Thread: Russia launches Ukraine invasion

Originally Posted by OhOh

On Monday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that Russia’s military operation against Ukraine was “absolutely necessary” amid recurring Western attempts to turn Ukraine into “anti-Russia.”"

Putin has definitely made Ukraine more "anti-Russia" than the West ever could have. Great strategy he has there.

Those responsible in Moscow waged war and wasted human lives - the lives of other people, not that of their loved ones, not their own lives, but that of others, and that's only because a group in the Kremlin doesn't know how to admit mistakes and is terribly afraid of reality. But the reality speaks for itself.

Zelenskyy

U.S. Says North Korea Has Sold Arms to Russias Wagner Group

North Korea has delivered arms to Russia's Wagner mercenary group, the White House said on Thursday, calling Wagner a "rival" to other ministries in Moscow for power in the Kremlin.


White House national security spokesperson John Kirby said that the U.S. would impose additional sanctions on the Wagner group following North Korea's sale of rockets and missiles to the group last month, in violation of UN Security Council resolutions.


"Wagner is searching around the world for arms suppliers to support its military operations in Ukraine," Kirby told reporters.


"We can confirm that North Korea has completed an initial arms delivery to Wagner, which paid for that equipment," he added.


Kirby said the Wagner group, which is independent of the Russian defense establishment and is leading a bloody siege of the eastern Ukrainian city of Bakhmut, is spending more than $100 million each month on its Ukraine operations.


"Wagner is emerging as a rival power center to the Russian military and other Russian ministries," Kirby said.


In a statement, British Foreign Secretary James Cleverly said the U.K. concurred with the American assessment that North Korea delivered arms to Russia for the Wagner group in violation of UN resolutions.


"The fact that President Putin is turning to North Korea for help is a sign of Russia’s desperation and isolation," Cleverly said.


"We will work with our partners to ensure that North Korea pays a high price for supporting Russia’s illegal war in Ukraine."

The Wagner group is controlled by Yevgeny Prigozhin, a businessman often nicknamed "Putin's chef" for his work catering dinners for Vladimir Putin before and after he became the Russian president.


Prigozhin — who also controls the notorious St. Petersburg internet "troll farm" that allegedly disrupted the 2016 U.S. election — has been a vocal critic of the Russian defense establishment's handling of the war in Ukraine.


His mercenary group has been carrying out operations with implicit Kremlin approval in countries including Syria, Libya, Sudan, and the Central African Republic.


In several locations Wagner has been accused of participating in atrocities.


In Ukraine, the group has served as an elite special forces-type operation that has better training, equipment and supplies than the Russian military itself.


But Wagner has taken significant casualties, and Prigozhin has relied on prisons to supply Wagner with convicts to fill out its ranks.


Kirby estimated that the Wagner force now numbers about 50,000, including 10,000 skilled "contractors" and 40,000 convicts.


In Bakhmut and other areas of heavy fighting, Ukrainian forces say that the relatively untrained convicts have been forced to the front, where many have been killed or injured.


According to U.S. information, Kirby said, 1,000 Wagner fighters had been killed in the fighting in recent weeks, 90% of whom were convicts.


"It seems as though Mr. Prigozhin is willing to just throw Russian bodies into the meat grinder in Bakhmut," he said.


Kirby said Prigozhin appeared more interested in "influence peddling at the Kremlin" than protecting his troops.


"For him, it's all about how good he looks to Mr. Putin, and how well he's regarded at the Kremlin," Kirby said.

U.S. Says North Korea Has Sold Arms to Russia's Wagner Group - The Moscow Times

Not surprising that the fat North Korean is giving shorty Putin a hand.

^^ Paid to have your weapons tested in combat. Can hardly complain when doing the same.

^ Good point Troy. Unlike the US, Iran and Nth Korea have not had an opportunity to have their latest weaponry tested on the battlefield- simply because they have not been at perpetual war. Until Ukraine, of course. Given the unrelentingly aggressive and threatening posture of US foreign policy these days, I'm a wee bit surprised China hasn't said to Russia, "here try some of these". Of course they might just be doing so on the sly.

Originally Posted by sabang

Unlike the US, Iran and Nth Korea have not had an opportunity to have their latest weaponry tested on the battlefield

You've not paid attention to the war in Ukraine?

You've not read my post?

Ukraine war: Vladimir Putin slammed the West for trying to 'tear apart' Russia

Russian President Vladimir Putin slammed the West for trying to "tear apart" Russia. Putin also said that he aims to "unite the Russian people". While speaking in an interview with Rossiya 1 state television, Putin mentioned "historical Russia", which apparently indicated that Ukrainians and Russians are one people.


Putin said that Russia's "geopolitical opponents (were) aiming to tear apart Russia, historical Russia". The excerpts of the interview were shared by news agencies.


Putin added: "Divide and conquer, that's what they have always sought to accomplish and are still seeking to do." He added that "but our goal is different: it's to unite the Russian people."

With a veiled reference to the ongoing Russia-Ukraine war, Putin said his government was acting "in the right direction... protecting our national interests, the interests of our citizens, of our people."


Putin accused Kyiv and the Western allies that they are refusing to opt for the diplomatic channels and said that Russia is ready to negotiate with all parties that are involved in the war in Ukraine.


He said, "We are ready to negotiate with everyone involved about acceptable solutions, but that is up to them – we are not the ones refusing to negotiate, they are."


Putin added, "I believe that we are acting in the right direction, we are defending our national interests, the interests of our citizens, our people. And we have no other choice but to protect our citizens."

Ukraine war: Vladimir Putin slams the West for trying to '''tear apart''' Russia - World News

Originally Posted by misskit

Putin accused Kyiv and the Western allies that they are refusing to opt for the diplomatic channels and said that Russia is ready to negotiate with all parties that are involved in the war in Ukraine.


He said, "We are ready to negotiate with everyone involved about acceptable solutions, but that is up to them – we are not the ones refusing to negotiate, they are."

In other words, he is losing on the battlefield and wants to negotiate a victory.

Ukraine war: Drone attack on Russian bomber base leaves three dead


A Ukrainian drone attack on Engels bomber base in south Russia has left three people dead, Moscow says.

Air defences reportedly shot down the drone but falling debris caused the casualties in the overnight attack.

Earlier this month Russia accused Ukraine of a similar attack on the airfield, home to strategic bombers that have taken part in missile attacks on Ukraine.

The base lies about 500km (310 miles) north-east of Ukraine's border.

The Ukrainian military has not officially commented on the attacks but BBC Russia Editor Steve Rosenberg says the latest incident will come as an embarrassment to Russian authorities.

Russia's defence ministry says its air defences shot down the Ukrainian drone flying at low altitude at about 01:35 on Monday (22:35 GMT Sunday).

Three Russian servicemen died of injuries caused by drone debris, it adds.

Saratov governor Roman Busargin expressed his condolences to the men's families and friends, and said there was "absolutely no threat to residents" in the town of Engels itself.

Earlier, social media users posted videos where what sound like blasts and air sirens can be heard at the Engels airfield.

In the previous reported attack on 5 December on the airfield and another air base in the Ryazan region, three servicemen were also killed by debris from a downed Ukrainian drone, Moscow said at the time. Two aircraft were lightly damaged.

The Ukrainian military made no comment on the reported attacks.

The Engels air base has been repeatedly used by Russia to carry out missile strikes on various targets in Ukraine since Moscow launched its full-scale invasion on 24 February.

The Kremlin has accused Ukraine of attacking its territory before, but the alleged attacks in December are deeper into Russia than previous ones.

Ukraine war: Drone attack on Russian bomber base leaves three dead - BBC News

This video is very important. It needs to be in this thread as it is news. Not all news is print journalism, and this was a several month's long investigative report that is very compelling. It needs to stay in this thread and not be doghoused. Sabang will lobby hard to get this suppressed. That can not be allowed. A must-watch for anyone that monitors this thread.

Video - The New York Times

An overnight drone attack on Monday targeted the Engels airbase deep inside Russia for the second time this month, killing three servicemen in what appears to be a renewed sign of Ukraine’s readiness to target offensive threats way beyond its border areas.

Russian Telegram channels reported a strong explosion and a fire, while Russia’s state-run Ria-Novosti news agency, citing the defense ministry, said air defenses downed a Ukrainian drone heading towards the base. Engels air base is located about 600 km northeast of the Ukrainian border.

Delivering a symbolic blow, this second long-range attack on one of Russia’s most strategically important bases — home to nuclear-capable bombers — came on the same day the Russian army was celebrating the 107th anniversary of the creation of its air defense units.

The previous attack happened on December 5. New York Times has reported that Ukraine carried out the attack with drones and the help of a military reconnaissance unit coordinating it deep inside Russian territory. Russian authorities claimed that attack damaged two planes, killed three servicemen and wounded four others.

On Monday, locals reported a strong blast in the same airfield but the Russian defense ministry claimed no significant damage was done to its aircraft.
Ukraine has not taken responsibility for either strike.

“There is absolutely no threat to residents. Civil infrastructure facilities were not damaged,” Roman Busargin, governor of the Saratov region, said in a statement.
“Law enforcement agencies have been investigating the incident at a military facility.”

Busargin also issued a warning about criminal liability for spreading false information, claiming that news on the incident published in media and by citizens will be promptly sent to law enforcement agencies.

Engels airfield is a base for Russian strategic bombers used to carry missile strikes against Ukraine. In addition, those bombers are also a part of Russia’s nuclear triad, as they can carry nuclear warheads.

Drone attack hits Russia’s Engels airbase for second time in a month – POLITICO

Originally Posted by panama hat

You've not paid attention to the war in Ukraine?

Originally Posted by sabang

You've not read my post?

I did, hence my assertion . . . you haven't been paying attention . . .

Originally Posted by bsnub

This video is very important.

Russian war crimes . . . nothing new - bastards

German double agent ‘passed Ukraine intelligence to Russia’

Germany’s spy agency fears that Moscow was able to turn one of its agents in the months following the outbreak of war in Ukraine, it has emerged.


The agent, who worked for Germany’s foreign intelligence service, the BND, is believed to have had access to secret information about the Ukraine war from Britain’s GCHQ spy agency and the National Security Agency (NSA) in the US.


The alleged double agent, identified only as Carsten L in accordance with German privacy regulations, was arrested on suspicion of treason in Berlin last Wednesday. He was remanded in custody after appearing before a judge.


Security sources are now investigating the possibility that the agent was blackmailed into betraying his country, German broadcaster Tageschau reported.


If confirmed, the recruiting of an agent in the aftermath of the invasion in February would represent a major coup for Russia and a blow to Western intelligence.


The Federal Prosecutor’s Office said the intelligence operative had passed “state secrets” to a Russian spy agency.


“The accused is suspected of state treason,” prosecutors said in a statement. “In 2022, he transmitted information that he had obtained in the course of his professional activities to Russian intelligence services.”


He may have been turned by the Russians through blackmail, German media reported on Monday.


Neither the BND nor federal prosecutors would comment on the claims, but previously said the investigation was ongoing.


‘Particularly alarming’


Commenting on the arrest last week, Robert Habeck, Germany’s vice-chancellor, called the case “particularly alarming”.


The alleged double agent was a senior official in a surveillance unit of the BND, according to news portal Focus Online.


It said that one of his responsibilities was to analyse information obtained through wiretaps and he also had access to wiretap operations by other Western security services, including in the UK and US.


Wolfgang Kubicki, the vice chairman of the FDP party, a member of the ruling coalition, said he was concerned that the scandal could affect ties between the BND and its counterparts overseas.


“If information could get to Russia from the BND, that will make cooperation with our partners even more difficult,” he told Handelsblatt, a financial newspaper.


German security agencies have warned for several years that Russia has stepped up its efforts to penetrate intelligence circles.


Since the start of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine on February 24, German authorities have conducted several investigations into Russian espionage activities and expelled dozens of Russian diplomats.


“With Russia, we are dealing with an actor where we must reckon with its ruthlessness and willingness to be violent,” said Bruno Kahl, the head of the BND intelligence agency.


Last month, a German man was handed a suspended sentence for passing information to Russian intelligence services while working as a reserve officer for the German army.


In October, Arne Schoenbohm, Germany’s cyber-security chief, was sacked after a television satire programme broadcast allegations that he had ties to Russian intelligence services.


The last time a German intelligence employee was arrested for treason was in 2014 – but back then it was for betraying secrets to the CIA. In 2016, he was sentenced to eight years in prison. The episode strained relations between Berlin and Washington.

http://Germany’s spy agency fears th...nd Washington.

War crimes should be documented, whoever commits them. Hushing up one sides war crimes while amplifying the others hardly makes one a reliable narrator, or morally guilt-free.

Originally Posted by sabang

Hushing up one sides war crimes while amplifying the others hardly makes one a reliable narrator, or morally guilt-free.

Pushing egregious lies about one side that is far more open and clear about how it wages warfare against a side that clearly is committing mass murder is something that is unforgivable. Going to sleep at night on your pillow must be a horrible thing.

Russia's Lavrov: Either Ukraine fulfils Moscow's proposals or our army will decide

(Reuters) -Moscow's proposals for settlement in Ukraine are well known to Kyiv and either Ukraine fulfils them for their own good or the Russian army will decide the issue, TASS agency quoted Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov as saying.


"Our proposals for the demilitarization and denazification of the territories controlled by the regime, the elimination of threats to Russia's security emanating from there, including our new lands, are well known to the enemy," the state news agency quoted Lavrov as saying late on Monday.


"The point is simple: Fulfil them for your own good. Otherwise, the issue will be decided by the Russian army."


Moscow has been calling its invasion in Ukraine a "special military operation" to "demilitarise" and "denazify" its neighbour. Kyiv and its Western allies call it an imperial-style aggression to grab land.


In September, Moscow proclaimed it had annexed four provinces of Ukraine - Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson - after holding so-called referendums that were rejected as bogus and illegal by Kyiv and its allies.


On Sunday, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Moscow was open to negotiations and blamed Kyiv and its Western backers for a lack of talks, a stance Washington has previously dismissed as posturing amid persistent Russian attacks.


Lavrov told TASS that when it comes to how long the conflict will last, "the ball is in the regime's court and Washington behind it."


There is no end in sight to the war, which has entered its 11th month and which has killed thousands, displaced millions and turned cities into rubble.


Kyiv has ruled out conceding any land to Russia in return for peace, and publicly demands Russia relinquish all territory. Moscow has insisted it is pursing "demilitarisation" and "denazification" but in reality its aims have not been fully defined.

Russia's Lavrov: Either Ukraine fulfils Moscow's proposals or our army will decide

Originally Posted by misskit

Russia's Lavrov: Either Ukraine fulfils Moscow's proposals or our army will decide

(Reuters) -Moscow's proposals for settlement in Ukraine are well known to Kyiv and either Ukraine fulfils them for their own good or the Russian army will decide the issue, TASS agency quoted Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov as saying.


"Our proposals for the demilitarization and denazification of the territories controlled by the regime, the elimination of threats to Russia's security emanating from there, including our new lands, are well known to the enemy," the state news agency quoted Lavrov as saying late on Monday.


"The point is simple: Fulfil them for your own good. Otherwise, the issue will be decided by the Russian army."


Moscow has been calling its invasion in Ukraine a "special military operation" to "demilitarise" and "denazify" its neighbour. Kyiv and its Western allies call it an imperial-style aggression to grab land.


In September, Moscow proclaimed it had annexed four provinces of Ukraine - Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson - after holding so-called referendums that were rejected as bogus and illegal by Kyiv and its allies.


On Sunday, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Moscow was open to negotiations and blamed Kyiv and its Western backers for a lack of talks, a stance Washington has previously dismissed as posturing amid persistent Russian attacks.


Lavrov told TASS that when it comes to how long the conflict will last, "the ball is in the regime's court and Washington behind it."


There is no end in sight to the war, which has entered its 11th month and which has killed thousands, displaced millions and turned cities into rubble.


Kyiv has ruled out conceding any land to Russia in return for peace, and publicly demands Russia relinquish all territory. Moscow has insisted it is pursing "demilitarisation" and "denazification" but in reality its aims have not been fully defined.

Russia's Lavrov: Either Ukraine fulfils Moscow's proposals or our army will decide

I'm pretty sure the answer is "fuck off you fat putin sock puppet wanker".

Russia has failed to take Bakhmut, say UK defence spies

Costly onslaught hasn't made much of a dent... any gains have come at a high price, concludes British military intelligence

Russia's all out assault on the town of Bakhmut has largely failed despite resorting to costly World War One-style tactics, British military intelligence has said.

The city, and the central Donbas region where it lies, have been the focus of a Russian onslaught since August, leading to some of the bloodiest attritional warfare of the Ukraine conflict.

But British military intelligence on Tuesday said Russia had continued to launch “frequent small-scale assaults” but “little territory has changed hands”. Any gains are thought to have come at a very high cost in manpower.

Defence analysts assess that Bakhmut, which confers little strategic advantage, has become a symbolic target for Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, who is desperate to end the year with a victory.

The area has been the scene of ferocious fighting in recent weeks, with the Wagner paramilitary group thought to be leading Russia’s attack.

The group is led by former businessman Yevgeny Prigozhin, 61, known as “Putin’s chef” for his lucrative Kremlin catering contracts, and has been accused of trying to convert battlefield success in Ukraine and across Africa into political power.

The failure to take Bakhmut is seen as a blow for Mr Prigozhin’s political ambitions and an embarrassment for Russia’s leader.

Tensions between the Russian military and the mercenary group appear to be rising over the lack of progress.

In an unprecedented public criticism, two Wagner artillery gunners took aim at the Russian army’s most senior staff for failing to supply gun crews with enough ammunition, saying the mercenary group was “doing all the fighting” in Bakhmut.

One of the soldiers accused Gen Valery Gerasimov, the Russian army’s chief of staff, of deliberately obstructing the delivery of more shells “to let our guys die”.

They added that Russian attacks against Bakhmut were getting nowhere and that assault groups were being cut to pieces.

Ukraine meanwhile claimed to have halted Russia’s attacks.

Anna Malyar, Ukraine’s deputy defence minister, told a televised briefing that Russia had massed “its greatest concentration of force” to support the assault on Bakhmut.

“Our fighters are inflicting heavy casualties on the enemy and he cannot advance further,” she said.

The British defence intelligence update also said elements of Russia’s 1st Guards Tank Army were probably among forces Moscow recently deployed to Belarus.

However, it cautioned: “This formation was likely conducting training before its deployment and is unlikely to have the support units needed to make it combat ready.”

Footage also emerged of a Russian T-90M tank, one of Moscow’s most modern vehicles, being destroyed by an improvised grenade dropped from a Ukrainian drone.

The clip on social media shows an RKG-3 high-explosive grenade being dropped through the open turret of a stationary tank which then erupts, blowing the turret off.

Russian tanks have automatic loaders meaning the explosive charges used to propel the munitions are not held in protective armoured containers, as is the case in most western tanks.

Any fire or blast in the turret is highly likely to set off all the charges held in the tank, resulting in a catastrophic explosion.

Despite continued battlefield setbacks, Russia's foreign minister on Tuesday warned Ukraine that it must demilitarise, saying "the Russian army will solve the issue" if it does not.

In an apparent response, Mykhailo Podolyak, Ukrainian presidential adviser, tweeted that "Russia needs to face the reality".

"Neither total mobilisation, nor panicky search for ammo, nor secret contracts with Iran, nor Lavrov's threats will help," he said. "Ukraine will demilitarise the RF [Russian Federation] to the end, oust the invaders from all occupied territories. Wait for the finale silently."

Russia has failed to take Bakhmut, say UK defence spies

The discussion on this thread appears to be very much on the side of Team Ukraine, that is understandable as the majority of contributors are western and are influenced by their own country's media.

However in any debate both sides should have a fair hearing before a propagandized judgement is made to the exclusion of all other facts.

Team Russia is under represented therefore a few posters have taken the position of playing Devil's advocate. This does not mean that they are Putin stooges but merely wanting to highlight the facts from the other side.

Have we been whipped into a frenzy by the US and UK regarding the possible ramifications of Putin's "invasion?"
If we don't stop him now he will just keep going etc, etc.

Was this not the same old domino theory we heard about Vietnam. If its not the same it certainly rhymes.

The people who supply the bullets and bandages are usually the clear winners in any war.

If you can engage your enemies forces without putting your troops on the ground then this a much preferable scenario to actually having to bring home your own troops in body bags.

The Russians wish to have clear space between themselves and NATO - understandable due to recent history.

Russia is far from perfect, but there again so is Ukraine. We may have forgotten how dishonest a regime we are helping. A regime that would never been admitted to the EEC nor NATO because of their own corruption and ineptitude.

The winner so far is the US, having a battle fought far away from there shores and supplying the ammunition to sustain it. Not to mention the uplift is their gas exports and weapon sales.

Many people are now questioning the motives of the US, helping poor Ukraine just does not sound entirely believable to me.

^ There's truth in that and as i've said the US is doing very nicely out of this proxy war with Russia.

^^
Do you think Ukrainians would stop fighting if the US cut off aid?

If so, you are in dire need of a conversation with a Ukrainian.

Originally Posted by pickel

^^
Do you think Ukrainians would stop fighting if the US cut off aid?

If so, you are in dire need of a conversation with a Ukrainian.

Well it would seriously limit their options, and make a negotiated settlement happen faster.
This will inevitably be the end result.

I do not know any Ukrainians to have the conversation with, you will have to do.