The Korean Missile Crisis Thread

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Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

I am not advocating military action. Neither do I advocate taking it off the table. I don't believe Kim wants to start a war he can't win. Or give the Americans an "easy" option. To think NK would freeze its nuclear weapons program for Nuclear power technology would be foolish. Regime survival is its only goal, hence the need for nuclear weapons. A conventional war by NK could lead to thousands of defectors from the NK forces.
IMO he is playing for a lifting of sanctions to further entrench his regime and will sacrifice any amount of his own people to achieve it.
The rub is do you ease sanctions and provide aid to a murderous dictator which will ease the suffering of some of the people or try harder sanctions? The former will only increase his ability to spend more money on his repressive regime, the latter is always likely to be thwarted by China and Russia for their own self interested reasons including weakening U.S. influence in the region. Therein lies the problem.

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It would seem you have read the links I provided which is a good start.

That being the case you have seen what ( US) experts say would be the outcome of a military strike it would therefor seems pretty obvious that it is not a realistic option.

Your reference to nuke reactors is way out of date and has been made redundant by NK now having nukes. This was a deal reached years ago between the US and NK which the US reneged on, if they had carried through with that deal then things would very likely have been much different today.

As for the rest; your opinion well for all I know you may be an expert on Korean affairs if that is the case I would respect your opinion, however as I note you have a bridge for sale which you appear to believe you own I cant help thinking you may be somewhat gullible.

Published on 29 Jun 2017 on youtube.

We can not allow North Korea to do this anymore. They are getting out of control. So many people being tortured and so many threats being made. No more! My prediction: The USA is about to invade North Korea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVQMFRDqxIY

W&S,

I agree with you. I see it the same way. The US is prepping the public in the US and world for it.

UN meeting proposal, and the possible ICBM launch.


Article: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s-of-un-action

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Originally Posted by OhOh

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Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

Any proof that Israel has nuclear weapons or are you just Trolling again Robin HOhOhd ?

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Have the Israeli nuclear facilities been inspected by a competent authority, you know like the inspections on Iraq and Iran?

Until then they have to be accepted as a nuclear power similar to any country

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Competent authority ? :rolleyes:

Iran successfully launched ballistic missile (06.05.2017) :rolleyes:

Think you can figure it out by yourself ?

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Originally Posted by OhOh

Why does ameristan have so many military bases spread around the world when it already has Embassies with diplomats to deal with issues in country, what are they afraid of?

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Why do so many countries have an alliance with America ?

Think you can figure it out by yourself without quoting RT ? :rolleyes:

My advice: Get out of Korea and let them figure it out themselves.
Let Japan, S. Korea and others attack if they like and raise their defense budget.
There is lots of money to be made and the U.S. trade deficit can get back in balance.

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Capitalist South Korea is a young democracy, Asia’s fourth largest economy, and a technology powerhouse where more than 80% of people have internet access. Communist North Korea is an impoverished, isolated, dictatorship ruled with an iron fist by the unpredictable young leader Kim Jong-un.

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My advice to TD comrades: buy stocks from Lockheed Martin

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Originally Posted by birding

Your reference to nuke reactors is way out of date and has been made redundant by NK now having nukes. This was a deal reached years ago between the US and NK which the US reneged on, if they had carried through with that deal then things would very likely have been much different today.

I can read. I don't need your links. I'm merely pointing out that unlike you I don't believe that deal would have gone anywhere which is just as valid as your belief that it would.

As for the rest; your opinion well for all I know you may be an expert on Korean affairs if that is the case I would respect your opinion, however as I note you have a bridge for sale which you appear to believe you own I cant help thinking you may be somewhat gullible.
[at] [at]

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I'm sorry and what country were you the Ambassador of in North Korea? The gullibility is all on your side. you seem to think for reasons known only to God, that someone with concentration camps all over the country who kills or imprisons whole families at a whim is somebody who can be reasoned with. Shite canning the USA will not fix the problem. If you wish to get off topic do a "Why I hate the USA" thread.

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Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

that someone with concentration camps all over the country who kills or imprisons whole families at a whim

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Have you been there? Or where do you take your information from? You surely will not assume that all that what you read on the MSM (who like to be very objective, don't they?) is entirely believable.

I remember the years of Cold War, when the living conditions in the countries behind the Iron Curtain were sometimes very laughably pictured, that the people who have known nothing about that (similarly like you), have thought it looks there like in the movie "1984" (according to Orwell). The reality was somehow very different...

North Korea missile: US says it will use military force 'if we must'

The US has said it will use its "considerable military forces" on North Korea "if we must", following Tuesday's long-range missile test.

US ambassador Nikki Haley said a new resolution will also be tabled against Pyongyang at the United Nations.

She described the test as a sharp military escalation and also threatened to use trade restrictions.

Hours after she spoke, the US and South Korea fired more missiles into the Sea of Japan as part of military drills.

But Pyongyang has said it would not negotiate unless the US ends its "hostile policy" against North Korea.

Tuesday's missile launch, the latest in a series of tests, was in defiance of a ban by the UN Security Council.

Is the new missile test a game-changer?
Can the US defend itself against N Korea?
Possible solutions to crisis

Meanwhile, US Defence Secretary Jim Mattis and his Japanese counterpart Tomomi Inada said the test was an "unacceptable provocation".

A statement released by the US defence department said the two spoke on the phone, where Gen Mattis said the US was committed to defend Japan and provide deterrence.
Image copyright KCNA
Image caption North Korean media released this image of Tuesday's missile launch
How has the US responded?

On Wednesday Ms Haley warned that North Korea's test launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) was "quickly closing off the possibility of a diplomatic solution".

"The United States is prepared to use the full range of our capabilities to defend ourselves, and our allies," she told the UN Security Council, which met for an emergency session to discuss the test.

"One of our capabilities lies with our considerable military forces. We will use them, if we must, but we prefer not to have to go in that direction," she said.

On Thursday in South Korea, the US held a joint military drill with the South's troops for a second day in response to the long-range missile test.

It involved various destroyers, warships and fighter jets launching guided missiles against a simulated maritime attack, reported Yonhap news agency.
Image copyright EPA
Image caption The South Korean destroyer Yang Manchun was seeing firing an anti-ship missile

Ms Haley also said the US could cut off trade with countries which continued to trade with North Korea in violation of UN resolutions.

"We will look at any country that chooses to do business with this outlaw regime," she said.

Earlier, US President Donald Trump criticised China for its trade with North Korea.

Mr Trump has arrived in Warsaw where he is due to meet Chinese President Xi Jinping for the second time. He will later travel to Hamburg for the G20 summit, where world leaders are expected to discuss the missile test.

Why is Donald Trump going to Poland?
What have other countries said?

South Korea's President Moon Jae-in has voiced concern that the North's nuclear and missile development was "proceeding much faster than expected".

Speaking in Berlin on Wednesday, where he met with German leader Angela Merkel, he said they would "examine possibilities of ramping up sanctions".

At the UN Security Council meeting in New York, the French ambassador said they also favoured a new resolution on North Korea, which would tighten sanctions.

Russia, which condemned the test, said the possibility of using military measures "should be excluded".
Media captionWhy Trump only has bad North Korea options, as the BBC's Korea correspondent Steve Evans explains

China's representative said North Korea's actions were unacceptable, but also repeated China and Russia's call for all involved to stand down.

They have proposed that North Korea should halt its missile and nuclear programmes, in exchange for freeze of the US and South Korea's military exercises in the region. They also propose reversing plans to deploy a controversial anti-missile system in the South.

Both Russia and China are permanent members of the UN Security Council and could veto any new resolution.
What has North Korea said?

On Wednesday, state news agency KCNA said the "US strategy of strength" combined with pressure and engagement "will never work".

Unless the US stopped its "hostile policy", North Korea "will never put the nuke and ballistic rocket on the negotiating table".
Image copyright KCNA/REUTERS
Image caption North Korean state TV said the launch was overseen by leader Kim Jong-un

It had earlier quoted leader Kim Jong-un as saying that Tuesday's launch was a "gift" to the Americans on their independence day, and that he ordered officials to "frequently send big and small 'gift packages' to the Yankees".

Pyongyang said the Hwasong-14 ICBM had reached an altitude of 2,802km (1,731 miles) and flew 933km for 39 minutes before hitting a target in the sea.

North Korea, it said, was now "a full-fledged nuclear power that has been possessed of the most powerful inter-continental ballistic rocket capable of hitting any part of the world".

But while experts agree that the test shows Pyongyang has a long-range projectile, many are sceptical that its missiles can successfully deliver warheads.

Have North Korea's missile tests paid off?
What is an ICBM?

A long-range missile usually designed to carry a nuclear warhead
The minimum range is 5,500km (3,400 miles), although most fly about 10,000km or more
Pyongyang has previously displayed two types of ICBMs: the KN-08, with a range of 11,500km, and the KN-14, with a range of 10,000km, but before 4 July had not claimed to have flight tested an ICBM. It is not clear what differentiates the Hwasong-14

North Korea missile: US says it will use military force 'if we must' - BBC News


How many threads have we got on this? I am losing count.

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Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

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Originally Posted by birding

Your reference to nuke reactors is way out of date and has been made redundant by NK now having nukes. This was a deal reached years ago between the US and NK which the US reneged on, if they had carried through with that deal then things would very likely have been much different today.

I can read. I don't need your links. I'm merely pointing out that unlike you I don't believe that deal would have gone anywhere which is just as valid as your belief that it would.

As for the rest; your opinion well for all I know you may be an expert on Korean affairs if that is the case I would respect your opinion, however as I note you have a bridge for sale which you appear to believe you own I cant help thinking you may be somewhat gullible.
[at] [at]

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I'm sorry and what country were you the Ambassador of in North Korea? The gullibility is all on your side. you seem to think for reasons known only to God, that someone with concentration camps all over the country who kills or imprisons whole families at a whim is somebody who can be reasoned with. Shite canning the USA will not fix the problem. If you wish to get off topic do a "Why I hate the USA" thread.

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I have provided links to everything I have written what have you given except the usual regurgitated crap, remember Weapons of mass destruction, Gaddafi giving viagra to his troops same same lies got to ramp up the hate to make killing and destruction acceptable to the voters.

Funny how Russia is so opposed to sanctions being imposed on North Korea.

Don't suppose that's because they work?

:rofl:

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Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

Iran successfully launched ballistic missile (06.05.2017)

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Iran has it's orifices examined and come up clean. Israel has not. Maybe you can understand the difference, or more likely not.

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Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

Why do so many countries have an alliance with America ?

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1. All are indebted to the bankers.
2. I must have missed the NATO and other crusader coalition countries "supporting" ameristani illegal wars. Have any links to the "alliance" doing anything, anywhere in the past month or two?

Probably ISIS in Syria, ISIS in Iran, ISIS in Iraq, ISIS in Phillippine, as yes, are they your "alliance" at work?

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Don't suppose that's because they work?

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Maybe on weaker countries. Unfortunately for ameristan and it's vassals, the DPRK does have neighbours who have balls, mentally, morally and militarily.
:)

Even little Qatar, one city, some good beaches, lots of desert and an oil industry, has given the ameristanis and it's alliance members/vassals the finger.

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Originally Posted by OhOh

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Don't suppose that's because they work?

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Maybe on weaker countries. Unfortunately for ameristan and it's vassals, the DPRK does have neighbours who have balls, mentally, morally and militarily.
:)

Even little Qatar, one city, some good beaches, lots of desert and an oil industry, has given the ameristanis and it's alliance members/vassals the finger.

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America has nothing to do with this, but I wouldn't expect you to know that.

While they are "giving the finger" they're having to up their gas production 30% because they are doing their tits.

Not to mention the rampant inflation and the stagnation of their businesses.

And that's before Saudi presses its foot harder on their necks.

:smileylaughing:

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

to up their gas production 30% because they are doing their tits. Not to mention the rampant inflation and the stagnation of their businesses.

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Golly does that mean another Baluchi is required to turn another valve open. They have plenty of gas to burn. On e wonders if the LNG market is stagnating why the ameristani are offering it to all and sundry, do they have cheaper Baluchis in Texas?

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Originally Posted by OhOh

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

to up their gas production 30% because they are doing their tits. Not to mention the rampant inflation and the stagnation of their businesses.

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Golly does that mean another Baluchi is required to turn another valve open. They have plenty of gas to burn. On e wonders if the LNG market is stagnating why the ameristani are offering it to all and sundry, do they have cheaper Baluchis in Texas?

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I think you are missing the point. How they do it is irrelevant.

The fact that they have to is the issue.

Start with Qatar Airways: They have loads of aircraft gathering dust because not only can't they fly to their neighbours, a HUGE market for premium cabin travel, but even for transit all of their flights are taking much longer because they can only fly out north. I've had three emails in the last week offering me bargain fares :)

All imports are having to come in by air or sea which has pushed the price up on even basic commodities - devastating to low income labourers on which Qatar relies.

And all the companies doing business with Qatar in neighbouring countries are effectively cut off.

And that's before Saudi starts screwing with Qatari banking.

:bananaman:

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Funny how Russia is so opposed to sanctions being imposed on North Korea.

Don't suppose that's because they work?

:rofl:

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Name one example where sanctions have worked.
(Perhaps Cuba?)

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Originally Posted by Klondyke

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Funny how Russia is so opposed to sanctions being imposed on North Korea.

Don't suppose that's because they work?

:rofl:

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Name one example where sanctions have worked.
(Perhaps Cuba?)

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https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2017/07/873.jpg

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

And all the companies doing business with Qatar in neighbouring countries are effectively cut off. And that's before Saudi starts screwing with Qatari banking.

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Lets keep the focus on DPRK here, shall we?

An ameristani has allegedly said that the recent DPRK does not take anybody a step closer to war. Somewhat different that a ameristani UN ambassador.


"U.S. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said on Thursday North Korea's intercontinental ballistic missile test this week did not bring the parties closer to a war and U.S. efforts to deal with the crisis continued to be spearheaded by diplomatic and economic efforts, CNN reported.
"I do not believe this capability in itself brings us closer to war because the president has been very clear, the secretary of state has been very clear, that we are leading with diplomatic and economic efforts," CNN quoted Mattis as telling reporters in the Pentagon."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-n...-idUSKBN19R2N6




It appears the Russians and Chinese have published a detailed alternative to a war. One wonders why it won't be tried.

Joint statement by the Russian and Chinese foreign ministries on the Korean Peninsula’s problems



Joint statement by the Russian and Chinese foreign ministries on the Korean Peninsula?s problems - Republic of Korea - The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation
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"1. The Parties are seriously worried by the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK)’s statement of July 4, 2017 about a ballistic missile launch and consider this statement unacceptable and in disharmony with the relevant UN Security Council resolutions.

2. The Parties express serious concern about the development of the situation on the Korean Peninsula and around it. Mounting political and military tension in that region, fraught with the eruption of an armed conflict, are calling on the international community to adopt collective measures to settle the situation peacefully through dialogue and consultations. The Parties oppose any statements or moves that might escalate tension or aggravate the contradictions and urge all countries concerned to maintain calm, renounce provocative moves or bellicose rhetoric, demonstrate readiness for dialogue without preconditions and work actively together to defuse tension.

3.The Parties are putting forward a joint initiative, which is based on the Chinese-proposed ideas of “double freezing” (missile and nuclear activities by the DPRK and large-scale joint exercises by the United States and the Republic of Korea) and “parallel advancement” towards the denuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula and the creation of peace mechanisms on the peninsula, and the Russian-proposed stage-by-stage Korean settlement plan.

The Parties propose the following:
The DPRK, by way of a voluntary political decision, announces a moratorium on the testing of nuclear explosive devices and ballistic missile tests, and the United States and the Republic of Korea should, accordingly, refrain from large-scale joint exercises. Simultaneously, the conflicting parties begin talks and assert common principles of their relations, including the non-use of force, the renunciation of aggression, peaceful coexistence and determination to do all they can to denuclearise the Korean Peninsula with a view to promoting a complex resolution of all problems, including the nuclear issue. During the negotiating process, all parties concerned push forward, in a format suitable to them, the creation on the peninsula and in Northeast Asia of a peace and security mechanism and consequently normalise relations between the countries in question.

The Parties urge the international community to support the aforementioned initiative that paves the real way for resolving the Korean Peninsula’s problems.

4.The Parties are resolutely committed to the international non-proliferation regime and are firmly aimed at the denuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula and a comprehensive and full implementation of the relevant UN Security Council resolutions. The Parties intend, jointly with other parties concerned, to continue making efforts to facilitate the balanced removal of the existing concerns via dialogue and consultations.
The Parties confirm that the DPRK’s justified concerns should be respected. Other states must make relevant efforts to have talks resumed and jointly to create an atmosphere of peacefulness and mutual trust.

The Parties are calling on all parties involved to comply with the commitments formulated in the Joint Statement of September 19, 2005, and to re-launch, as soon as possible, the dialogue on the comprehensive resolution of problems on the Korean Peninsula. Any possibility of using military means to solve the problems of the Korean Peninsula should be ruled out.

5. The Parties express support for the North and the South of the Korean Peninsula to conduct dialogue and consultations, display benevolence towards each other, improve relations, cooperate in the matter of a peaceful settlement, and play a due role in defusing the situation on the Korean Peninsula and in resolving its problems in a proper manner.

6. The Parties confirm that they are paying sufficient attention to the maintenance of the international and regional balance and stability, and emphasise that allied relations between separate states should not inflict damage on the interests of third parties. They are against any military presence of extra-regional forces in Northeast Asia and its build-up under the pretext of counteracting the DPRK’s missile and nuclear programmes.

The Parties confirm that the deployment of THAAD antimissile systems in Northeast Asia is inflicting serious damage on strategic security interests of regional states, including Russia and China, and does nothing to help achieve the aims of the Korean Peninsula’s denuclearisation, nor to ensure peace and stability in the region.
Russia and China are against the deployment of the said systems, call on the relevant countries to immediately stop and cancel the deployment process, and have agreed to adopt the necessary measures to protect the two countries’ security interests and to ensure a strategic balance in the region.

This statement was signed on July 4, 2017, in Moscow.

For the Ministry of Foreign Affairs For the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
of the Russian Federation of the People’s Republic of China



https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2017/07/975.jpg

Although awaiting confirmation by CNN or The NY Times :), allegedly the ROK have offered unconditional talks to the DPRK.

South Korea offers military, Red Cross talks with DPRK - Global Times
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South Korea offers military, Red Cross talks with DPRK


Source:Xinhua Published: 2017/7/17 11:19:35

South Korea on Monday offered military and Red Cross talks with the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) to ease military tensions along the inter-Korean border and resume humanitarian exchange between peoples of the two sides.

Vice Defense Minister Suh Choo-suk said in a statement at the defense ministry that South Korea proposed to the DPRK for holding talks of the military authorities on Friday at Tongilgak, a building in the DPRK side of the truce village of Panmunjom.

The dialogue was aimed at stopping all hostile acts that escalate military tensions near the military demarcation line (MDL) dividing the two Koreas, the vice minister said.

Suh called on Pyongyang to restore the military communications line in the western region to send a reply to South Korea's dialogue overture, expressing anticipation of the DPRK's positive response."

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Originally Posted by OhOh

[I]South Korea on Monday offered military and Red Cross talks with the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) to ease military tensions along the inter-Korean border and resume humanitarian exchange between peoples of the two sides.

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No, this is just South Korea giving more free shit to North Korea to try to calm them down / appease them temporarily - and it always fails.

Just like the "Sunshine Policy."

That was a failure.


It's just NK getting more free shit and then going agressive and threatening again in the (near) future.

What is there in the post you quoted that is about NK 'getting more free shit'?

:confused:

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Originally Posted by Cold Pizza

Just like the "Sunshine Policy."

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Sunshine Policy failed because GWB pulled the legs off it when he pulled the US support for jt. It had been going well and gaining ground til that point.

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Originally Posted by cyrille

What is there in the post you quoted that is about NK 'getting more free shit'?

:confused:

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Re-read it.

You have not followed this topic for 20+ years like I have and i worked with South Koreans for 6 (painful) years.

"Humanitarian exchange" is the South giving NK free shit -again.

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Originally Posted by fred flintstone

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Originally Posted by Cold Pizza

Just like the "Sunshine Policy."

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Sunshine Policy failed because GWB pulled the legs off it when he pulled the US support for jt. It had been going well and gaining ground til that point.

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I disagree completely.