Thread: Islamic Terror strikes again in France

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Intelligence services have to try to stop every attack while the terrorists only need to succeed occasionally. Any of you James Bonds care to tell us how many attacks intelligence agencies have prevented as opposed to how many have got through ?

I wonder if we are becoming too confident in the 'background chatter' Intel . AQ/Isil are more than capable of using out of date but efficient communication methods for this type of organisation.

Originally Posted by Troy

...and let's not turn this into a religious hatred thing...please...

Too many on here are already on that bandwagon . . . everyone I speak to here (Muslims) condemn this absolutely . . . luckily we have pompeysbroke and Herman packing and going to fight in Syria and Iraq

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Their weakness, and that of the other EU countries, in dealing with breaches of their territory will haunt them for years to come.

I'm afraid you're quite right

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

What did we do during the war with Japan or Germany to quell homeland attacks. Anyone remember? I do.

You are such a moronic turd . . . no better way of saying it.

Go on, what did YOU do during WWII to quell homeland attacks . . . how did you 'quell' them?
Oh, that's right, by being thousands of miles away from action - just like now when you bomb the fuck out of places like Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq etc.. lately from the security of a room in Nevada

But go on - how did YOU do it and what relevance has it to this situation

The Sky Tower, (view from my apartment) lit-up tonight showing special recognition/respect following the attacks in France.

[QUOTE=panama hat;3141401]

Originally Posted by Troy

...and let's not turn this into a religious hatred thing...please...

Too many on here are already on that bandwagon . . . everyone I speak to here (Muslims) condemn this absolutely . . .[QUOTE Panama hat]

I don't know if it's the media that suppress their condemnations of these acts of terror but here in the UK we don't get to see or hear much from the Muslim population.

Unfortunately, as history has shown, our (the civilized worlds) response to this terrorist attack will be to clamp down the borders and become more xenophobic toward the muslims.

Of course, as time goes on and our memories fade, we will become complacent. Until such a time as the next attack occurs.

The cycle repeats. Again, and again.

Expect international travel to become far more difficult in the near term.

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

Yes, you are right Davis. France was asleep at the wheel.

Probably not snoozing at all, better chance that France is on high alert [certainly with their recent history] and quite intelligence apt.

I believe there might be sort of subliminal lackadaisical process as to the workings of the boogieman terrorists and their tactics, which have exceedingly secured high intelligence structure and organisation - probably more so than their Western intelligence counterparts......usually ten steps ahead. They're not raghead bumpkins - they're intelligence networks match any worthy counterpart.

These events of the last 24 hours could have easily been carried off in London, New York, Toronto, or Sydney just with the ease as they wish and we all know such acts will continue worldwide - as they understand you better than you'll ever comprehend. Sleeper cells, or associated entities, are not a myth within today's world and extraordinarily organised.

Too late now, as the Pandora's Box was opened decades ago.....but a decent defence would be to begin to mind your own, short of your imperial expansion.

Just don't comprehend the base cause and effect. Continuing to exist in your fantasy world.

^Agree, I have a few Muslim friends in NZ... some of the nicest and most reasonable people you could meet...it's the extremists of any religious sect that we have to watch out for.

Religion....such a wonderful thing innit. ....and all of it based on so much fact solid foundations.

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

I think decimation of immigrants ( pour encourager les autres ), prohibition on travel, closure of all mosques and schools, the banning of their religion are all reasonable steps and any failure to observe restrictions should result in immediate deportation via prison ships to whichever shithole is handy.

Arbeit Macht Frei!

"Arbeit Macht Frei!" implies working and starving them to death though, rather than loading them onto prison ships.
Thanks for showing your true colours.

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Was it only yesterday on the Jihadi John thread that several posters were lobbying for fair trials for terrorists?

I don't think I was one of those posters Davis. It ususally takes something like this to wake some people up and drag them back into reality. Maybe some countries will get real now when it comes to those guilty of this type of nonsense.

Aren't fair trials there to ensure the accused are actually guilty, and determine the appropriate sentence?

Originally Posted by stroller

Aren't fair trials there to ensure the accused are actually guilty, and determine the appropriate sentence?

You are right. He should have come back and stand trial. He chose to not do that.

Originally Posted by Bower

I don't know if it's the media that suppress their condemnations of these acts of terror but here in the UK we don't get to see or hear much from the Muslim population.

Muslims around the world, from religious leaders and politicians to ordinary people, meanwhile, are condemning the attacks.
In an official statement, Iranian president Hassan Rouhani called the attacks a “crime against humanity.”
In the name of the Iranian people, who have themselves been victims of terrorism, I strongly condemn these crimes against humanity and offer my condolences to the grieving French people and government.

Indonesian president Joko Widodo condemned the “violence that took place in Paris,” and called for more international cooperation to fight terrorism.

Leaders of Arab states called the attacks immoral and inhumane.

Qatar’s foreign minister Khaled al-Attiyah denounced the “heinous attacks,” adding, “these acts, which target stability and security in France are against all human and moral values.”

Kuwaiti Emir Sheikh Sabah al-Sabah called the attacks “criminal acts of terrorism which run counter to all teachings of holy faith and humanitarian values.”

The Saudi foreign ministry called for global cooperation to “root out this dangerous and destructive plague.”

Paris has suffered Europe?s worst terror attack in 10 years. Here?s what happened - Quartz

New Zealand's Islamic leaders have condemned the "cowardly and shocking" terrorist attacks in Paris.
Paris terror attack: NZ Islamic leaders condemn attack

Najib, Prime Minister of Malaysia, Wan Azizah condemn Paris attacks
Najib, Wan Azizah condemn Paris attacks - The Malaysian Insider

Dutch Muslim groups condemn Paris Attacks - NL Times

Muslim clerics defy ISIS, condemn Paris terror attacks
Muslim clerics defy ISIS, condemn Paris terror attacks - Daily Sabah

As usual, though, the posters for whom nothing can be done well enough will blurt out that these people didn't say things exactly the way they should have, HermanTheGerman will go apoplectic that no Muslims/governments are doing anything to battle extremism, pompeysanidiot will talk about some horrid British town and raping Pakistanis etc . . .

...and of course the condemnations and condolences are insincere, our resident 'experts' just know that ALL Muslims wish death and suffering upon the infidels.

PH, it's not presidents and prime ministers I refer to, I mean the local populous . I have never seen reports by Muslim groups in the local papers or regional tv stations condemning these actions but the few Muslims I do know are quick and sincere I believe in their revulsion to these terrorist groups.
The moderat Muslims must shout louder I feel.

Originally Posted by Bower

PH, it's not presidents and prime ministers I refer to, I mean the local populous . I have never seen reports by Muslim groups in the local papers or regional tv stations condemning these actions but the few Muslims I do know are quick and sincere I believe in their revulsion to these terrorist groups.
The moderat Muslims must shout louder I feel.

Perhaps you should blame the local papers and regional TV stations. It's them (their editors) that choose what to publish and broadcast, not local residents.

Originally Posted by Bower

PH, it's not presidents and prime ministers I refer to, I mean the local populous . I have never seen reports by Muslim groups in the local papers or regional tv stations condemning these actions but the few Muslims I do know are quick and sincere I believe in their revulsion to these terrorist groups.
The moderat Muslims must shout louder I feel.

Follow the link - ordinary people voicing their shock and horror at these atrocities. Muslims who I met today, I live in a majority-Muslim country, broached the subject of the horrors in France and how awful it is . . . I'm NOT French, simply Caucasian

Now, let's turn this around.

'White Christian' soldiers have been killing Muslims for decades now, Iraq/Syria/Afghanistan etc...
For all intents and purposes the result is the same = dead innocents

When was the last time YOU went up to Muslims and apologised, told them how terrible a thing this killing is, went on line and criticised the western white christian killers etc....

The problem is that we don't associate ourselves with the countries bombing and killing, even though we may even have that nationality - - - WE are not to blame for the carnage OUR tax dollars pay for . . . yet WE expect THEM (ALL of them) to scream their horror from the rooftops when 'we' are targeted and 'our' people are senselessly and brutaly murdered by these animals

Originally Posted by Bower

I don't know if it's the media that suppress their condemnations of these acts of terror but here in the UK we don't get to see or hear much from the Muslim population.

Muslim Council of Britain (MCB)

Horrific Attacks in Paris: Muslim Council of Britain Responds

Following the murderous attacks in Paris on Friday 13 November, the Muslim Council of Britain’s Secretary General Dr Shuja Shafi issued the following statement:

““The attacks once again in Paris are horrific and abhorrent, and we condemn this violence in the strongest possible terms. My thoughts and prayers for the families of those killed and injured and for the people of France, our neighbours.

This attack is being claimed by the group calling themselves ‘Islamic State’. There is nothing Islamic about such people and their actions are evil, and outside the boundaries set by our faith.

This week we have once again witnessed outrageous attacks be that in Beirut earlier in the week or Paris today – there is no justification for such carnage whatsoever. We hope the remaining people responsible are brought to justice and face the full force of the law.”Horrific Attacks in Paris: Muslim Council of Britain Responds | Muslim Council of Britain (MCB)


Easy enough for me to find, and there are lots more

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by Bower

PH, it's not presidents and prime ministers I refer to, I mean the local populous . I have never seen reports by Muslim groups in the local papers or regional tv stations condemning these actions but the few Muslims I do know are quick and sincere I believe in their revulsion to these terrorist groups.
The moderat Muslims must shout louder I feel.

Perhaps you should blame the local papers and regional TV stations. It's them (their editors) that choose what to publish and broadcast, not local residents.

If you read my post #79, that's exactly what I am suggesting, that the papers and tv stations show a bias.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by Bower

I don't know if it's the media that suppress their condemnations of these acts of terror but here in the UK we don't get to see or hear much from the Muslim population.

Muslim Council of Britain (MCB)

Horrific Attacks in Paris: Muslim Council of Britain Responds

Following the murderous attacks in Paris on Friday 13 November, the Muslim Council of Britain’s Secretary General Dr Shuja Shafi issued the following statement:

““The attacks once again in Paris are horrific and abhorrent, and we condemn this violence in the strongest possible terms. My thoughts and prayers for the families of those killed and injured and for the people of France, our neighbours.

This attack is being claimed by the group calling themselves ‘Islamic State’. There is nothing Islamic about such people and their actions are evil, and outside the boundaries set by our faith.

This week we have once again witnessed outrageous attacks be that in Beirut earlier in the week or Paris today – there is no justification for such carnage whatsoever. We hope the remaining people responsible are brought to justice and face the full force of the law.”Horrific Attacks in Paris: Muslim Council of Britain Responds | Muslim Council of Britain (MCB)


Easy enough for me to find, and there are lots more

Indeed easy enough to find if you are looking, however I have had the radio on all day, I have seen today's newspapers. I have been listening to customers.
Not a mention of the MCB statement. The public are only exposed to the opinions of the media owned by just a few mega rich billionaires.

Muslims that do this shit are no different from the kkk. Minority fvckwits. However, both groups of fvckwits should be hit much much harder.

Originally Posted by Bower

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by Bower

PH, it's not presidents and prime ministers I refer to, I mean the local populous . I have never seen reports by Muslim groups in the local papers or regional tv stations condemning these actions but the few Muslims I do know are quick and sincere I believe in their revulsion to these terrorist groups.
The moderat Muslims must shout louder I feel.

Perhaps you should blame the local papers and regional TV stations. It's them (their editors) that choose what to publish and broadcast, not local residents.

If you read my post #79, that's exactly what I am suggesting, that the papers and tv stations show a bias.

Of course they do.
Might you expect anything less.
It's what the establishment media [which most imbibe] does well.

Sent to me by one of my sons #TerrorismHasNoReligion
Maybe social media will be the way to slow down the whipping up of common hate amongst the Western press.

Originally Posted by Neo

US President Barack Obama spoke of "an outrageous attempt to terrorise innocent civilians".

The guy really needs to know when to shut the fuck up.

Cheap shot Neo strikes again.
Since you're Putin's mouthpiece, what did he have to say?

There is nothing Islamic about such people and their actions are evil, and outside the boundaries set by our faith.

rubbish.

Will politicians finally admit that the Paris attacks had something to do with Islam?
Douglas Murray




French president Francois Hollande speaks at the Elysee palace in Paris on November 14, 2015, following a series of coordinated attacks in and around Paris late Friday which left more than 120 people dead (Photo: Getty)


14 November 2015

The West’s movement towards the truth is remarkably slow. We drag ourselves towards it painfully, inch by inch, after each bloody Islamist assault.

In France, Britain, Germany, America and nearly every other country in the world it remains government policy to say that any and all attacks carried out in the name of Mohammed have ‘nothing to do with Islam’.

It was said by George W. Bush after 9/11, Tony Blair after 7/7 and Tony Abbott after the Sydney attack last month.

It is what David Cameron said after two British extremists cut off the head of Drummer Lee Rigby in London, when ‘Jihadi John’ cut off the head of aid worker Alan Henning in the ‘Islamic State’ and when Islamic extremists attacked a Kenyan mall, separated the Muslims from the Christians and shot the latter in the head.

It was what President François Hollande said after the massacre of journalists and Jews in Paris in January.

And it is all that most politicians will be able to come out with again after the latest atrocities in Paris.

All these leaders are wrong. In private, they and their senior advisers often concede that they are telling a lie. The most sympathetic explanation is that they are telling a ‘noble lie’, provoked by a fear that we — the general public — are a lynch mob in waiting. ‘Noble’ or not, this lie is a mistake.

First, because the general public do not rely on politicians for their information and can perfectly well read articles and books about Islam for themselves.

Secondly, because the lie helps no one understand the threat we face.

Thirdly, because it takes any heat off Muslims to deal with the bad traditions in their own religion. And fourthly, because unless mainstream politicians address these matters then one day perhaps the public will overtake their politicians to a truly alarming extent.

If politicians are so worried about this secondary ‘backlash’ problem then they would do well to remind us not to blame the jihadists’ actions on our peaceful compatriots and then deal with the primary problem — radical Islam — in order that no secondary, reactionary problem will ever grow.

Yet today our political class fuels both cause and nascent effect. Because the truth is there for all to see.

To claim that people who punish people by killing them for blaspheming Islam while shouting ‘Allah is greatest’ has ‘nothing to do with Islam’ is madness. Because the violence of the Islamists is, truthfully, only to do with Islam: the worst version of Islam, certainly, but Islam nonetheless.

In January a chink was broken in this wall of disinformation when Sajid Javid, the only Muslim-born member of the British cabinet, and one of its brightest hopes, dipped a toe into this water. After the Charlie Hebdo attacks, he told the BBC: ‘The lazy answer would be to say that this has got nothing whatsoever to do with Islam or Muslims and that should be the end of that. That would be lazy and wrong.’ Sadly, he proceeded to utter the second most lazy thing one can say: ‘These people are using Islam, taking a peaceful religion and using it as a tool to carry out their activities.’


Here we land at the centre of the problem — a centre we have spent the last decade and a half trying to avoid: Islam is not a peaceful religion. No religion is, but Islam is especially not. Nor is it, as some ill-informed people say, solely a religion of war. There are many peaceful verses in the Quran which — luckily for us — the majority of Muslims live by. But it is, by no means, only a religion of peace.

I say this not because I hate Islam, nor do I have any special animus against Muslims, but simply because this is the verifiable truth based on the texts. Until we accept that we will never defeat the violence, we risk encouraging whole populations to take against all of Islam and abandon all those Muslims who are trying desperately to modernise, reform and de-literalise their faith. And — most importantly — we will give up our own traditions of free speech and historical inquiry and allow one religion to have an unbelievable advantage in the free marketplace of ideas.

It is not surprising that politicians have tried to avoid this debate by spinning a lie.

The world would be an infinitely safer place if the historical Mohammed had behaved more like Buddha or Jesus. But he did not and an increasing number of people — Muslim and non-Muslim — have been able to learn this for themselves in recent years.

But the light of modern critical inquiry which has begun to fall on Islam is a process which is already proving incredibly painful.

The ‘cartoon wars’ — which began when the Danish paper Jyllands-Posten published a set of cartoons in 2005 — are part of that.

But as Flemming Rose, the man who commissioned those cartoons, said when I sat down with him earlier this year, there remains a deep ignorance in the West about what people like the Charlie Hebdo murderers wish to achieve. And we keep ducking it. As Rose said, ‘I wish we had addressed all this nine years ago.’

Contra the political leaders, the Charlie Hebdo murderers and the latest Paris attackers were not lunatics without motive, but highly motivated extremists intent on enforcing their Islamic ideas on 21st-century Europe. If you do not know the ideology — perverted or plausible though it may be — you can neither understand nor prevent such attacks.

Nor, without knowing some Islamic history, could you understand why — whether in Mumbai or Paris — the Islamists always target the Jews.

Of course, some people are willing to give up a few of our rights. There seems, as Rose says in his book on the Danish cartoons affair,The Tyranny of Silence, some presumption that a diverse society requires greater limitations on speech, whereas of course the more diverse the society, the more diverse you are going to have to see your speech be.

It is not just cartoons, but a whole system of inquiry which is being shut down in the West by way of hard intimidation and soft claims of offence-taking.

The result is that, in contemporary Europe, Islam receives not an undue amount of criticism but a free ride which is unfair to all other religions.

The night after the Charlie Hebdo atrocities I was pre-recording a Radio 4 programme. My fellow discussant was a very nice Muslim man who works to ‘de-radicalise’ extremists.

We agreed on nearly everything. But at some point he said that one reason Muslims shouldn’t react to such cartoons is that Mohammed never objected to critics.

There may be some positive things to be said about Mohammed, but I thought this was pushing things too far and mentioned just one occasion when Mohammed didn’t welcome a critic.

Asma bint Marwan was a female poetess who mocked the ‘Prophet’ and who, as a result, Mohammed had killed.

It is in the texts. It is not a problem for me. But I can understand why it is a problem for decent Muslims.

The moment I said this, my Muslim colleague went berserk. How dare I say this? I replied that it was in the Hadith and had a respectable chain of transmission (an important debate).

He said it was a fabrication which he would not allow to stand.

The upshot was that he refused to continue unless all mention of this was wiped from the recording. The BBC team agreed and I was left trying to find another way to express the same point.

The broadcast had this ‘offensive’ fact left out.

I cannot imagine another religious discussion where this would happen, but it is perfectly normal when discussing Islam.

On that occasion I chose one case, but I could have chosen many others, such as the hundreds of Jews Mohammed beheaded with his own hand.

Again, that’s in the mainstream Islamic sources. I haven’t made it up. It used to be a problem for Muslims to rationalise, but now there are people trying to imitate such behaviour in our societies it has become a problem for all of us, and I don’t see why people in the free world should have to lie about what we read in historical texts.

We may all share a wish that these traditions were not there but they are and they look set to have serious consequences for us all. We might all agree that the history of Christianity has hardly been un-bloody. But is it not worth asking whether the history of Christianity would have been more bloody or less bloody if, instead of telling his followers to ‘turn the other cheek’, Jesus had called (even once) for his disciples to ‘slay’ non–believers and chop off their heads?

This is a problem with Islam — one that Muslims are going to have to work through. They could do so by a process which forces them to take their foundational texts less literally, or by an intellectually acceptable process of cherry-picking verses.

Or prominent clerics could unite to declare the extremists non-Muslim. But there isn’t much hope of this happening. Last month, al-Azhar University in Cairo declared that although Isis members are terrorists they cannot be described as heretics.

We have spent 15 years pretending things about Islam, a complex religion with competing interpretations. It is true that most Muslims live their lives peacefully. But a sizeable portion (around 15 per cent and more in most surveys) follow a far more radical version. The remainder are sitting on a religion which is, in many of its current forms, a deeply unstable component. That has always been a problem for reformist Muslims. But the results of ongoing mass immigration to the West at the same time as a worldwide return to Islamic literalism means that this is now a problem for all of us. To stand even a chance of dealing with it, we are going to have to wake up to it and acknowledge it for what it is.

This is an updated version of an article that was published in The Spectator on 17 January 2015.

Will politicians finally admit that the Paris attacks had something to do with Islam? - Spectator Blogs


takeovers

This said I have no doubt that the vast majority of Muslims are basically decent people. But when there is a conflict they will without hesitation decide to be Muslims first.

Until that majority stands up against the extremists and take their religion and life philosophy back from them I blame every Muslim for what is happening.

... and i am inclined to agree wholeheartedly with you.


.... and there you have it.