Thread: Russia launches Ukraine invasion

there are people who have not acheived a fundamental level of consciousness where they realize that there are people who see the world quite differently than themselves

Yes, they are collectively called the forum idiots, aka boneheads. They make a mockery of our enlightened western liberal education tradition.

not aimed at anybody in particular.

You hardly need to.

Originally Posted by Iceman123

I fully understand that Ukraine are full of bluster and are putting up a very good fight in the circumstances, however the quicker reality sets in and the situation is accepted the quicker the pointless loss of lives can be avoided.

I'm not sure I agree with you there. Giving in to bullys rarely fixes anything.

Along with WaPo, NYT is the de facto State mouthpiece-


WASHINGTON — The Ukrainians say they need faster shipments of long-range artillery and other sophisticated weapons to blunt Russia’s steady advance. The United States and the Europeans insist more are on the way but are wary of sending too much equipment before Ukrainian soldiers can be trained. The Pentagon is concerned about potentially depleting its stockpiles in the coming months.

The Biden administration and its allies are struggling to balance their priorities against Kyiv’s demands as Russian forces intensify their bombardment of cities and villages across eastern Ukraine, according to American and other Western diplomats, military officials and lawmakers.

U.S. officials say Ukraine could mount a counterattack and claw back some — though not all — of the territory it has lost if it can continue to exact a bloody toll on Russia until new weapons can flow in from the West. But some officials are concerned that pulling too many Ukrainian artillery specialists off the front lines for weeks of training on the new weapons could weaken Ukrainian defenses, accelerate Russian gains and make any future counterattacks more difficult to carry out.

“There are no good choices in a situation like this,” said Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., head of the Armed Services Committee. “You have to take your best artillery officers and enlisted personnel and send them back for a week or two of training. But in the long run, I think that’s probably the smarter move.”

In addition, Pentagon officials have expressed concerns about hurting U.S. combat readiness if the war continues for months or longer. After two decades of mostly supporting counterterrorism missions, America’s defense industry largely stopped making the kinds of weapons Ukraine will need to survive a long war of attrition. The United States has authorized $54 billion in military, economic and humanitarian aid for Ukraine and has sent more than $7 billion in weapons drawn from existing Pentagon stockpiles.
FULL- Ukraine's Demands for More Weapons Clash With U.S. Concerns

Originally Posted by sabang

But some officials are concerned that pulling too many Ukrainian artillery specialists off the front lines for weeks of training on the new weapons could weaken Ukrainian defenses, accelerate Russian gains and make any future counterattacks more difficult to carry out.

A legitimate concern. However, there is an obvious option that would not require pulling any Ukrainian boots on the ground in the east.

Originally Posted by russellsimpson

That is a good heads up. I am looking forward to seeing these new developments. What are the chances do you think of Ukraine holding on to Odesa .

Russia has next to zero chance of taking Odesa and in the coming days you will see why.

Originally Posted by Iceman123

You appear to have great difficulty accepting others pov.

Accepting someone's opinion is one thing, but when it differs from reality, I will be quick to correct them. You have only just started posting in these threads and seem to be unaware of others posting histories.

Originally Posted by Iceman123

Do some real research, you may not like the answers but at least it is reality.

Like turning on the "TV" as you told me to do?

No, thanks, I have a better understanding of what is going on in Ukraine on the ground than anyone else in this forum by far. I am constantly gathering information through a large and diverse group of sources. I monitor the war on the tactical level on a daily basis, and also maintain my own active map of the current battlefront. Times have changed and there is a much broader means to gather information, and I take full advantage of that reality.

Originally Posted by Iceman123

No one is interested in your infomercial YT videos.

It was a ten-second clip showing an ammo dump that was hit with a HIMARS missile exploding. Infomercial? Imbecile.

Originally Posted by sabang

Along with WaPo, NYT is the de facto State mouthpiece-

I love how you cherry-picked the first five paragraphs of the article that focused on Ukraine and omitted the parts that mentioned how dire the situation is for Russia. Laughable.

What short fucking memories people have when they are willing to appease dictators.

Boom, the magic weapons at work, Sab. Over in Kherson area...

A major general and up to a dozen Russian senior officers have been killed in the latest wave of strikes by Western precision weapons that have crippled Russian logistics.

Major General Artyom Nasbulin, the chief of staff of the 22nd Army Corps, was killed in a Himars rocket strike on a command post near Kherson, said Sergei Bratchuk, a spokesman for the Odesa region.

If confirmed, he would be the 12th Russian general killed in Ukraine since the war began.

Another strike on an arms depot in Nova Khakova on Monday night sent a huge mushroom cloud towering into the air, and exposed Moscow's reliance on railways to deliver weapons.

Videos showed ignited munitions flying out of the explosion that shattered windows in nearby houses.

Monday’s blast was the largest of a series of devastating explosions to hit Russian munitions supplies over the past two weeks.

Ukraine has been hammering Russian logistics and command posts daily since long-range, high-precision Western weapons including the US Himars systems arrived at the end of June.

The blasts have become such a regular occurrence that pro-Ukrainian commentators on Twitter have taken to referring to the attacks as “Himars o’clock.”

Now, analysts say the campaign is close to crippling the huge logistics chain supplying the Russian invasion force and could change the course of the war.

Russia’s logistics are especially vulnerable because they are disproportionately reliant on railways and manual labour.

Instead of being moved on pallets by forklift trucks, shells destined for the front are often loaded by hand on to wagons in Russia, unloaded by hand at railheads in Ukraine, and stored in large ammo dumps.

It's HIMARS o'clock pic.twitter.com/kRnFP1yTS4
— Michael A. Horowitz (@michaelh992) July 11, 2022

When a unit needs supplies it sends a truck - usually a Ural 4320 six-wheeled lorry - to collect it, which is also loaded by hand.

That proved a weakness when Russian forces tried to storm ahead of the railheads when they attacked Kyiv early in the war. Unable to resupply their guns quickly enough, and with truck convoys being ambushed, they were forced to retreat.

But during the two-month battle for Luhansk oblast between April and June, the Russian railways successfully delivered enough ammunition for the attackers to fire 20,000 shells a day, forcing the Ukrainians into retreat.

That worked until Ukraine received the ultra-accurate, long-range rockets with which it is now wreaking havoc in the Russian rear.

Many of the supply dumps are in easily identifiable near the railway lines, and have long been known to Ukrainian intelligence. With Russian missile defence systems proving incapable of intercepting Himars rockets, they are defenceless.

Some have argued that Russia will develop its own countermeasures, including by dispersing targets like command posts and ammunition dumps, better use of camouflage, and setting up dummy targets to cause the Ukrainians to waste rockets.

“I’m sure measures will be taken, for example deployment of observation aircraft. I hope they will detect something. A single war-winning ‘wunderwaffe’ does not exist,” wrote Roman Sladkov, a Russian war correspondent, referring to the Nazi V-weapons of the Second World War.


Others are more pessimistic.

“Dispersing headquarters under a vertically centralised command structure with archaic communications is simply impossible. Dispersing depots is possible, but it requires maximal simplification and automation of loading and unloading and delivery of ammunition…but the whole process is still based on manual labour and ordinary wooden boxes,” wrote Voenny Osvedomitel, a Russian war blog on Telegram.

Introducing such reforms “under the circumstances will take years or in the best case months, so it is already too late,” it added. “We can debate at length, but in the current situation we do not see any universal and rapid solution to the problem.”

One drastic solution advocated by another Russian blogger would be to destroy all the road and rail bridges across the Dnieper river in central Ukraine with cruise missiles.

It is still unclear whether the Himars and Nato-standard 155mm artillery strikes will swing the war decisively in Ukraine’s favour.

Many frontline Ukrainian units overwhelmingly still rely on Soviet legacy 152mm artillery for fire support. They remain heavily outgunned and in some places have reported rationing as tight as 10 rounds a day.

The Russian army has long been aware of the vulnerability of rail-based supply lines. It has a dedicated corps of railway troops responsible for protecting and repairing trains and tracks.

Supplies are often moved in armoured trains carrying anti-aircraft cannons and shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles - useless against Himars, but potentially effective against drones.

Railways hit by Ukrainian forces have been repaired quickly, and they have even laid tracks across pontoon bridges.

They will be studying how, if possible, to answer the current challenge.

Nasa's Firms fire monitoring dashboard showed a significant reduction in fires in southern and eastern Ukraine between June 8 and June 12, in a possible indication of a reduction in artillery fire.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-ne...general-dozen/

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

Good well researched info Snubs. A good counter to the propaganda coming out of the 3 Putin knob gobblers.

They won't read it.

Originally Posted by bsnub

I love how you cherry-picked the first five paragraphs of the article that focused on Ukraine and omitted the parts that mentioned how dire the situation is for Russia. Laughable.

Have you explained to the Russians that they are losing?
I’m pretty sure most of them are still not up to bsnub speed.

Originally Posted by S Landreth

• NASA condemns Russia's use of space station for propaganda

The space agency issued a statement formally rebuking Russia's blatant misuse of the International Space Station.

Once again it is proof that Putler oversteps every border there is. The man is insane!
Even during the cold war, the U.S.S.R. was a predicable enemy.

Putler is the greatest danger to mankind.

Originally Posted by Iceman123

Have you explained to the Russians that they are losing?
I’m pretty sure most of them are still not up to bsnub speed.

I am sure that they do not think they are winning at this point, maybe not losing, but definitely not winning. They already lost decisively in the northern part of the country and were forced to retreat. They cobbled together this offensive in desperation due to those failures. Did you just start paying attention to this war a couple of weeks ago? Because you seem to be remarkably uninformed about what is really going on, but it is to be expected when you get your information from TV.



The truth is that due to massive amounts of artillery, the Russian only recently have started to take territory. You, like the other grovelling Putin apologists, really start wringing your hands and stomping your feet like children anytime someone points out successes by the Ukrainians. I would think most decent, reasonable people would cheer the fact that they got another Russian general and his senior command staff while blowing the biggest ammo dump of the war. Accomplishments worth noting. Yet you lot stew and have a whinge quickly trying to pivot away with a snarky little comment about Russia. Pathetic.

Russia is running out of canon fodder.
Putler is offering now arround € 3,500 a month. At the end of the month you get killed by some russian scumbag and they hail him as a hero.
Poor russian slobs...always get shot in the back.

Moscow Signals a Shift to a More Aggressive Phase of Ukraine War

KYIV, Ukraine — In an indication that Russian forces were ending what they called an operational pause in their invasion of Ukraine, the defense minister of Russia, Sergei K. Shoigu, on Saturday ordered his forces to intensify attacks “in all operational sectors” of the war.


As the Ukrainian government disclosed modest new ground attacks by Russian forces, the Russian defense ministry said in a statement that Mr. Shoigu had instructed that combat be intensified to stop Ukraine from shelling civilian areas in Russian-occupied territory.


ADVERTISEMENT
After deadly Russian missile strikes across Ukraine in recent days that killed civilians, the statement was a new signal from Moscow that its invasion may be entering a more aggressive phase.


Mr. Shoigu’s statement appeared to be a response to Ukraine’s new ability to hit Russian targets in occupied areas due to more advanced, longer-range Western weapons, like the American HIMARS precision-guided rocket systems and the French Caesar artillery pieces. Ukraine claims to have hit at least 30 Russian ammunition and logistics sites with the new longer-range weapons in the last two weeks.


Earlier this month, the Russian president, Vladimir V. Putin, suggested to lawmakers that Russia would escalate the war. “Everyone should know that, by and large, we have not started anything seriously yet,” Mr. Putin said.


There were signs of new ground fighting in the hotly contested Donbas region, where Russian forces have taken one of its provinces, Luhansk, and are trying to take the rest of another, Donetsk, as well. Ukrainian military and regional officials reported five probing attacks along the crescent-shaped frontline in the Donbas.


Ukrainian troops using “heavy fire” repelled a renewed overnight ground assault to capture the main road link between the cities of Lysychansk and Bakhmut, said Serhii Haidai, the military governor of Luhansk, an assertion echoed in a report on Saturday by Ukraine’s general staff. The road has been bitterly contested for months.


The latest analysis by the Institute for the Study of War said Russian forces were “likely emerging from their operational pause,” citing a series of limited ground assaults northwest of Sloviansk, southeast of Siversk, along the Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway and southwest of the city of Donetsk. “These assaults may indicate that Russian forces are attempting to resume their offensive operations in Donbas,” the analysis said, while noting that “the assaults are still small-scale and were largely unsuccessful.”


Some soldiers serving on frontline positions in the Donetsk region question whether the Russians ever actually paused, saying they have been under constant attack, on the ground and with artillery and aerial bombardment.


The sound of heavy explosions is often audible from the frontline cities of Sloviansk and Bakhmut. Smoke from fires dots the horizon south and east of Bakhmut, where Russian forces have been trying to advance.


A rocket hit a small fruit and vegetable market in Bakhmut on Friday afternoon, wounding several people. Early Saturday, three more rockets struck a factory and a house in Kostiantynivka, but without causing any casualties. “My café is broken, factories are smashed, everything is closed,” said Vitaliy, 40, as he repaired the boards on his café windows the day after the blast. “There is nothing left. What will the people buy?”


In the early hours of Saturday, at least three civilians were killed and three more were injured in a Russian rocket strike on the northern Ukrainian city of Chuhuiv, about 75 miles from the Russian border, the regional police said.


In the neighboring Sumy region, one civilian was killed and at least seven more were injured after Russians opened mortar and artillery fire on three towns and villages not far from the Russian border, the regional governor said on Saturday.


In Donetsk, seven civilians were killed and 14 more injured, the regional governor said on Saturday.


The major strike came on Thursday, when a Russian submarine fired cruise missiles into the heart of Vinnytsia, a city of 370,000 people about 125 miles southwest of Kyiv, the capital.


Ukrainian officials said that strike killed at least 23 people, including a 4-year-old girl with Down syndrome, causing outrage in Ukraine and the West.


The Russian defense ministry said the strike on Vinnytsia was directed at a building where top officials from Ukraine’s armed forces were meeting foreign arms suppliers. Ukrainian officials have denied that the building contained military targets.


The war is causing significant economic stress in the rest of the world, reducing global growth both this year and next, Kristalina Georgieva, managing director of the International Monetary Fund, told a hybrid meeting of Group of 20 finance ministers and heads of central banks.


“The war in Ukraine has intensified, exerting added pressures on commodity and food prices,” she said in a statement on Saturday. “Global financial conditions are tightening more than previously anticipated. And continuing pandemic-related disruptions and renewed bottlenecks in global supply chains are weighing on economic activity.”


Adding to the stress in Germany, which has been dependent on Russian energy, was a new statement by the Russian gas monopoly, Gazprom, urging the German company Siemens to return a turbine it has repaired in Canada to ensure the Nord Stream 1 pipeline delivering gas to Europe can resume working after a 10-day maintenance period that began on Monday.


Despite Western sanctions on Russia, Canada has agreed to grant what it has described as a time-limited and revocable permit for Siemens Canada to allow the turbine’s return. But Gazprom claims it has received no guarantees that the unit will be returned.


Germany was already coping with a 60 percent reduction in gas supplies through that pipeline, amid fears that Russia will not resume deliveries after maintenance. Conservative politicians have revived debate on extending the life of the country’s three remaining nuclear power plants, which produce about 6 percent of Germany’s electricity, a sensitive topic for the Greens, now in government. The plants are supposed to be shut down by the end of this year.


The European Union has banned the import of Russian coal, but a ban it imposed on oil imports is only gradual and partial. And there is no agreement on banning imports of natural gas. Brussels has also compromised on allowing Gazprom to be paid effectively in rubles, as Russia has demanded, with euro deposits into Gazprom’s own bank immediately shifted into rubles.


The European Union has also backed off on enforcing full sanctions on goods moving from mainland Russia to the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea. The enclave is separated from the rest of Russia by Poland and Lithuania; Lithuania created tensions with Moscow by announcing that it would impose European Union sanctions on Russian goods traveling by train to Russian Kaliningrad through Lithuania.


After fierce Russian complaints, Brussels “updated” its guidelines and said that Russia would be allowed to transport civilian-use goods on the sanctions list through Lithuania by rail — though not by road — in amounts comparable to preinvasion deliveries over the last three years.


There can be targeted checks, Brussels said, to ensure that sanctioned military and dual-use goods and related technologies are not part of the rail shipments.


As Russia seeks more answers to counter the newer NATO mobile artillery systems, it has turned to Iran to explore buying that country’s sophisticated armed drones, the American national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, said last week. On Saturday, a senior American official said that satellite images showed a Russian delegation visiting Iran to view unmanned weapons-capable drones that could be purchased for use in the war in Ukraine and that could be used to better target the new NATO artillery in counter-battery strikes.

Moscow Signals a Shift to a More Aggressive Phase of Ukraine War – DNyuz

President says that staff of both officials in the occupied territories have been ‘working against our state’


Zelenskiy says staff of sacked officials have been 'working against' Ukraine

Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy followed up on decrees in which he removed the State Security Service head and his Prosecutor General.
Reuters reports:

Zelenskiy said that more than 60 of their employees were working against Ukraine in Russian-occupied territory.

He added that 651 criminal proceedings had been registered relating to high treason and collaboration by employees of prosecutor’s offices, pretrial investigation bodies and other law enforcement agencies.

“In particular, more than 60 employees of the prosecutor’s office and the Security Service of Ukraine remained in the occupied territory and are working against our state,” he said.He said that such crimes raised “very serious questions” for the relevant leaders, and added, “Each of these questions will receive a proper answer.”

Russia-Ukraine war: Zelenskiy sacks head of state security and prosecutor general – live | Ukraine | The Guardian

I'm not saying Russian troops are getting tired of this disastrous war or anything, but when they start shooting down their own aircraft.....



Ukraine Situation Report: Russia Appears To Shoot Down Its Own Su-34 Strike Fighter

• US Senate panel advances Finland, Sweden NATO bid

The Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Tuesday advanced protocols to support the accession of Finland and Sweden to join NATO, setting up a full Senate vote on expanding the alliance.

The text, called a resolution of advice and consent to ratify NATO accession protocols, passed by voice vote.

Senators from both sides of the aisle have urged a quick ratification for Finland’s and Sweden’s accession to NATO as a strong signal of support for the alliance in the face of Russia’s war in Ukraine.

“Today’s vote is further proof that the answer to aggression is not isolation, but deeper engagement with likeminded democracies,” Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.) said in a statement.

“As we look to expand NATO, the Senate also reaffirms its rock solid commitment to the Ukrainian people in their struggle for freedom from oppression. We must redouble our efforts to provide the Ukrainian people every weapon they need to fight this barbaric Russian war machine,” he added.

Sen. Risch (R-Idaho), the ranking member of the committee, said in a statement that the bipartisan vote “is a testament to the importance of the alliance and U.S. support for its enlargement.”

“Now, I hope the Senate will move swiftly to pass the resolution of ratification so the United States can do its part to ratify Finland’s and Sweden’s accession to NATO as soon as possible,” he added.

Senator Rand Paul (R-Ky.) recorded his vote as present and has spoken out against expanding NATO, criticizing the alliance as provoking military aggression over diplomacy. In 2017, Paul blocked the Senate from voting for Montenegro’s accession to the alliance.

Each government of NATO’s 30-member countries must individually ratify the treaty to allow for Finland and Sweden to join the alliance. At least 10 countries have already ratified the treaty to allow Stockholm and Helsinki’s addition.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is holding back full support of his government for Finland and Sweden, saying in a television address on Monday that Ankara reserves the right to “freeze” their NATO bids if its security concerns are not met.

Erdoğan had earlier blocked Finland and Sweden’s application to NATO over what it says are concerns related to Kurdish militant groups, but removed its objections after the three countries signed a trilateral memorandum, laying out measures to address Turkey’s concerns.

____________

• EU to Add Sberbank, Russian Metals Baron to Sanctions List

The EU is set to add Russia's top lender Sberbank and the head of giant zinc and copper firm UMMC to its list of individuals and companies banned for supporting Moscow's invasion of Ukraine, according to draft documents seen by Reuters.

The 48 individuals and nine entities to be added to the sanctions list, prepared by the EU foreign affairs service, also include a motorcycle club, actors, politicians and family members of previously sanctioned businesspeople.

Adding Sberbank would freeze its assets in the West and completely prevent transactions with the exception of financial operations for the trade in food and fertiliser, an EU official told Reuters.

Russia's largest lender had already been excluded from the SWIFT bank messaging system, hampering its ability to conduct business.

Transactions for the wind-down of its subsidiary in Europe will continue to be allowed for six months, according to the official and one of the documents.

Sanctions rules will however be revised to ensure Russian banks previously added to the list can use some frozen funds to trade food and fertilizers, a measure meant to eliminate inadvertent hurdles to global food trade. [L1N2Z00LX]

The head of zinc and copper giant UMMC, Andrei Kozitsyn, is being added to the list as deemed to be "involved in economic sectors providing a substantial source of revenue to the government", the document said.

The move, expected to be adopted on Wednesday, would take to 1,229 the total number of individuals banned by the EU over the war in Ukraine, and increase to 110 the number of listed companies.

TOP SPY

Among newly sanctioned people is Sergei Korolev, First Deputy Director of the Russian FSB security service. The document says he "is indicated as a potential replacement" for FSB head Alexander Bortnikov, already under sanctions.

Russia's commissioner for children's rights, Maria Lvova-Belova, is added to the list, accused of being "one of the most involved persons in the illegal transportation of Ukrainian children to Russia and their adoption by Russian families".

Ukraine has accused Moscow of having relocated more than 200,000 children to Russia since the start of the conflict in February. Russia denies forcibly deporting Ukrainians and says it has taken in refugees.

Russia's Night Wolves motorcycle club and its leaders are to be sanctioned, among them Josef Hambalek, president of the club's European chapter, accused of training members in a camp in Slovakia for combat in Ukraine. He "has close ties with the former Slovakian government and can be connected to Russian President Vladimir Putin," the document says.

Among family members of previously sanctioned business figures added to the list are Stanislav Chemezov, son of the chairman of defence giant Rostec, and Maya Bolotova, daughter of Nikolay Tokarev, the head of energy company Transneft.

Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin is to be added to the list, as are Russian First Deputy Prime Minister Andrey Belousov, actors Sergei Bezrukov and Vladimir Mashkov, and heads of public authorities set up by Russia in occupied parts of Ukraine, including the mayors of Mariupol and Kherson.

Originally Posted by David48atTD

Russia remains strong despite 'insane' sanctions

The U.S. will be sending Ukraine four additional High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS) in another security assistance package to be announced later this week, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said Wednesday.

In opening remarks at a virtual meeting of the Ukraine Defense Contact Group, Austin said the incoming package will be the 16th drawdown of weapons from the Pentagon’s inventory since August 2021.

The pending announcement comes as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine nears its sixth month and Ukraine is looking to defend itself in its eastern Donbas region.

Austin said this was a “critical phase of the conflict,” meaning “our collective support for Ukraine is vital and urgent.”

“Russia thinks that it can outlast Ukraine and outlast us. But that’s just the latest in Russia’s string of miscalculations,” he added.

The U.S. first sent HIMARS around early June to allow the Ukrainians to more precisely strike targets from greater distances inside Ukraine. Both U.S. and Ukrainian officials have touted their effectiveness on the battlefield.

Speaking to reporters later on Wednesday, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Mark Milley said that more than 200 Ukrainians have been trained on the systems.

The systems in the upcoming package would bring the number of launchers the U.S. has sent to 16. The U.S. has sent 12 thus far, most recently sending four in a $400 million assistance package announced on July 8.

In addition to the HIMARS, the upcoming package will include more rounds of multiple-launch rocket systems (MLRS) and artillery ammunition.

In his remarks, Austin touted other countries that have stepped up their support for Ukraine, such as the United Kingdom sending its own MLRS systems and Poland agreeing to transfer three battalions of 155mm self-propelled howitzers.

The Pentagon chief also thanked Norway for working with the U.S. to transfer two National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile Systems, also known as Norwegian Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile Systems.

The systems were included in an $820 billion weapons package to Ukraine announced on July 1.

Four more High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems going to Ukraine, Pentagon chief says | The Hill

Originally Posted by DrWilly

I'm not sure I agree with you there. Giving in to bullys rarely fixes anything.

The west in some ways is partially responsible for Ukraine. We virtually ignored the Russian occupation of Transnistria, South Ossetia and Abkhazia, Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk by doing little in the way of consequences for Russias transgressions. By "giving in to the bully" (Dr W), we set the scene that Putin regarded as western weakness that then emboldened him to invade Ukraine, like some modern day Hitler. In that Sabang was right. We are responsible, but not for the russian propagandist reasons he constantly spews forth but for our own failure to stand up to this murdering dictator in the past.
Unfortunately there will be pain for many as Russia gradually descends into political insignificence and economic recession and that is coming over the next few years, regardless of Sabangs myopic defence of the Russian economy.

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

Unfortunately there will be pain for many as Russia gradually descends into political insignificence and economic recession and that is coming over the next few years, regardless of Sabangs myopic defence of the Russian economy.

I have already posted about the massive brain drain that is occurring in Russia right now. It is going to be very bad, and it will stay that way for a long time to come. Basically, all that soon will be left in Russia are those dumb enough to be consumed by a constant barrage of propaganda coming from state run media and propagated by lemmings like the Three Stooges here on TD.

The best thing that could happen to the Russian people is for puffy to die or be assassinated.

Until the old KGB/FSB apparatus is dismantled, it will always be a totalitarian shithole.