Ukraine doesn't put that many troops in barracks near the frontline.
    Only the Russians are that stupid.

  6. #2531
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    Moscow to mobilize 500,000 new conscripts, Kyiv military intelligence says

    Ukrainian intelligence officials are warning that the Kremlin plans a new mobilization wave for up to 500,000 men to fight in Ukraine starting in mid-January.


    The new conscription drive, which would be larger than last autumn’s Russian draft of 300,000, would include a push in big cities, including some strategic industrial centers in Russia, Andriy Cherniak, an official with the Main Military Intelligence Directorate of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry, told POLITICO on Saturday.


    Russian President Vladimir Putin in December said a suggested new conscription wave would be pointless as currently only 150,000 previously mobilized soldiers have been deployed in the invasion of Ukraine. The rest are still training or serving in the Russian rear.

    Russia announced the end of the earlier “partial” mobilization of 300,000 men on October 31. But Cherniak claimed that Moscow has continued secret conscription all along.

    Now, Ukrainian military intelligence expects a new major wave of official mobilization might begin after January 15.


    “This time the Kremlin will mobilize residents of big cities, including the strategic industries centers all over Russia,” Cherniak said. “This will have a very negative impact on the already suffering Russian economy.”


    Moscow plans to use the 500,000 extra conscripts in a possible new massive offensive against Ukraine, the Guardian reported, citing Vadym Skibitsky, deputy chief of Ukrainian military intelligence.


    The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine reported that Russia has seen more than 100,000 soldiers killed in action in Ukraine. The latest blow that Moscow’s army has endured was in Makiivka, a town in the occupied part of Donetsk Oblast, where hundreds of newly conscripted Russian soldiers were killed or wounded in a high-precision strike by Ukrainian forces on January 1. Although the number of casualties cannot be verified independently, the Russian Defense Ministry acknowledged the deaths of 89 soldiers, which makes it the biggest one-time military loss recognized by Moscow in the Ukraine war.


    Ukrainian Armed Forces Chief Commander Valery Zaluzhnyy, in a December interview with the Economist, said Russia will conduct a new attempt at a massive offensive against Ukraine in February-March 2023. It might not start in Donbas, but in the direction of Kyiv through Belarus.

    Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has said that Ukraine keeps watching Russian steps in all directions.


    “Russia will not be able to conceal in silence its preparations for a new wave of aggression against Ukraine and the whole of Europe. The world will know in all details — how and when the aggressor is preparing a new escalation in this war,” Zelenskyy said in an evening video statement on January 5.


    “And every new mobilization step of Russia will be known to the world even before Russia makes it,” Zelenskyy said. “We will ensure this.”

    Moscow to mobilize 500,000 new conscripts, Kyiv military intelligence says – POLITICO

  7. #2532
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    100 prisoners of war exchanged between Russia and Ukraine


    Russia and Ukraine carried out a prisoner exchange Sunday with a total of 100 soldiers returning to their respective home countries, according to authorities from both countries.


    As a result of the negotiation process, 50 Russian soldiers captured by Ukraine were returned to Russia, Russian defense ministry said in a statement.


    Andriy Yermak, head of the Ukrainian presidential office confirmed the exchange, saying that 50 Ukrainian soldiers captured by Russia returned home.


    “We returned the people who were captured at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, as well as the defenders of Mariupol, the guys from the Donetsk direction, from near Bakhmut, as well as from Kyiv, Chernihiv, Kherson and other regions,” Yermak said in a statement.


    “This is not the last exchange. Our task is to return all our people and we will fulfill it,” he said.


    This is the 36th exchange between Russia and Ukraine since the beginning of the full-scale Russian invasion, with 1,646 people -- military and civilians -- returned home to Ukraine, according to the Coordination Headquarters on the Treatment of Prisoners of War in Kyiv.

    January 8, 2023 Russia-Ukraine news

  8. #2533
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    That is why I considerately provided multiple sources 'arry- so you can pick one, and call it Russian propaganda.
    Sabang, your idea of multiple sources is posting a Cuban government site that's quoting a Russian government site, then claiming that is "multiple sources" -
    You complete imbecile.

  9. #2534
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Only the Russians are that stupid.
    Actually, like I said earlier, sabang is dumb enough to believe some of it.

  10. #2535
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    Nice to have it confirmed that 'arry considers even Sky news and Reuters to be Russian propaganda, when they report what he doesn't like to hear.

  11. #2536
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    KYIV, Ukraine — Ukrainian soldiers are in a "difficult" situation as Russian forces amass near the fiercely contested front line town of Soledar, a top defense official said Sunday in Kyiv. Holding on to Soledar and Bakhmut, about nine miles apart, is vital to Ukraine keeping its defensive wall that protects Sloviansk and Kramatorsk, major cities in the eastern Donbas region still under Kyiv's control. Taking the cities would be tantamount to conquering the Donbas — one of Russia's publicly stated goals at the start of the war. "At the moment it is difficult in Soledar," Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Maliar wrote on her Telegram channel on Sunday. She said Russia is launching attacks via the regular army and mercenaries from the shadowy Wagner Group. Russian military blogs recently reported a breakthrough of the defense lines in Soledar, but this has not yet been confirmed by Moscow.


    Read more at: Ukrainian soldiers in ‘difficult’ situation in key Donbas area, Kyiv says | Miami Herald

    The next post may be brought to you by my little bitch Spamdreth

  12. #2537
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Nice to have it confirmed that 'arry considers even Sky news and Reuters to be Russian propaganda, when they report what he doesn't like to hear.
    Yeah, throwing the odd legit story in there because you're being constantly ridiculed for posting propaganda nonsense - nice try.


  13. #2538
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    Multiple sources, but they all quote the Russian MoD, so all of these different stories actually just quote one original source.

    Actually, this is a problem will all modern 'journalists'. Very few of them actually do original reporting, almost all news writers (I hesitate to call them reporters), simply quote a single source without any effort to verify the news that they are repeating. It's ironic that we now have access to hundreds of newspapers and magazines, but actually read less real reporting than we did in the past.

  14. #2539
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
    Multiple sources, but they all quote the Russian MoD, so all of these different stories actually just quote one original source.

    Actually, this is a problem will all modern 'journalists'. Very few of them actually do original reporting, almost all news writers (I hesitate to call them reporters), simply quote a single source without any effort to verify the news that they are repeating. It's ironic that we now have access to hundreds of newspapers and magazines, but actually read less real reporting than we did in the past.
    Cost cutting. A lot of papers like the Post subscribe to AP or Reuters and just cut and paste whatever they report.

    By the same token, I don't generally post anything from Ukrainian government sources and their ilk because obviously they have an interest in bigging up their side of it too.

  15. #2540
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    I don't generally post anything from Ukrainian government sources and their ilk because obviously they have an interest in bigging up their side of it too.
    That may be the case, but they are not even on the same planet as Russia is when it comes to propaganda.

    In this case, the Russian MOD did what it always does when Russia gets its teeth kicked in. It fabricates some massive casualty revenge attack and if the can get someone like Sabang to fall for it then it is icing on the cake, but it is primarily meant for a domestic audience within Russia upset about the fact that hundreds of their troops actually did get killed in Makiivka.

  16. #2541
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    No sign of casualties after Russia claims revenge attack on Ukrainian soldiers

    No surprise here...

    KRAMATORSK, Ukraine, Jan 8 (Reuters) - A Russian missile attack on the Ukrainian city of Kramatorsk missed its targets and there were no obvious signs of casualties, a Reuters reporter said on Sunday, after Moscow claimed the strike killed 600 Ukrainian soldiers.

    A Reuters team visited two college dormitories that Moscow said had been temporarily housing Ukrainian personnel and which it had targeted as revenge for a New Year's attack that killed scores of Russian soldiers and caused outcry in Russia.

    But neither dormitory in the eastern city of Kramatorsk appeared to have been directly hit or seriously damaged. There were no obvious signs that soldiers had been living there and no sign of bodies or traces of blood.

    Serhiy Cherevatyi, a Ukrainian military spokesperson for the eastern region, described the claim of mass casualties as an attempt by the Russian defence ministry to show it had responded forcefully to Ukraine's recent strikes on Russian soldiers.

    "This is an information operation of the Russian defense ministry," Cherevatyi told Ukrainian broadcaster Suspilne News.

    Authorities in Kyiv did not immediately comment. Kramatorsk's mayor earlier said there had been no casualties.

    As Moscow's invasion of Ukraine grinds towards the one-year mark, Russia's military is under domestic pressure for battlefield successes. Hawkish voices have sought an escalation of the war effort after setbacks including loss of captured territory and high rates of death and injury.

    Bad winter weather has hindered fighting on the front lines, although a cold snap that freezes and hardens up the ground could pave the way for both sides to launch offensives with heavy equipment, Serhiy Haidai, governor of Ukraine's Luhansk region said.

    There have also been growing concerns that Belarus - a close ally of the Kremlin - could be used as a staging post to attack Ukraine from the north after military activity including planned joint aviation drills in the country and a fresh transfer of Russian troops there.

    REVENGE ATTACK

    Russia's defence ministry, in a statement, said the strike on the buildings in Kramatorsk was a revenge operation for the deadly Ukrainian attack last week on a Russian barracks in Makiivka, in part of the Donetsk region controlled by Moscow's forces, in which at least 89 servicemen were killed.

    It said Moscow had used what it called reliable intelligence to target the Ukrainian troops. More than 700 Ukrainian troops had been housed in one hostel and more than 600 in another, it said.

    "As a result of a massive missile strike on these temporary deployment points of Ukrainian army units, more than 600 Ukrainian servicemen were destroyed," the defence ministry said.

    If true, it would be the single largest loss of Ukrainian troops since Russia invaded on Feb. 24 last year. Neither side in the war, now in its eleventh month, usually disclose losses.

    Ukraine was believed to have stopped housing troops close together in single facilities after a deadly Russian missile strike on a base in western Ukraine in March which killed dozens.

    The practice of housing soldiers all together came into focus too after Ukraine's New Year's Day strike, with Russian military commanders subject to fierce criticism inside Russia for not dispersing their forces.

    'A NORMAL DAY'

    In Kramatorsk, residents in the populated area around the dormitories described the force of the explosion that rocked their homes overnight but said it was not out of the ordinary for the region, close to the eastern front.

    The residents said they heard explosions shortly after 11 p.m. local time - midnight Moscow time - when a ceasefire declared by Russia for Eastern Orthodox Christmas had been due to end.

    The Russian statement named two buildings, the dormitory of a site called College No.47 and a dormitory affiliated with College No.28, both in Kramatorsk.

    Reuters visuals showed some of the windows broken at the College No.47 dormitory. There was a large crater in the courtyard. The windows of the nearby college had been smashed.

    The College No.28 dormitory was entirely intact. A crater lay about 50 metres away from it closer to some garages. Some of the college's windows were smashed.

    "It was very loud, it threw people out of their beds. Some people hurt their fingers because of the blast wave," said Polina, 74, a resident who lives across from one of the dormitories.

    "There was an explosion, and then another explosion. The windows shook... Really, there's nothing else to tell you. Just a normal day," said Mykhailo, a 41-year-old resident.

    Oleksandr Honcharenko, Kramatorsk's mayor, said the attack had damaged two educational facilities and eight apartment buildings and garages but that there had been no casualties.

    Pavlo Kyrylenko, Ukraine's governor of Donetsk, had said earlier that Russia had launched seven missile strikes on Kramatorsk.

    Russia has repeatedly shelled Kramatorsk, which is also in the Donetsk region, one of four regions Moscow claims to have formally incorporated into Russia, something Ukraine and most countries in the world do not recognise.

    Kramatorsk lies a few miles northwest of Bakhmut, a small city which Russia has been trying to take for more than five months in a brutal battle which has become the scene of some of the fiercest fighting in recent weeks.

    Ukrainian officials earlier said at least two people had been killed elsewhere in Russian overnight bombing after the unilateral Russian Orthodox Christmas ceasefire had expired.

    A 50-year-old man had been killed in the northeastern region of Kharkiv, Oleh Synehubov, the governor of the region, said on the Telegram messaging app.

    Another person had been killed in overnight attack on Soledar, close to Bakhmut, local officials said.

    No sign of casualties after Russia claims revenge attack on Ukrainian soldiers | Reuters

  17. #2542
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    More propaganda debunked...

    Sen. Angus King says that on his recent trip to Ukraine, he asked Pres. Zelenskyy about the accounting of U.S. military aid. "I was very impressed by the level of accountability and so this argument that somehow the money's being wasted, I don't think holds water," King says.
    https://twitter.com/FaceTheNation/st...41639723540481

  18. #2543
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  19. #2544
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    It's good that Sky published this because sabang considers it a trusted source.

    Pro-war bloggers hit out at 'fictional' Kremlin claim of 600 deaths

    By Diana Magnay, Moscow correspondent

    The air of desperation behind Russia's claim of a massive strike on Ukrainian facilities in Kramatorsk and the supposed deaths of 600 Ukrainian servicemen, seemingly false according to satellite images of intact dormitory buildings, has not been lost on Russia's pro-war military bloggers.

    "Instead of the real destruction of enemy personnel, which would have been a worthy response, a fictional retaliatory operation was invented for the media," said the Military Informer telegram channel, widely reposted across the pro-war blogosphere.

    "Six hundred! Can you count?" wrote another popular account, the Grey Zone, questioning the numbers.


    "About a hundred more died in the hospital from heart failure after viewing Konashenkov's reports." (Lt-Gen Igor Konashenkov is the Russian Defence Ministry spokesman and face of its daily briefings.)


    Russia's Defence Ministry issued another "emergency" statement late on Sunday claiming that Ukrainian intelligence had opened graves in cemeteries in the Kharkiv region, disfigured the bodies of civilians and thrown them into pits to "create false 'evidence' of 'torture' and 'shooting' of civilians allegedly committed by Russian servicemen".


    The information war continues.

    Ukraine war - latest: Russia's military bloggers hit out at 'fictional' Kremlin claim that strike killed 600 Ukrainian troops - and journalist visits 'untouched' site | World News | Sky News

  20. #2545
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    He said/ She said innit?

    3h ago21.15 AEDT
    Russia says it is confident the defence ministry was correct when it said that 600 Ukrainian servicemen had been “destroyed” in an attack on the city of Kramatorsk, despite reporting which showed the attack missed its target.
    “The Kremlin has absolute confidence, I would like to remind you of the president’s words that the main source of information is the ministry of defence”, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters in a daily briefing on Monday, according to Reuters.
    Earlier, the Guardian reported the mayor of Kramatorsk, the eastern Ukrainian town Russia said it had targeted, said earlier on Sunday via Facebook that nobody had been killed in an attack on various buildings in the city.
    The ministry previously said the strike was revenge for Ukraine’s New Year’s Day attack that killed at least 89 Russian soldiers
    Russia-Ukraine war live: Russians hit village market in deadly missile attack; reports UK considering supplying Ukraine with tanks | Ukraine | The Guardian

  21. #2546
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    He said/ She said innit?
    Yeah but it was Russians wot said it, innit.

  22. #2547
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    Popular German influencer covers the war in Ukraine: 'It's not the Russians who are the bad guys'
    'The Russians are in the process of disarming the Nazis,' says 29-year-old Alina Lipp from the back seat of a vehicle in a Russian military convoy.


    OF DR'S
    CORRESPONDENT IN GERMANY
    Michael Reiter
    TODAY AT 11:31 am

    Populaer tysk influencer daekker krigen i Ukraine: ’Det er ikke russerne, der er de onde’ | Udland | DR
    The thunderous, deep booms of artillery fire are not audible on the mobile recordings. They mix with the sound of Alina Lipp's rapid breathing as she films herself on foot through a ruined landscape.

    - I really wanted to say something, but it makes so much noise, she says and laughs into the camera.

    The 29-year-old German calls himself a war correspondent. She covers the war in Ukraine, not least in the eastern Donbas region, where the bloody battles between Ukrainians and Russians are particularly fierce.

    But her reports are not broadcast on German TV stations' newscasts. Instead, she posts her videos on social media. Alina Lipp is first and foremost a popular influencer.

    - I have lived in Donbas for a year now and have really just filmed what is happening there. Donbas was such an unknown black hole in German media, and I wanted to fill that hole, she says on a Skype connection from Russia.



    Mouthpiece for Putin

    Since the start of the war, Alina Lipp's following has grown from a few thousand to now upwards of 200,000. So she has been good at filling the gap. She has clearly hit a need, despite – or perhaps because of – her message.

    What Alina Lipp tells her followers about the war in Ukraine is the opposite world of what Western journalists report. Whether she's interviewing locals or filming their destroyed cities, the message is always the same.

    - This war and what you see behind me are the consequences of a National Socialist government in Ukraine, says Alina Lipp, for example, in a mobile video that has the ruins of the eastern Ukrainian city of Mariupol as a backdrop.

    - It's really true. It's not the Russians who are the bad guys. To put it squarely, the Russians are in the process of disarming the Nazis, she states, as she follows a Russian military convoy in a conquered area.

    These are words that could have come out of the mouth of Vladimir Putin or his propaganda mouthpiece in Russian ministries and media. What has taken many in Germany by surprise is that the words come from a bright, young German woman who was on her way to a political career in her home country.


    Alina Lipp "thinks that much of what Putin says makes a lot of sense when you listen to the full translation". She calls it "an eye opener for a lot of people".

    Discriminated as half-Russian

    Alina Lipp was born in the German city of Hamburg. She is the daughter of a German mother and a Russian father who fell for each other in the wake of the fall of the Berlin Wall.

    - After I left school, I started to take an interest in my father's homeland. I lived for several months with my grandmother in Saint Petersburg and learned to speak Russian. I returned to Russia several times. I traveled around the country and ended up falling in love with it, she explains.

    Alina Lipp says that as a child she was never discriminated against because of her Russian background. But that changed in 2014 when Russia invaded the Ukrainian peninsula of Crimea. Allegedly, many in Germany suddenly began to look askance at people like her and her father. Alina Lipp claims that it was mainly due to one-sided German media coverage of the conflict in Crimea.

    - The exclusion of Russians in Germany and the condemnation you felt only because of your nationality, it hit me really hard. And I found that when I discussed with people, I came more and more to adopt a pro-Russian position, explains Alina Lipp.

    She had just completed a master's degree in climate and sustainability. She had become active in the German environmental party De Gronne. But when her father chose to emigrate to Russia, she followed. First to Crimea, where she initially filmed her daily life and travels on the peninsula for social media.

    Then to Donbas, where she began to depict the horrors of war from the Russian side of the front

    A successful product' for the Kremlin

    The fact that Alina Lipp films her experiences with her mobile phone makes the reports seem immediate and authentic. The fact that she puts herself in the foreground – selfie-style – like so many other young influencers, makes it easy to identify with her. She seems completely ordinary.

    She calls herself an independent journalist, and perhaps she appears that way. But a closer examination of her videos paints a different picture.

    Although Alina Lipp claims she can travel freely on the Russian side of the front, she is almost always surrounded by Putin's combat troops. She rides along in their military convoys and follows in their footsteps through conquered cities and lands. When she interviews locals, she is usually flanked by Russian soldiers ready to shoot.

    It apparently intimidates several of the people she talks to. They can hardly do anything but answer affirmatively to her leading question, whether everything has improved now that the Russians have moved in.

    In several cases, you even see security guards interfering with Alina Lipp's recordings. Black-gloved hands push her and the camera forward when she films something she's not allowed to. They move her into place so that she is right in the picture.

    They put cans in her hands, which she has to give to war-torn locals while the camera rolls. It shines through that Alina Lipp is influenced or perhaps even controlled in her coverage of the war in Ukraine.

    - Seen from the Kremlin's point of view, Alina Lipp is a successful product, exactly as you want it to be. An attractive young woman you like to look at and listen to.

    This is the assessment of Danilo Höpfner from the Russian human rights organization Memorial - in a feature on pro-Russian influencers that the German television station ZDF showed in the autumn. Others call Alina Lipp a "propaganda horn" or "Putin's useful YouTube weapon".

    The criticism of the 29-year-old is consistent in virtually all German media. And it is becoming more and more pronounced, as more and more followers gather around her.

    Support for Russia is growing

    A new study by the German think tank CEMAS gives an idea of ​​why Alina Lipp's popularity is growing. It shows that people south of the border are increasingly opening up to the pro-Russian messages that are repeated in her videos and written posts on social media.

    For example, as many as 40 percent of surveyed Germans fully or partially agree with the influencer when she claims that NATO provoked the war and that Russia was forced to invade Ukraine.

    24 percent agree that the war was necessary - to remove a so-called fascist Ukrainian regime. Both figures have advanced by around ten percent compared to a similar survey shortly after the start of the war.

    The growing support for Russia and its messages is felt not only on social media, but also in German reality. Admittedly, a large majority of Germans continue to support Ukraine. But since the start of the war, more and more pro-Russian demonstrations have popped up all over the map - not least in the eastern part of Germany.

    For example, in Leipzig, on a Saturday at the end of last year.



    One of the city's central squares has been transformed into a billowing sea of ​​Russian flags. Some participants have striped ribbons on their lapels, signaling support for the Russian invasion.

    Others present posters where America's Uncle Sam is a zombie and America's soldiers have faces like skulls. "Ami go home" - American go home - is what the posters say, referring to the troops still in Germany.

    Heino Zech is a pensioner and often comes to the pro-Russian demonstrations. He grew up in Leipzig, when eastern Germany was called the GDR and was a communist dictatorship occupied by soldiers of the Soviet Union.

    - The Russians have always been good to us, he states.

    - They don't want to go to war with us. They just want to live in peace and trade, says Torsten Seefluth, another protester.


    Demonstrator Torsten Seefluth:
    - If Germans and Russians stood together, we would be invincible, states Kerstin Woiton, who also grew up in the GDR.

    Germans generally more open to Russia
    These are attitudes that do not surprise Josef Holnburger, one of the researchers behind the think tank CEMAS' new study.

    - In Germany there is a particularly fertile breeding ground for Russian disinformation, he says.

    Because the Germans are generally more open to Russia than, for example, the Danes are, he assesses.

    According to Josef Holnburger, this is mainly due to the fact that Germans and Russians have established close cultural ties that go back several centuries. When Peter the Great was Russian tsar in the 17th century, many German farmers, craftsmen and academics began emigrating to Russia, for example.

    After World War II, the Soviet Union shaped the communist satellite state of the GDR, where Russian was the first foreign language in elementary school, and top politicians were educated in Moscow. The East Germans were indoctrinated to see the Russians and the Soviet state as role models.

    When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, many of the emigrants of the past returned to Germany. They became "Russlanddeutsche" - Russian Germans - one of the largest minorities south of the border.

    Josef Holnburger, disinformation researcher – think tank CEMAS.

    - In recent decades, we have also seen more and more intertwining between German and Russian economies, but also closer political ties between Germany and Russia, notes Josef Holnburger and adds:

    - These are some special circumstances on which Russian disinformation can easily be based.

    Pronounced skepticism towards 'mainstream media'
    That it actually succeeds can be felt in Leipzig, among other places. Many here know and follow influencers like Alina Lipp, despite - or rather because of - the fierce criticism that hits her in the established media.

    Because the support for the pro-Russian messages that you feel here is also due to a pronounced skepticism towards German and Western "mainstream media", which in the opinion of several demonstrators covers the war in Ukraine too one-sidedly.

    - We are trying to understand what reality looks like over there. And that's why we need people who show reality and not just selected images or invented stories, thunders Torsten Seefluth.

    - Let me put it this way: I believe more in the Russian propaganda. Or... It's not propaganda, it's the truth, says Demonstrator Heino Zech.



    Such attitudes are admittedly not representative of Germans in general. Two out of three still have great trust in, for example, public service television stations such as ARD and ZDF. But the trend is diminishing, and this can give influencers like Alina Lipp greater leeway.

    Josef Holnburger from the think tank CEMAS mentions two other factors when explaining the growing support for pro-Russian messages:

    - Russian disinformation works in such a way that a very large number of false stories are spread. For example, that the Russians were forced to respond to NATO provocations, or that they invaded because of alleged biological weapons laboratories in Ukraine.

    In the volume of those stories, the facts – namely that it is a Russian war of aggression – can be displaced in people's consciousness. And it is a method that pro-Russian influencers make targeted use of. It is a way of casting doubt, explains Josef Holnburger.

    The researcher goes on to say that unmanageable times of crisis – with a past pandemic, a new war with inflation and an energy crisis as a result – cause more people to join conspiracy theories.

    - They often give very simple explanations for challenges that are difficult to understand, states Josef Holnburger.




    Accused of supporting war crimesIt is not only in Germany that pro-Russian influencers such as Alina Lipp gain attention.

    On social media, you find other young, self-proclaimed war correspondents who convey the same messages as the German - but in English, Italian or Spanish.

    The places they visit are also always the same, and the pictures in their selfie videos are almost identical.Alina Lipp insists that she neither works for state-run Russian media nor for the Russian state, and that her work is solely funded by followers in Germany who donate money to her.

    The fact is, however, that the 29-year-old German regularly participates in propaganda talk shows on Russian television, where her videos are also included. The fact is also that she goes in and out of the Russian Foreign Ministry in Moscow.

    For example, last November, when she attended a conference for pro-Russian opinion makers from 40 countries.

    In a speech at the conference, Alina Lipp made it unequivocally clear that the participants share a common mission:- Russia is currently in a war with NATO.

    Help Russia! Use the media actively. They are very powerful weapons, sometimes more powerful than regular weapons!In Germany, the public prosecutor's office has now begun to investigate Alina Lipp.

    She is accused of actively supporting Russian war crimes. In Germany, it is considered a criminal offense that can result in up to three years in prison.

    Therefore, she says, she is forced into exile in Russia.- It makes me sad that I can't return. It makes me sad that I am actually convinced that I am doing the right thing - but that I am being persecuted for it in the country I grew up in, she says.
    However, Alina Lipp has no intention of stopping the mission as a pro-Russian influencer. Shortly after DR's interview with her, she is on her way back to the front.








    Hope it was worth something

    Took some time to translate

  23. #2548
    Thailand Expat DrWilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    About a hundred more died in the hospital from heart failure after viewing Konashenkov's reports." (Lt-Gen Igor Konashenkov is the Russian Defence Ministry spokesman and face of its daily briefings.)




    Who said Russians don't do humor?

  24. #2549
    Thailand Expat helge's Avatar
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    All oppressed nations, such as danes and russians, have sublime humour.

    It's a matter of survival

  25. #2550
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    Did you translate #2549 yourself helge, or use Google translate? Anyway, well done- interesting read. I wish we anglos were privy to more non-English media actually- I do find Google Translate works OK for Russki to fractured English . Will green ya when I can.

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