Thread: SpaceX - On to Mars

Originally Posted by Takeovers

That tumble was intentional, it was supposed to be part of the stage separation process, which unfortunately failed. Also that some engines were still running was intentional. They would provide thrust vector steering to point the booster for the boostback burn.

Infos were anonymous, no names given.

They'll likely say optimistic things considering that their paycheques depend on the whims of a mercurial man-baby.

"Uh, yeah. It was a planned 'Scheduled Unintentional Disassembly.' A smashing success. Elon is a genius."

Originally Posted by happynz

Disassembly

That's what I got out of the explosion . . . more double-talk 1984-style.

Originally Posted by DrWilly

Regolith is not soil. Toxic perchlorates are not contaminants.

Dist you miss the part where it says " perchlorates and would make a very poor soil for plants seems to rule out dirt farming."?

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

Dist you miss the part where it says " perchlorates and would make a very poor soil for plants seems to rule out dirt farming."?

Oh ffs. Some people are educated, some people not educated, and the really stupid refuse to be educated.

Regolith can become soil. But it is not soil.

Originally Posted by DrWilly

Oh ffs. Some people are educated, some people not educated, and the really stupid refuse to be educated.

Not my fault. I tried to educate you, but you can toke a horse to water but you cant make it drink
From NASA's website.
"Regolith is loose, unconsolidated rock, mineral and glass fragments in the soil. "
Regolith Formation | NASA

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

"Regolith is loose, unconsolidated rock, mineral and glass fragments in the soil. "
Regolith Formation | NASA

You read, but you cannot understand. Takeovers tried to tell you above also.

Soil is organic. You need dead organisms to form soil. You know, life! plus the regolith make soil.

Regolith is the loose rocks and other material without the organics!

eg: Mince is not spaghetti, flour is not bread, tomato paste is not pizza.

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

Where did you buy you Doctorate at the morning farmers market?

He aims to be an expert on all subjects he posts about

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

This is what I said:
" "Martian regolith has toxic levels of perchlorates and would make a very poor soil for plants seems to rule out dirt farming. ""

Still wrong. Removing perchlorate is not hard. Numerous tests have been done with Mars regolith equivalents to show how to transform them into soil. As I mentioned before, plants can grow in regolith, given mineral fertilizers. That way the regolith becomes soil.

^ I've watched the film Martian

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Still wrong.

Not Me!! Wikipedia. I have never been to Mars.
And not only not conducive to agriculture but dangerous to humans.
The levels detected in the Martian soil are around 0.5%, which is a level considered toxic to humans. These compounds are also toxic to plants. "
So don't correct me, go corect Wikipedia.
Can they be removed from a section of land to make it suitable for agriculture?
Sure!!
Can it be removed from the whole of Mars to remove the danger to humans?
Probably not.

I can't help thinking hydroponics is the way to go, initially.

Originally Posted by malmomike77

^ I've watched the film Martian

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

Not Me!! Wikipedia. I have never been to Mars.

So don't correct me, go corect Wikipedia.

.

Both of you, just carry on. I give up.

What sort of timeframe do you give to humans having a fully functioning, self-reliant colony that is pleasurable, and not just bearable for the humans living there, TO?

Around 500 years?

Originally Posted by Edmond

What sort of timeframe do you give to humans having a fully functioning, self-reliant colony that is pleasurable, and not just bearable for the humans living there, TO?

Around 500 years?

Assuming self-reliant as in it can survive if contact with Earth is lost?!

Hard to say. Elon Musk mentioned 2050. But that would require a not insignificant part of global wealth every year, which will not happen. My best guess around 80-100 years with annual expense of $10-20 billion. I think it needs to be started with Elon Musk finance. As soon as there is a somewhat stable and growing settlement with some industry working, others will invest. Investment does not need to return any goods to Earth. Profits can be made by dealing with shares on Earth.

Originally Posted by Edmond

What sort of timeframe do you give to humans having a fully functioning, self-reliant colony that is pleasurable, and not just bearable for the humans living there, TO?

Around 500 years?

Probably more like 50 - 100 years after the first permanent colony is established.

^ Which will happen in 400-450 years time?

A big issue, well, one of the big issues is conception and birth. There are some interesting times ahead for those that will be alive to see it.

Originally Posted by qwerty

Probably more like 50 - 100 years after the first permanent colony is established.

Originally Posted by Edmond

^ Which will happen in 400-450 years time?

A permanently manned base within 10-15 years, or never. It happens now or will never be attempted.

^ a plate dropper of a comment if ever I saw one.


Go Musky!

Go Musky!

Originally Posted by Edmond

A big issue, well, one of the big issues is conception and birth.

Wanted to comment on this one too. I fully agree that this is a make or break condition. I am optimistic, but it needs proof ASAP.

I expect that they will deploy a Starship with crew in Earth orbit for 6+ months to test out life support. They can easily operate a centrifuge with Mars gravity and grow rats at least. Maybe even cats, their reproduction cycle is short enough to see from conception to birth and some growth.

However nothing can replace humans trying. But for that they really need to be on Mars. I can't imagine a woman getting pregnant, conceive a child and have it grow for a few years on a rotating space station. Some people are getting furious about this and scream, human guinea pig, must be prohibited. I encountered some in discussions. I say, there will be plenty of volunteers and who are those people to deny them that right?

Here is what ChatGPT has to say about the technical and psychological challenges faced by Mars colonists.

(HNZ)

Technical and psychological challenges with Mars colony

As of my knowledge cutoff in 2021, there are several potential problems that could arise with a Mars colony:

Radiation: Mars has a very thin atmosphere that provides little protection against solar radiation and cosmic rays, which can be harmful to human health over long periods of time. To mitigate this, the colony would need to be shielded in some way, such as by building habitats underground or using radiation-blocking materials.

Extreme weather conditions: Mars has a very harsh environment, with temperatures that can range from -195°F (-125°C) at the poles to 70°F (20°C) at the equator, and dust storms that can last for months. This would make it challenging to maintain a sustainable colony, and require the development of specialized equipment and structures to withstand the conditions.

Limited resources: Mars is a barren planet with no readily available sources of food or water. Any colony would need to be self-sufficient and able to produce its own resources, which would require advanced technology and infrastructure. Additionally, any supplies or equipment sent from Earth would be extremely expensive and difficult to transport.

Psychological challenges: Living on a remote and isolated planet for an extended period of time could have psychological impacts on the colonists, such as depression, anxiety, and feelings of isolation. This would require careful consideration of the mental health and well-being of the colonists, as well as measures to maintain communication with Earth and provide social support.

Political and economic challenges: Establishing a Mars colony would require significant investment and cooperation from multiple governments and private organizations. This would likely involve complex negotiations and agreements, as well as the development of new regulations and policies for extraterrestrial activity. There may also be concerns around resource exploitation and potential conflicts over territory and ownership.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Still wrong. Removing perchlorate is not hard

Where did I say the removing perchlorate is not hard????
What is hard , or even impossible is removing it from the whole planet. Perchlorates are not only detrimental to farming, but are also toxic to humans.
Perchlorate are in the soil that blows in the wind and collects on everything.
---So no large scale agriculture on Mars to support the numbers required for colonization.
And you all seem to get hung up on the perchlorates. Perchlorate are only one of the things that would make colonization not only dangerous but also impractical, combine that with all the other thing I mentioned earlier ,and I would venture to say that with today's or near futures' technology imposible. At best we can hope for a small research group living in a hole, and every time it leaves this hole it would have wear protective space suit , carry it own breathing air, and decontaminate teir selves and equipment every time they clime back in their hole.

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

What is hard , or even impossible is removing it from the whole planet.

I don't see full terraforming of Mars, ever. There will be closed pressurized habitats. These will not be holes, that's just FUD like most of the "problems". I expect most habitats under ground but also transparent domes with plants, because human psychology needs it, at least occasionally.

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

And you all seem to get hung up on the perchlorates.

It is what you brought up.