Thread: Russia launches Ukraine invasion

Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has set out the country’s 10-point peace plan in a speech at the G20 summit on Tuesday, November 15.
Saying there was no return to the Mionsk 3 deal which sought to resolve the Donbas war and which yielded little result, he said: “There will be no Minsk 3, which Russia will violate immediately after the agreement,”


He then added: “We will not allow Russia to wait, build up its forces, and then start a new series of terror and global destabilisation.”


Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov was quick to dismiss the plans saying to reporters after Zelenskyy’s speech that the plan was unrealistic.


The plan put forward involves:


Radiation safety and nuclear weapon proliferation
Food safety
Energy security
The release of prisoners and internees
Implementation of the UN charter
Withdrawal of the Russian troops
Cessation of hostilities and justice
Ecocide and environmental protection
Escalation prevention
A confirmation that the war is over

Lavrov confirmed that he had been in talks with the leaders of France and Germany on the conflict in Ukraine, claiming that Ukraine was being unrealistic and was also refusing to talk to Moscow.


Analysts say that there is little in the ten-point plan that should be a concern for Russia with the majority of the points being supported by even Russia’s closest allies.


Lavrov, however, continues to blame western sanctions for many of the problems including barriers to export of their farmed products. But these are not the target of western sanctions and there is little to stop these from taking place.


In complaining about the impact of sanctions of farm exports he confirmed 10.5 million tonnes had been exported since the start of the war, with 60 per cent going to Asia and 40 per cent to Africa.


He then went on to say that: “At least the UN secretary general gave me his sworn assurance that this is a priority issue for him,” referring to the barriers he claims are stopping grain exports.


He finished by saying: “I hope these promises will be fulfilled.”


Zelenskyy 10-point peace plan looks beyond the current conflict and that is what appears to be one of the main reasons the plan has been dismissed as unrealistic.

Zelenskyy 10-point peace plan dismissed by Russia’s Lavrov as unrealistic - Euro Weekly News

Polish PM summons Russian ambassador after cruise missiles kill two on border farm

Polish prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki reportedly summoned the Russian ambassador following the incident in which two people died when two allegedly stray cruise missiles struck a farm in a village near the border with Ukraine.


The Russian Ministry of Defence denied any involvement and claimed that the subsequent media frenzy was simply provocation by the West towards Moscow. It must be stressed at this point that no official statement has been released confirming that the missiles were either fired from Russian territory or Russian-made.


Andrzej Duda, the President of the Republic of Poland, in a televised address said that he wanted to assure everyone that Polish officials are acting in a prudent way. He added that there is no clear evidence yet as to who fired the rocket.


According to the Reuters news agency, Piotr Muller, the Polish government spokesman told reporters: “A moment ago we decided to verify whether there are grounds to launch procedures under Article 4 of the North Atlantic Treaty”.

“It was decided a moment ago to increase the readiness of some combat military units in Poland and to increase the combat readiness of other units of uniformed services in our country”. At the request of Poland, an emergency meeting of NATO ambassadors has been called for Wednesday 16.

Polish PM Russian ambassador cruise missiles kill two border

Putin will say it was an accident.


The West will be pussies.

Originally Posted by sabang

Russia is gonna have to eat some humble pie on this one

Finally . . . a thought of reason.

Originally Posted by sabang

but they will probably borrow a leaf from the amerkin textbook and call it collateral damage. How unfortunate.

Oh . . . there's goes the reason and introspection . . . replaced by whataboutism and the usual bullshit.

Originally Posted by misskit

Lavrov, however, continues to blame western sanctions for many of the problems including barriers to export of their farmed products. But these are not the target of western sanctions and there is little to stop these from taking place.

Facts, facts . . .

Originally Posted by misskit

The Russian Ministry of Defence denied any involvement and claimed that the subsequent media frenzy was simply provocation by the West towards Moscow.

Of course . . .

Originally Posted by Edmond

The West will be pussies.

Openly supplying Ukraine with weapons to kill Russian is hardly being 'pussies'.

I hope it was an accident. If not, Putin and company have completely lost thier minds.

Poland: Russian-made missile fell on our country, killing 2

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Poland said early Wednesday that a Russian-made missile fell in the eastern part of the country, killing two people in a blast that Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelenskyy decried as “a very significant escalation” of the war.


Serious questions about the explosion remain, including who fired the missile. Russia denied any involvement.


U.S. President Joe Biden convened an emergency meeting of the Group of Seven and NATO leaders who were in Indonesia for another summit but said it was “unlikely” that the missile was fired from Russia. It was not immediately clear whether Biden was suggesting that the missile hadn’t been fired by Russia at all.


The Polish government said it was investigating and raising its level of military preparedness. Biden pledged support for Poland’s investigation.


Zelenskyy’s comments, delivered in an evening address to the nation, came hours after a senior U.S. intelligence official told The Associated Press that Russian missiles had crossed into Polish territory and killed two people.


A second person said that apparent Russian missiles struck a site in Poland about 15 miles from the Ukrainian border.


A statement from the Polish Foreign Ministry identified the weapon as being made in Russia. President Andrzej Duda was more cautious, saying that it was “most probably” Russian-made but that its origins were still being verified.

“We are acting with calm,” Duda said. “This is a difficult situation.”


Biden’s decision to convene an emergency meeting of the G-7 and NATO leaders upended schedules for the final day of the Group of 20 meeting in Indonesia.


Biden, who was awakened overnight by staff with the news of the missile while attending the summit, called Polish President Andrzej Duda to express his condolences. On Twitter, Biden promised “full U.S support for and assistance with Poland’s investigation,” and “reaffirmed the United States’ ironclad commitment to NATO.”


Meanwhile, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg called the meeting of the alliance’s envoys in Brussels. The U.N. Security Council also planned to meet Wednesday for a previously scheduled briefing on the situation in Ukraine. The strike in Poland was certain to be raised.


Poland’s statement did not address whether the strike could have been a targeting error or if the missile could have been knocked off course by Ukrainian defenses.


In their statements, Poland and NATO used language that suggested they were not treating the missile blast as an intentional Russian attack, at least for now. A NATO statement called it a “tragic incident.”


If Russia had deliberately targeted Poland, it would risk drawing the 30-nation alliance into the conflict at a time when it is already struggling to fend off Ukrainian forces.

Polish media reported that the strike took place in an area where grain was drying in Przewodów, a village near the border with Ukraine.


The Russian Defense Ministry denied being behind “any strikes on targets near the Ukrainian-Polish border” and said in a statement that photos of purported damage “have nothing to do” with Russian weapons.


Polish Foreign Minister Zbigniew Rau summoned the Russian ambassador and “demanded immediate detailed explanations,” the government said.

The strike came to light Tuesday as Russia pounded Ukraine’s energy facilities with its biggest barrage of missiles yet, striking targets across the country and causing widespread blackouts.


The barrage also affected neighboring Moldova. It reported massive power outages after the strikes knocked out a key power line that supplies the small nation, an official said.


The missile strikes plunged much of Ukraine into darkness and drew defiance from Zelenskyy, who shook his fist and declared: “We will survive everything.”


In his nightly address, the Ukrainian leader said the strike in Poland offered proof that “terror is not limited by our state borders.”


“We need to put the terrorist in its place. The longer Russia feels impunity, the more threats there will be for everyone within the reach of Russian missiles,” Zelenskyy said.


Russia fired at least 85 missiles, most of them aimed at the country’s power facilities, and blacked out many cities, he said.

The Ukrainian energy minister said the attack was “the most massive” bombardment of power facilities in the nearly 9-month-old invasion, striking both power generation and transmission systems.


The minister, Herman Haluschenko, accused Russia of “trying to cause maximum damage to our energy system on the eve of winter.”


The aerial assault, which resulted in at least one death in a residential building in the capital, Kyiv, followed days of euphoria in Ukraine sparked by one of its biggest military successes — the retaking last week of the southern city of Kherson.

The power grid was already battered by previous attacks that destroyed an estimated 40% of the country’s energy infrastructure.


Russian President Vladimir Putin has not commented on the retreat from Kherson since his troops pulled out in the face of a Ukrainian offensive. But the stunning scale of Tuesday’s strikes spoke volumes and hinted at anger in the Kremlin.

By striking targets in the late afternoon, not long before dusk, the Russian military forced rescue workers to labor in the dark and gave repair crews scant time to assess the damage by daylight.


More than a dozen regions — among them Lviv in the west, Kharkiv in the northeast and others in between — reported strikes or efforts by their air defenses to shoot missiles down. At least a dozen regions reported power outages, affecting cities that together have millions of people. Almost half of the Kyiv region lost power, authorities said.


“Most of the hits were recorded in the center and in the north of the country. In the capital, the situation is very difficult,” said a senior official, Kyrylo Tymoshenko.


He said a total of 15 energy targets were damaged and claimed that 70 missiles were shot down. A Ukrainian Air Force spokesman said Russia used X-101 and X-555 cruise missiles.


As city after city reported attacks, Tymoshenko urged Ukrainians to “hang in there.”


With its battlefield losses mounting, Russia has increasingly resorted to targeting Ukraine’s power grid, seemingly hoping to turn the approach of winter into a weapon by leaving people in the cold and dark.


Dutch Foreign Minister Wopke Hoekstra took to a bomb shelter in Kyiv after meeting his Ukrainian counterpart and, from his place of safety, described the bombardment as “an enormous motivation to keep standing shoulder-to-shoulder” with Ukraine.


The strikes came as authorities were already working furiously to get Kherson back on its feet and beginning to investigate alleged Russian abuses there and in the surrounding area. The southern city is without power and water.


The retaking of Kherson dealt another stinging blow to the Kremlin. Zelenskyy likened the recapture to the Allied landings in France on D-Day in World War II, saying both were watershed events on the road to eventual victory.


But large parts of eastern and southern Ukraine remain under Russian control, and fighting continues.


In other developments, leaders of most of the world’s economic powers were drawing closer to approval of a declaration strongly denouncing Russia’s invasion.


On Tuesday, Biden and Zelenskyy pressed fellow G20 leaders at the summit in Indonesia for a robust condemnation of Russia’s nuclear threats and food embargoes. More discussion and a possible vote were expected Wednesday.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...gn=position_01

Originally Posted by Edmond

Putin will say it was an accident.

The West will be pussies.

Yes, or lie about it like he did with the Malaysian plane.

Originally Posted by Edmond

Putin will say it was an accident.


The West will be pussies.

Yep, correct on both counts. No point in fighting the Russkies, just make the bullets and let the UKR do the fighting.

Originally Posted by Edmond

Putin will say it was an accident.


The West will be pussies.

I think being sensible rather than being pussies. There is no need to escalate the war to involve Nato over a couple of stray rockets.

Both Russia and Ukraine tortured, electrocuted prisoners of war: UN

The UN human rights office (OHCHR) said on Tuesday that both Russia and Ukraine have tortured prisoners of war during the nearly nine-month conflict, citing examples including the use of electric shocks and forced nudity.


The UN’s Ukraine-based monitoring team based its findings on interviews with more than 100 prisoners of war on each side of the conflict since April. The interviews with Ukrainian prisoners of war were conducted after their release, since Russia did not grant access to detention sites, it said.


Matilda Bogner, head of the monitoring mission, told a Geneva press briefing that the “vast majority” of Ukrainian prisoners they interviewed held by Russian forces reported torture and ill-treatment. She gave examples of dog attacks, mock executions, electric shocks with tasers and military phones and sexual violence.


Bogner, who is one of the UN interviewers and spoke to journalists via video link from Ukraine, said the treatment was aimed at intimidating and humiliating them. One man in a penal colony near Olenivka told the team that members of Russian-affiliated armed groups “attached wires to my genitalia and nose and shocked me. They simply had fun and were not interested in my replies to their questions.”

Russia’s defence ministry did not immediately respond to an emailed request for comment. Russia, which invaded Ukraine on February 24, denies torture or other forms of maltreatment of POWs.


On the Ukrainian side, Bogner reported “credible allegations” of summary executions of Russian prisoners, noting that no progress has yet been seen in Ukrainian authorities’ investigations into these cases.


Other Russian prisoners reported poor and humiliating conditions of transport and of being packed into trucks or vans naked, with their hands tied behind their backs. The UN team said it had also documented cases of so-called “welcome beatings” at a penal colony.


Ukraine’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs did not immediately respond to an emailed request for comment. Kyiv has previously said it checks all information regarding the treatment of POWs and will investigate any violations and take appropriate legal action.


Asked to compare the scale of the abuses by both sides, Bogner said the mistreatment of Ukrainian prisoners by Russians was “fairly systematic” whereas she said it was “not systematic” for Ukraine to mistreat Russian soldiers.

Most of the abuses by Kyiv against Russian POWs were limited to three internment facilities, she said, and were more common during the initial phase of capture.

The team of monitors plans to visit the areas around Kherson, the city that Moscow surrendered last week, to look for additional evidence of abuses among the general population.


UN monitors have already documented summary executions and between 70-80 cases of enforced disappearances and arbitrary detentions in the area, she said.




Both Russia and Ukraine tortured, electrocuted prisoners of war: UN | South China Morning Post

Originally Posted by Troy

I think being sensible rather than being pussies.

Exactly. If NATO was in the war, it would have been over months ago.

It will be interesting to see if the missile came from Belarus.

Originally Posted by Troy

I think being sensible rather than being pussies. There is no need to escalate the war to involve Nato over a couple of stray rockets.

I think no matter why Russian missiles hit Poland, the US will at a minimum send ATACMS missile systems to Ukraine. In the past the US and Nato allies have not due to the fact the Ukraine may us their 190 range to strike targets inside Russia.

Originally Posted by Norton

I think no matter why Russian missiles hit Poland

Judging from the very cautious language coming from NATO leaders it seems possible they think the missiles were a Ukranian mistake.

Originally Posted by pickel

It will be interesting to see if the missile came from Belarus.

Originally Posted by Shutree

possible they think the missiles were a Ukranian mistake.

Yup, both also possible

Originally Posted by Shutree

Judging from the very cautious language coming from NATO leaders it seems possible they think the missiles were a Ukranian mistake.

Noted same.

Originally Posted by Troy

stray rockets.

Of course they were strays.


Will the next 'stray' Russian rockets that strike deeper into Nato and kill Natoese number 4 or more?

Originally Posted by Shutree

Judging from the very cautious language coming from NATO leaders it seems possible they think the missiles were a Ukranian mistake.

Not really, only suggests that they think they came from Ukrainian territory but don't know where from.

Originally Posted by Troy

I think being sensible rather than being pussies. There is no need to escalate the war to involve Nato over a couple of stray rockets.

A little sympathy for the Russians please. It is difficult to manufacture accurate missiles when you are robbing washing machine electronics to build the guidance system.

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

A little sympathy for the Russians please. It is difficult to manufacture accurate missiles when you are robbing washing machine electronics to build the guidance system.

The sky over that area is probably bristling with AWACS and satellites. They will know exactly from where the missiles were launched.

The question is who launched them.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

The sky over that area is probably bristling with AWACS and satellites.

Probably? I would suggest deleting that word from your post.

NATO chief says Poland blast likely caused by Ukrainian missile — but not Ukraine’s fault

NATO said there was no indication that the missile strike that hit a Polish border village on Tuesday night was deliberate, saying that Russia was ultimately to blame as it continues to bombard Ukraine with missiles.


The military alliance’s secretary-general, Jens Stoltenberg, said the missile incident took place “as Russia launched a massive wave of rocket attacks across Ukraine.”


While the investigation was ongoing into the incident, he said, “there was no indication this was the result of a deliberate attack” and no indication it was a result of “offensive military actions against NATO.”


Preliminary analysis, as previously reported, suggests the incident was caused by a Ukrainian air defense missile fired to intercept a Russian missile.


“Let me be clear, this is not Ukraine’s fault. Russia bears the ultimate responsibility as it continues its war against Ukraine,” he said.


The comments come after the alliance’s North Atlantic Council held an emergency meeting following the missile strike that hit Poland on Tuesday night, killing two civilians.


Early Wednesday morning, The Associated Press reported, citing three unnamed U.S. officials, that preliminary assessments indicated “the missile that struck Poland had been fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile.”


Other media agencies, including NBC News, cited similar details on Wednesday; Reuters reported a NATO source as saying President Joe Biden had told the G-7 and NATO partners that the strike was caused by “a Ukrainian air defense missile,” while The Wall Street Journal cited two senior Western officials briefed on the preliminary U.S. assessments as saying the missile was from a Ukrainian air defense system.


Those assessments came after Biden said Tuesday that it was “unlikely” the missile was fired from Russia, citing the trajectory of the rocket. President Andrzej Duda of Poland said Wednesday that there was no indication that this was an intentional attack on Poland.


“There are many indications that it was an air defense missile, which unfortunately fell on Polish territory,” Duda said.

NATO says Poland missile strike was not deliberate or Ukraine'''s fault

Preliminary analysis, as previously reported, suggests the incident was caused by a Ukrainian air defense missile fired to intercept a Russian missile.

and

President Andrzej Duda of Poland said Wednesday that there was no indication that this was an intentional attack on Poland.

Sad for the two lives lost. It shows just how little Russia cares what it hits that they are having to defend against missile attacks that far west.

Missile strike in Poland ‘probably an unfortunate accident’ by Ukrainian air defence, says president


Poland’s president Andrzej Duda has said the missile that landed in his country and killed two people appears to be an “unfortunate accident”.


It was highly probable that the rocket, which was Russian-made, was used by the Ukrainian air defence, he added.


There were no grounds to believe that the missile incident was an intentional attack, Duda said, or that the rocket was launched by the Russian side.


Russia-Ukraine war live: missile strike in Poland likely an accident by Ukraine air defence, says Warsaw | Ukraine | The Guardian

blast likely caused by Ukrainian missile — but not Ukraine’s fault

Would they say the same if it was a Russian missile?

If approved, it would bring total US spending on the war in Ukraine to about $105 billion

by Dave DeCamp Posted onNovember 15,

The White House on Tuesday asked Congress to approve $37.7 billion in new aid for Ukraine, which would bring total US spending on the war to about $105 billion.

According to The Hill, the request includes $21.7 billion in military aid for Ukraine and to replenish US military stockpiles that have been sent to the country.

A total of $14.5 billion in budgetary aid to directly fund the Ukrainian government is included, as Kyiv is expecting the US and its allies to pay its budget deficit for 2023.
The request also includes $626 million for the US Strategic Oil Reserve and for nuclear safety for Ukraine and $900 million for healthcare and other services for Ukrainians.

The request comes ahead of the swearing-in of the new Congress in January. Republicans are expected to hold the majority in the House once all midterm elections have been called, and Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) has clinched the GOP nomination to be House speaker.

McCarthy raised concerns among Ukraine supporters when he said a Republican-controlled House wouldn’t write a “blank check” for Ukraine. While the majority of Republicans still support spending on the war in Ukraine, McCarthy’s comments may have prompted the White House request during the lame-duck period.

It’s possible Congress will increase the White House requests as media reports said lawmakers in both parties were looking to pass a Ukraine aid bill of about $50 billion before January.

https://news.antiwar.com/2022/11/15/...w-ukraine-aid/

$105,000,000,000. I wonder how many Big Macs that would buy for the homeless? Or schools, or hospitals.