Thread: Remains of 215 children found at Canadian Indigenous school

Originally Posted by panama hat

Indeed . . . we know . . . 2 of the 3 largest mass-graves in the world involve Russia.

Quite a few in Cambodia as well, probably a few undiscovered what with all those landmines and all.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Quite a few in Cambodia as well, probably a few undiscovered what with all those landmines and all.

Yes, the largest is in Cambodia . . . there are said to be many more in Russia that have yet tp be found

Originally Posted by panama hat

Yes, the largest is in Cambodia . . . there are said to be many more in Russia that have yet tp be found

Well I don't know about the largest, but they've mapped 24,000-odd mass graves and there are definitely more out there.

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Puzzled, isn't the Canadian govt responsible what happens in their country?

Yes Klondyke, the Canadian government is ultimately responsible.

The problem is that many of the relevant documents regarding this tragedy are being held by the Vatican and they are not sharing.

Originally Posted by russellsimpson

The problem is that many of the relevant documents regarding this tragedy are being held by the Vatican

Do you know that, or is it just supposition?

What sort of documentation would you be expecting to see?

Originally Posted by russellsimpson

I would be expecting some documentation about inappropriate sexual activities on the part of the brothers

Originally Posted by russellsimpson

I am not expecting too much at all.

Thanks for clarifying.

OK, so this makes more sense, which wouldn't be difficult...

Pope Francis has said he was pained by the discovery of the remains of 215 children at a former Catholic school for indigenous students in Canada, and called for respect for the rights and culture of native peoples.


He urged Canadian political and Catholic religious leaders to “cooperate with determination” to shed light on the finding and to seek reconciliation and healing. Francis said he felt close to “the Canadian people, who have been traumatised by the shocking news”.


Speaking to pilgrims and tourists in St Peter’s Square in Vatican City, he stopped short of the direct apology many Canadians had demanded from the Catholic church for its role in the residential schools, which operated between 1831 and 1996 and were run by a number of Christian denominations on behalf of the government.


The discovery last month of the remains of the children at the Kamloops Indian residential school in British Columbia, which closed in 1978, has reopened old wounds and is fuelling outrage in Canada about the lack of information and accountability.


The residential school system forcibly removed about 150,000 children from their homes. Many were subjected to abuse, rape and malnutrition in what the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in 2015 called “cultural genocide”.


Francis spoke two days after the Canadian prime minister, Justin Trudeau, said the Catholic church must take responsibility for its role in running many of the schools.

Pope Francis stops short of apology over deaths in ex-Catholic school in Canada | Pope Francis | The Guardian

^Good. At least he has recognized the concerns. His lack of apology though is still going to leave a lot of people, including R.C. folks, very outraged.

It's not much but it is consequential I do believe.

Originally Posted by russellsimpson

His lack of apology though...

Not to mention the logs of who fiddled with who and when that you're apparently expecting.

As I indicated my expectations are very low when it comes to the Vatican. The federal government burned several tons (yes tons) of Indian Schooll related documents over about a fourty year period ending around 1950 (something I heard here on the national news a few days back)

What will happen to the bodies here in Kamloops is yet to be determined. At least one other tribe is already searching their Residential School grounds back in Nova Scotia. The government has provided 12 million dollars to allow any band to search if they so choose. It's going to be a long hot summer here.

Pope Francis has said he was pained by the discovery of the remains of 215 children at a former Catholic school for indigenous students in Canada, and called for respect for the rights and culture of native peoples.


He urged Canadian political and Catholic religious leaders to “cooperate with determination” to shed light on the finding and to seek reconciliation and healing.

Well that would be a first for those child molesters.

Yeah, but they won’t. They are also liars.

OTTAWA -- Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's acceptance of an inquiry's finding that Canada committed genocide against Indigenous people could have tremendous legal impact if a court ever weighs Ottawa's responsibility for crimes against humanity, experts say.

Amid growing outrage and grief over an unmarked burial site at a residential school in British Columbia, Trudeau reiterated this week that he accepts the conclusion of the 2019 inquiry into missing and murdered Indigenous women that "what happened amounts to genocide."

"To truly heal these wounds, we must first acknowledge the truth, not only about residential schools, but about so many injustices both past and present that Indigenous Peoples face," he said Thursday.

Bruno Gelinas-Faucher, a University of Montreal law professor, said that if a court was determining whether Canada committed genocide, it would assess whether the acts in question amount to genocide under international law and consider whether the country is responsible for those acts.

The missing and murdered women's inquiry concluded in its 1,200-page report that Canada deliberately and systematically violated racial, gender, human and Indigenous rights.

Gelinas-Faucher said the report attributed the actions of genocide to Ottawa because they were committed by the government or through its guidance or instructions.

"A court could say, under current rules of international law, that the state has accepted responsibility under international law for the crime of genocide," he said.

"That's a big deal."

The news of the unmarked burial site, believed to contain the remains of 215 children, in Kamloops, B.C., has raised questions about whether Canada could face new legal consequences, either for the individual case or for the widespread abuse and deaths in residential schools.

The RCMP said this week it has opened a file into the unmarked graves at the Kamloops Residential School but that the Tk'emlups te Secwepemc are the lead investigators.

As for a broader criminal case, genocide and crimes against humanity are illegal in the Canadian system, but a case would need to be initiated by public prosecutors.

The International Criminal Court in The Hague, Netherlands, can examine cases referred by the United Nations Security Council or the state itself, or if the court prosecutor launches an investigation.

A group of Calgary-based lawyers has formally asked the international court to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate the Canadian government and the Vatican for the findings in Kamloops.

But there are many thresholds that must be met before the court prosecutor launches an investigation, said Gelinas-Faucher.

"The court only prosecutes the most heinous, the most grievous crimes "It won't prosecute low-level officials," he said. "The court goes only after the big fish."

Trudeau's reiteration that Canada committed genocide comes after Germany officially admitted last week that the 1904 mass killings of the Herero people, who rebelled against German colonial rule in Namibia, were a genocide.

Germany's admission came with a promise of about $1.6-billion in development aid to the southwest African country.

Guelph University political science professor David MacDonald said Germany has long been an exception in acknowledging its historical genocides, as governments rarely recognize their own countries have committed mass murder.

However, the Kaiser political regime committed the genocide in Namibia and the Nazi regime committed the Holocaust, which makes it easier for the current democratic regime in Germany to acknowledge these crimes, MacDonald said.

If Canada admits to genocide, it's not just admitting that some earlier and completely different government committed genocide, he pointed out.

"Here you've got a Liberal government and a Conservative opposition. And the whole time of the residential schools, you had Liberal governments and Conservative oppositions or Conservative governments and Liberal oppositions," he said.

The Canadian government would be admitting that the genocide occurred by the hands of institutions that still function more or less now as they did before, MacDonald said.

"The earlier versions of their parties, the earlier versions of their Parliament, the earlier versions of the RCMP, the earlier versions of the Department of Indian Affairs … committed genocide."

"The attitudes have changed and all the personnel are different, but there's institutional continuity in Canada, which doesn't happen in Germany."

On Thursday, the Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations, which represents 74 First Nations in Saskatchewan, welcomed Trudeau's acknowledgment that Canada committed genocide.

"Our leaders have been calling out this genocide for decades and it is about time that their efforts are acknowledged and the prime minister admits what happened to our people was nothing short of genocide," said FSIN Chief Bobby Cameron in a statement.

"There is a long road of healing that will come and acknowledging the genocide our people faced is a start. Holistic and wellness services must now become essential and immediately begin in every First Nations community across Canada."

The Indian Residential Schools Resolution Health Support Program has a hotline to help residential school survivors and their relatives suffering with trauma invoked by the recall of past abuse. The number is 1-866-925-4419.

Trudeau's acknowledgment of Indigenous genocide could have legal impacts: experts | CTV News

We really don't know very much more than we knew originally. We apparently have 215 childrens' bodies buried and the fact that there is no burial record for the majority of them is a criminal offence. How the children died we don't know and I personally find the idle speculation quite unhelpful.

What we do have in Canada is the beginning of a long hot an uncomfortable summer.

There is rising consensus among the FN that the Pope must deliver an apology on the grounds of the Kamloops site.

Originally Posted by russellsimpson

There is rising consensus among the FN that the Pope must deliver an apology on the grounds of the Kamloops site.

The Presbyterian and United Church of Canada have apologized so understandable why folks expect same from Catholic Church but as you say don't hold your breath.

An apology implies guilt. Guilt opens the door for reparation suits.

Originally Posted by russellsimpson

How the children died we don't know

They didn’t die of old age.

Originally Posted by Norton

The Presbyterian and United Church of Canada have apologized so understandable why folks expect same from Catholic Church but as you say don't hold your breath.

Did the Presbyterian Church in Kentucky apologise or was it the local one?

Originally Posted by russellsimpson

We really don't know very much more than we knew originally. We apparently have 215 childrens' bodies buried and the fact that there is no burial record for the majority of them is a criminal offence. How the children died we don't know and I personally find the idle speculation quite unhelpful.

There is no "idle speculation".

Based on the almost identical circumstances at Tuam, they most likely died of neglect and abuse in the form of malnutrition, unsanitary conditions and untreated disease.

Why do you continue to find this proven pattern of behaviour so hard to accept?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Why do you continue to find this proven pattern of behaviour so hard to accept?

Devils advocates for the Catholic Church. Oh, the irony.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Did the Presbyterian Church in Kentucky apologise or was it the local one?

Far as I know just the Canuck bunch.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Why do you continue to find this proven pattern of behaviour so hard to accept?

He has already admitted to working at this school. Guilt by association?

Originally Posted by TheRealKW

He has already admitted to working at this school. Guilt by association?

Well it would explain why he is so defensive.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

they most likely died of neglect and abuse in the form of malnutrition, unsanitary conditions and untreated disease.

I can't speak to the circumstances at the facility in Ireland.

The notion that the children in Kamloops died of these conditions you outline is pure stupidity on the the part of you and your junior partner. Nobody among the native community here is suggesting any such thing. I'm not suggesting there wasn't any malpractice going on but to characterize it the way you are doing is offensive to all concerned and I would respectively suggest you put a sock in it. Cheers.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Why do you continue to find this proven pattern of behaviour so hard to accept?

Because you are speaking of two different circumstances. Just because the other churches have apologized it doesn't make the Catholic church guilty of these largely imagined heinous crimes.

Originally Posted by TheRealKW

He has already admitted to working at this school. Guilt by association?

Junior partner, runt of litter spews what shit?