The Korean Missile Crisis Thread

[Cold Pizza]

Edited.

Looper, SKkin, and Pickel have answered my questions.

Thanks.

[Looper]

Yes, a slap by a country who actually used them in the 20th century. No hypocrisy there.

That was back in the days when nuclear weapons were new and exciting, even cool.

Now they are simply a menace and a liability. Tactically worthless to civilised nations (since civilised nations cannot drop nuclear weapons on anybody for any reason or even threaten to do so). They are only a credible threat from rogue nations and terrorists. They have to go.

It is simply silly to try and suggest that the most powerful nation on earth should refrain from engaging in the struggle to prevent rogue nations from developing nuclear capabilities based on events in 1945.

unlike NK's use as a defensive one.

You don't really believe that crap do you? It is not defensive when the only threat to the nation's sovereignty exists by virtue of the very fact that they are engaging in the development effort in the first place. The hermit nation would not even be on the US radar if it were not for this foolhardy endeavour. Communism is not even a blip in 2017, it is a historic curiosity.

NK's nuclear programme is not defensive - it is a dangerous grab for extra threatening leverage when trying to engage in their time-worn modus operandi of belligerent threat followed by economic concession from the west in return for settling down for a while. NK's intended use of nuclear weapons is as a bargaining chip and leverage for position in their endless game of cat and mouse with the west.

The world's patience with this nonsense has to stop somewhere.

[Norton]

NK is contained and regardless of what the fearmongers think, won't risk a preemptive strike which would guarantee the regimes annihilation.

Sadam was fully contained after his foolish adventure into Kuwait. Didn't stop the US from invading Iraq. Agree that NK will not risk a first strike. Big risk is, will the US foolishly do so?

[Maanaam]

The American media seems to be psychologically preparing the US public for a conflict with NK.

It's the usual process in previous conflicts, such as Gulf War I and II.

I said that months ago when a spate of stories were published, from orphans to elderly homeless, from empty mega-apartments to other pitiful situations, from death camps to escapes, all implying the citizens are to be pitied and the government is nasty. That may be true, but it looks very much like what you say; Prepare the US citizens for the righteous forthcoming attack.

[Neo]

Yes, a slap by a country who actually used them in the 20th century. No hypocrisy there.

That was back in the days when nuclear weapons were new and exciting, even cool.

Now they are simply a menace and a liability. Tactically worthless to civilised nations (since civilised nations cannot drop nuclear weapons on anybody for any reason or even threaten to do so). They are only a credible threat from rogue nations and terrorists. They have to go.

It is simply silly to try and suggest that the most powerful nation on earth should refrain from engaging in the struggle to prevent rogue nations from developing nuclear capabilities based on events in 1945.

unlike NK's use as a defensive one.

You don't really believe that crap do you? It is not defensive when the only threat to the nation's sovereignty exists by virtue of the very fact that they are engaging in the development effort in the first place. The hermit nation would not even be on the US radar if it were not for this foolhardy endeavour. Communism is not even a blip in 2017, it is a historic curiosity.

NK's nuclear programme is not defensive - it is a dangerous grab for extra threatening leverage when trying to engage in their time-worn modus operandi of belligerent threat followed by economic concession from the west in return for settling down for a while. NK's intended use of nuclear weapons is as a bargaining chip and leverage for position in their endless game of cat and mouse with the west.

The world's patience with this nonsense has to stop somewhere.

A perfect example of the anti intellectual rhetoric that masquerades as informed opinion in this post-truth era.

[Cold Pizza]

Looper has a very good point.

[NZdick1983]

The American media seems to be psychologically preparing the US public for a conflict with NK. It's the usual process in previous conflicts, such as Gulf War I and II.

That sounds very feasible, I do hope you are wrong CP.

Looper has a very good point.

Agree... very good post Loopie..

[SKkin]

The American media seems to be psychologically preparing the US public for a conflict with NK. It's the usual process in previous conflicts, such as Gulf War I and II.

That sounds very feasible, I do hope you are wrong CP.

Anyone think the South Korean public will have any say in the matter?

[Cold Pizza]

The American media seems to be psychologically preparing the US public for a conflict with NK. It's the usual process in previous conflicts, such as Gulf War I and II.

That sounds very feasible, I do hope you are wrong CP.

Anyone think the South Korean public will have any say in the matter?

No.

They're not involved in the decision making process, nor are the American or North Korean public.

[Looper]

The biggest disappointment in this whole scenario are the Chinese. They have enjoyed having having their mad little pit-bull on a leash casually issuing belligerent threats and keeping the west on their toes for years. The game has to be up at some point though, as rogue nations cannot be allowed to have nuclear weapons. When the game is up it is time for the Chinese to choke the life out of the regime by economic asphyxiation and install some milder form of buffer regime. The game is clearly up and yet the Chinese are dragging their feet and not bringing their influence to bear. If this goes to war then the Chinese are dangerously complicit and note should be taken for the historical record.

[Neo]

Looper has a very good point.

Agree... very good post Loopie..

NK's nuclear programme is not defensive - it is a dangerous grab for extra threatening leverage when trying to engage in their time-worn modus operandi of belligerent threat followed by economic concession from the west in return for settling down for a while.

Really Looper...? As the cornerstone of your argument, tell me about these 'time worn' economic concessions that NK has recieved from the West.

[OhOh]

The world's patience with this nonsense has to stop somewhere.

Ah, "the worlds patience" and by what criteria are you measuring that?

as rogue nations cannot be allowed to have nuclear weapons.

You are the decider of which countries are rogue?

note should be taken for the historical record.

History has already beeing written about who is the most evil country in the world.

[Looper]

Really Looper...? As the cornerstone of your argument, tell me about these 'time worn' economic concessions that NK has recieved from the West.

How about you start by expanding on your 1 line response to my argument which was set out in detail:-

A perfect example of the anti intellectual rhetoric that masquerades as informed opinion in this post-truth era.

You are the decider of which countries are rogue?

Well somebody has to decide.

[Klondyke]

Well somebody has to decide.

Obviously, the "international community" will decide.

Noam Chomsky has noted the use of the term to refer to the United States and its client states and allies in the media of those states.

The scholar and academic Martin Jacques says: "We all know what is meant by the term 'international community', don't we? It's the west, of course, nothing more, nothing less. Using the term 'international community' is a way of dignifying the west, of globalising it, of making it sound more respectable, more neutral and high-faluting."

Chomsky has written that the phrase international community means Washington, which is more limited than the west or even United States of America

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_community

[Neo]

Really Looper...? As the cornerstone of your argument, tell me about these 'time worn' economic concessions that NK has recieved from the West.

How about you start by expanding on your 1 line response to my argument which was set out in detail:-

A perfect example of the anti intellectual rhetoric that masquerades as informed opinion in this post-truth era.

That you find it difficult to comprehend my succinct and rather eloquent statement on the paucity of your argument simply reflects your inability to grasp the bigger picture regarding global political history.

There I have 'expanded' for you.

Now back to my question... care to expand on your supposition that NK is using nuclear threats to win economic concessions..?

You can't, because it's total bullshit and that'swhy you are trying to move the goal posts.

[SKkin]

Noam Chomsky has noted the use of the term to refer to the United States and its client states and allies in the media of those states.

I sometimes wonder if it's Washington DC/USA that is the client state of "The City" and is merely just the mouthpiece(and military enforcer) for the policies decided in the 'Square Mile'.

I know that's not the perception of many...

[Looper]

We all know what is meant by the term 'international community', don't we? It's the west, of course

Yes, the western nations (especially the english speaking ones) are the moral, social, political and technological leaders of the international community (lets not be shy about reality) but everyone is welcome to pull up a chair.

There I have 'expanded' for you.

You have not expanded at all. You have made an oblique criticism in your original post with no detail about specifically what you mean and then sprinkled some dressing on it in your follow up.

Here it is again with original post quoted this time.

Yes, a slap by a country who actually used them in the 20th century. No hypocrisy there.

That was back in the days when nuclear weapons were new and exciting, even cool.

Now they are simply a menace and a liability. Tactically worthless to civilised nations (since civilised nations cannot drop nuclear weapons on anybody for any reason or even threaten to do so). They are only a credible threat from rogue nations and terrorists. They have to go.

It is simply silly to try and suggest that the most powerful nation on earth should refrain from engaging in the struggle to prevent rogue nations from developing nuclear capabilities based on events in 1945.

unlike NK's use as a defensive one.

You don't really believe that crap do you? It is not defensive when the only threat to the nation's sovereignty exists by virtue of the very fact that they are engaging in the development effort in the first place. The hermit nation would not even be on the US radar if it were not for this foolhardy endeavour. Communism is not even a blip in 2017, it is a historic curiosity.

NK's nuclear programme is not defensive - it is a dangerous grab for extra threatening leverage when trying to engage in their time-worn modus operandi of belligerent threat followed by economic concession from the west in return for settling down for a while. NK's intended use of nuclear weapons is as a bargaining chip and leverage for position in their endless game of cat and mouse with the west.

The world's patience with this nonsense has to stop somewhere.

A perfect example of the anti intellectual rhetoric that masquerades as informed opinion in this post-truth era.

If you have something to say then don't piss around with your flowery posturing.

Respond to the points in my original post.

[SKkin]

Speaking of hypocrisy...

If 'someone' is incorrectly translated as saying Israel should be wiped off the map all hell breaks loose...but it's ok with Dan Gillerman to "wipe NK off the face of the map."(2013)

[Neo]

Looper.. either you have evidence to back up your argument or you don't.?

[Looper]

Neo, we are just 2 fellas chewing the fat about the state of the world.

Instead of being a mouse-warrior and bleating for links and cut and pastes lets imagine for moment that we are in pub instead of on the internet.

I have laid out an argument for how I see NK's historical relationship with the rest of the world, in a way I think most people recognise, and why their attempt to build an ICBM nuclear weapon means that the fun and games are over and it is time up for fatboy.

If you don't agree then tell me why you don't agree.

[Cold Pizza]

Really Looper...? As the cornerstone of your argument, tell me about these 'time worn' economic concessions that NK has recieved from the West.

How about you start by expanding on your 1 line response to my argument which was set out in detail:-

A perfect example of the anti intellectual rhetoric that masquerades as informed opinion in this post-truth era.

That you find it difficult to comprehend my succinct and rather eloquent statement on the paucity of your argument simply reflects your inability to grasp the bigger picture regarding global political history.

Stop with your drunkard taking the pee bullshit.

[Neo]

Too many big words for you eh CP

[Neo]

If you don't agree then tell me why you don't agree.

Sure Looper

What part of back up your argument don't you understand.?

[Looper]

Neo, you are revealing yourself as a sad excuse for an argumentarian. I thought you were better than this.

I have put forward an argument about why US military action against NK is justified.

NK is a rogue nation. Rogue nations should not have access to nuclear weapons. As unpleasant as war is sometimes there is no alternative. The Chinese could defuse this situation very quickly by doing the right thing and suffocating the regime economically (since China accounts for 90% of NK's international trade) but they seem reticent to do this. That makes China complicit in any ensuing conflagration.

You don't seem to like this suggestion but it seems that you can't say why.

The conclusion everyone reading this thread must come to is that you simply don't have a counter-argument.

[SKkin]

The Chinese could defuse this situation very quickly by doing the right thing and suffocating the regime economically (since China accounts for 90% of NK's international trade) but they seem reticent to do this.

Final warning?

China issued 'last warning' to N. Korea over nukes: Chinese social media

China has sent a final warning to North Korea over its military provocations, according to unconfirmed rumors spreading widely on Chinese social media Tuesday.

Chinese news outlets have previously said Beijing could turn its back on Pyongyang if the latter conducted a sixth nuclear test. But the rumor that China has given North Korea a final warning has drawn particular interest from Weibo users.

The rumor cited the May issue of Hong Kong monthly news outlet Dong Xiang. It said a Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs junior minister invited Park Myung-ho, an official of North Korea, for a meeting.

China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi attended the meeting and asked his junior to read aloud the warning to the North over the nuclear test. The memorandum mentioned that China will condemn strongly, pull back on all economic cooperation and even blockade North Korea if it conducted the test.

A Chinese netizen said: "Maybe the bond between the nations is not that strong as we thought. North Korea is completely surrounded by enemies now."

The Chinese government did not provide any explanation or correction to the rumor.