Thread: Why are many Americans so Patriotic about their country

I think the human race will be gasping and fighting for water resources, long before airspace. And lets face it- what other resource can make hydrocarbons seem a luxury option?

I think that it is difficult for many British and Europeans to grasp just how big the US is and how many different cultures live within its boarders. The US is obviously full of people with British and European heritage. Many of whom are still close to their cultural identity and heritage, however there are even more whom have lost touch with that and only identify themselves as American. Not to mention the Mexican Americans, Native Americans etc,, etc..

There is a reason why it is called a melting pot. For better or worse. Laying down broad stereotypes about such a huge country with so many diverse peoples residing in it is the height of stupidity.

What you can bank on is that the American government is bought and paid for by the richest people in the country, it is not a democracy, the military and prison industrial complexes are very real and there is a media war on in the US for control of minds.

Originally Posted by chassamui

Originally Posted by Looper

Since we only have wars in poor countries these days air superiority is no longer a high priority.

Whatever the situation and who ever the enemy may be, command of the airspace is always the first priority. There will come a time in the not too distant future when it is the only priority.
For anything else there are special forces and Barclaycard.

Thank you Charles please allow me to rephrase.

Of course air-superiority is essential, it goes without saying. What I meant was that the F22 was designed to gain that air-superiority in the face of projected stiff competition. The reality of the modern day proxy-wars in poor countries is that air superiority can be achieved with fairly average 3rd generation platforms like the trusty F/A 18.

In the extremely unlikely event that the west ever went to war with Russia/China then the F22 could actually stretch its wings a bit.

Originally Posted by bsnub

What you can bank on is that the American government is bought and paid for by the richest people in the country, it is not a democracy, the military and prison industrial complexes are very real and there is a media war on in the US for control of minds.

Melodramatic cobblers cock-bollix. Wherever there is democracy there is media competition for influence over peoples opinions. That is how democracy works. Trying to put a machiavellian bond-villain spin on it to present yourself as someone who sees 'the big picture' and who is is not 'taken in' by this elaborate scheme (bwa-ha-ha etc.) is such a load of tired tit-bags.

Originally Posted by bsnub

however there are even more whom have lost touch with that

who

Originally Posted by Looper

That is how democracy works.

It doesn't work and neither does capitalism.

Originally Posted by Looper

who

When was the last time you have been to the states?

Originally Posted by bsnub

It doesn't work and neither does capitalism.

Too addicted to a two party system with no grey areas or smaller parties for the oddballs.

Of course democracy is not perfect but it's the closest thing we have got.

Looper is absolutely correct madia is the new religion. Control the masses and influence the powerful.

Originally Posted by chassamui

Of course democracy is not perfect but it's the closest thing we have got.

Yep when you think rational like we do. When your brain is addled with relgious poisen then it is another story.

Originally Posted by chassamui

Too addicted to a two party system with no grey areas or smaller parties for the oddballs.

Could even question the two-party identity.
It's all quite dangerously homogenous.

The establishment.

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

It's just a country, like any other.

America is not a country, it's a company; and it's citizens are just staff.
The flag-waving is just to compensate for the fact that it's not a real country.
It's products tend to cause problems in real countries, especially mde-up concepts like "race".

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Originally Posted by Humbert

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

and the fact that percentage-wise few Americans ever leave it

There is an oft repeated myth that percentage wise few Americans hold passports. This is a myth that cannot be substantiated.

Don't believe I ever mentioned passports. My original quote also said "....other than on group tours or the like."

I was not disparaging America or Americans. It has simply been my experience that America is such a vast country, with so much to offer within its borders, that many Americans see no need to leave.

There is also no "gap year" tradition in the US and students usually go straight to work (if they can find a job).

I think its also partially because relatively more Americans are happy/content living in the US. Yeah I meet fellow Americans that don't like it there and are 'escaping' to Thailand/SEA but some of us just enjoy travel.

In my experience, guys -from any country- that were unhappy back home will eventually be equally unhappy in their new surroundings...

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

America is not a country, it's a company; and it's citizens are just staff.

Brilliant. Where's my paycheck then?

Originally Posted by Humbert

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

America is not a country, it's a company; and it's citizens are just staff.

Brilliant. Where's my paycheck then?

Do I look like I work in HR?

Originally Posted by flashbang

I was jokingly suggesting that you should be banned for your constant abuse of the world's greatest language.

French?

Originally Posted by Humbert

In which US state did you attend school?

Not directed at me, I know . . . but Michigan for Elementary School and then Uni in Illinois.
My father was posted there.

Everyone stands and recites the Pledge of Allegiance, with hand on heart and facing the flag.
My father went to the principal and told him that I should be excused as I am not American . . . this was met with incredulity, but was granted, though it was the first time anyone had ever opted out of this.

Having lived in the US several times, worked mainly for US start-ups and MNCs I must admit to liking the place . . . for short times.

Americans' patriotism is not just the flags on every window or yard, every uniform from security guards to bus drivers etc... it reached deeper, as though Fortress America is a reality.

The general level of education isn't that great and xenophobia and jingoism is prevalent at most levels bar the percentage that has worked overseas, as an example.

As Davis already said, the country is huge and very diverse . . . and there is a lot to be proud of . . . though it was the Europeans who built the place - imagine taking Europeans, given them a massive and fertile and rich land . . . easy.

Lots of pros, lots of cons . . . but I do prefer the US mentality in that someone just off the boat, as it were, calls themselves American . . . unlike Australia where people still call themselves Italian, Greek etc... after several generations

Patriotism is an absurdity but if you're going to get all teary-eyed about your country, there's plenty for Americans to feel proud about. That is not to say that there isn't also plenty to feel ashamed about but, on the positive side, amongst other things, it's a very beautiful place, Americans are individually very generous, the idea of America is kind of fantastic, and the country has made an enormous contribution to humanity through the arts and sciences even if, as with every country, those who cry hardest at the national anthem are usually those who are least able to identify exactly what those contributions are.

Originally Posted by OckerRocker

I must admit to liking the place . . . for short times.

I prefer Thailand but to each his own.

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by OckerRocker

I must admit to liking the place . . . for short times.

I prefer Thailand but to each his own.

One does not exclude the other, dear Norton

Originally Posted by OckerRocker

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by OckerRocker

I must admit to liking the place . . . for short times.

I prefer Thailand but to each his own.

One does not exclude the other, dear Norton

I'll gladly give ya a green if ya stand at attention and proudly recite the US national anthem in just 3 notes ...

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

Originally Posted by OckerRocker

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by OckerRocker

I must admit to liking the place . . . for short times.

I prefer Thailand but to each his own.

One does not exclude the other, dear Norton

I'll gladly give ya a green if ya stand at attention and proudly recite the US national anthem in just 3 notes ...

Used to be able to as a child . . . indoctrination is writ large at that age. Well, not in three notes I'd guess

The happiness of a country depends on the wealth of the country.


USA is on the decline, on the happiness ratings.

Were all losing the plot.

Does the patriot become less patriotic when there's not so much money.?

The United States is a nation in decline. Last year the land of the free and the home of the brave came in 10th place in the annual rankings of World’s Happiest Countries. This year the U.S.A. has slipped to 12th.

This marks the first time in the six-year history of the Legatum Institute‘s Prosperity Index that America has not placed in the top 10.

The U.S. has slipped in the areas of Governance, Personal Freedom, and most troubling, in Entrepreneurship & Opportunity. The slide in that final category, according to the report, “is due to a decline in citizens’ perception that working hard gets you ahead.”

Whether you think this is a temporary fluke or a leading indicator of the collapse of a great country depends on what your politics are. (Please leave your comments on that topic below.)

The Legatum Prosperity Index is based on a study of 142 countries comprising 96% of global population. Nations are analyzed and ranked on 89 indicators in 8 categories such as education, government and economics. Per capita GDP — basically how rich a nation is — is a factor in the index, but the whole point of the Legatum study is to look beyond such a simple measure at all the myriad issues that make up wellbeing and prosperity.
In general, the most prosperous (thus “happiest” in my book) countries enjoy stable political institutions, a strong civil society with freedom of expression, good education and healthcare, personal freedom and a feeling of being safe and secure.

Under those measures the U.S. is getting less happy.

U.S. unemployment remains stubbornly high and start-up costs are rising, while high-tech exports are in decline. As Nathan Gamester, project director of the index, explains:

“Even within the realm of economic health, broader measures can illuminate the drivers of change and serve as leading indicators. Take, for example, citizens’ perceptions of job markets. In India and China, the percentages of citizens who think that it is a good time to find a job is 40% and 36%, respectively. In the U.S. and U.K., those percentages are, respectively, 26% and 12%.”

So who are the happiest people in the world, as measured by Legatum? Norway takes the crown, followed by Denmark and Sweden (which leapfrogged Australia and New Zealand this year). Rounding out the Scandinavians is Finland, just a few steps behind in the seventh spot.

Luxembourg is the healthiest nation on Earth. Iceland is the safest. Switzerland has the world’s best economy and governance, according to Legatum.

What’s Norway got that the rest of the world doesn’t? For one thing, a stunning per capita GDP of $57,000 a year. Norwegians have the second-highest level of satisfaction with their standards of living: 95% say they are satisfied with the freedom to choose the direction of their lives; an unparalleled 74% say other people can be trusted. It sure doesn’t hurt that the massive Norwegian welfare state is bankrolled by high taxes and big reserves of offshore oil and gas.

On the other side of the spectrum, the lowest ranking, or saddest country on the Prosperity Index, is the Central African Republic. There the per capita GDP is $790 per year, life expectancy is 48, and just 2% of people have internet access at home. Right behind the CAR at the bottom are Congo, Afghanistan, Zimbabwe and Haiti.

Though the good people at the Legatum Group (founded by New Zealand billionaire Christopher Chandler) are certainly making a good faith effort toward figuring out the key traits of successful societies, there are some areas where their data is unreliable.

Many of the inputs for the Index come from surveys of citizens in the countries. This is problematic because opinion polls are inherently subjective, and because of cultural and educational differences people in different countries may have starkly varying takes on the same circumstance.

For instance, one of the inputs for Legatum’s economic prosperity measure reflects whether citizens of a country “have confidence in financial institutions.” Last year only 48% of Americans reported being confident in financial institutions, versus 61% worldwide. It cannot be the case that America’s banks are less secure than the global average. And it’s silly to rely on subjective opinion for such a thing when there’s plentiful objective data on bank health (see Forbes Rankings of America’s Best and Worst Banks.)

The measurement of “social capital” is problematic as well, as one of the inputs reflects the percentage of citizens who “attended a place of worship” in the past week. I agree that many people glean a lot of social cohesion by going to church, temple or mosque, but there’s also plenty of folks who get the same sense of peace from going to yoga class on the beach or a walk in the woods.

That said, the Legatum survey does a better job of measuring true “happiness” than some of the similar surveys out there.

Full List: The Happiest And Saddest Countries In The World
The Gallup organization did a recent survey seeking to determine which country had the happiest people by going out to 148 countries and asking thousands of people questions such as:

“Did you feel well-rested yesterday? Were you treated with respect all day yesterday? Did you smile or laugh a lot yesterday? Did you learn or do something interesting yesterday?”

I don’t know about you, but that kind of data gathering is way too subjective for me.

According to Gallup’s findings, the happiest people in the world live in Panama and Paraguay, followed by El Salvador and Venezuela, then Trinidad and Tobago, Thailand, Guatemala, the Philippines, Ecuador and Costa Rica.

Of course there’s a lot of cultural bias represented in Gallup’s study. As Thailand is known as “The Land of A Thousand Smiles,” is it really any surprise that the Thais would say they had smiled a lot yesterday?

Among the saddest, according to Gallup’s survey, are the citizens of war-torn regions like Iraq and Afghanistan and Yemen as well as the likes of Lithuania, Belarus, Serbia, Georgia and Armenia.

Could it be that some people are just more prone to be dour? ”Feeling unhappy is part of the national mentality here,” said Agaron Adibekian, an Armenian sociologist interviewed recently by the Associated Press. “Armenians like being mournful; there have been so many upheavals in the nation’s history. The Americans keep their smiles on and avoid sharing their problems with others. And the Armenians feel ashamed about being successful.”

But the most unhappy people according to Gallup’s questionnaire, are the citizens of Singapore.

This is kind of shocking, considering that Singapore ranked 19th overall on Legatum’s index, and 3rd highest on worldwide economic measures. If anyone should be happy it’s Singapore.

And yet Richard Low, a 33-year-old Singaporean businessman told the AP: “We work like dogs and get paid peanuts. There’s hardly any time for holidays or just to relax in general because you’re always thinking ahead: when the next deadline or meeting is. There is hardly a fair sense of work-life balance here.”

So Singaporeans are prosperous but unhappy? Overworked, but comfortable? What would you rather be?

It all makes me think of British philosopher John Stuart Mill, who described the social theory of utilitarianism, which holds that one must always act so as to produce the greatest aggregate happiness for the greatest number of people. Mill recognized however that what constitutes happiness (and its lesser cousin contentment) is completely subjective, and depends on who you ask.

Said Mill: “It is better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied. And if the fool, or the pig, are of a different opinion, it is because they only know their own side of the question.”

The Happiest (And Saddest) Countries In The World - Forbes

Originally Posted by Lancelot

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Originally Posted by Humbert

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

and the fact that percentage-wise few Americans ever leave it

There is an oft repeated myth that percentage wise few Americans hold passports. This is a myth that cannot be substantiated.

Don't believe I ever mentioned passports. My original quote also said "....other than on group tours or the like."

I was not disparaging America or Americans. It has simply been my experience that America is such a vast country, with so much to offer within its borders, that many Americans see no need to leave.

There is also no "gap year" tradition in the US and students usually go straight to work (if they can find a job).

I think its also partially because relatively more Americans are happy/content living in the US. Yeah I meet fellow Americans that don't like it there and are 'escaping' to Thailand/SEA but some of us just enjoy travel.

In my experience, guys -from any country- that were unhappy back home will eventually be equally unhappy in their new surroundings...

Originally Posted by Yasojack

Last year the land of the free and the home of the brave came in 10th place in the annual rankings of World’s Happiest Countries. This year the U.S.A. has slipped to 12th.

Do you really put a lot of stock in these meaningless polls?

You can get a indication of what people think, The US has been through a lot of shit over the last few years.

Originally Posted by Yasojack

You can get a indication of what people think, The US has been through a lot of shit over the last few years.

...and have been putting the world through shit forever.

I watched the decline of the U.S. up close. It doesn't matter which of the two interchangeable parts parties are in the House, Senate or White House, things are going downhill. It's not because of illegal immigrants, minorities, or less religion in the schools or government.

Rights are evaporating, terrorists are an excuse for their demise. Laws, rules and policies are being manipulated to the advantage of small groups of the top 1%

Originally Posted by Your name here

Rights are evaporating, terrorists are an excuse for their demise. Laws, rules and policies are being manipulated to the advantage of small groups of the top 1%

And it will not change as long as the 1% continues to distract the masses. Only when people rise up will change actually take place. One thing that America has is endless potential, far more than most nations on earth however right now it looks like that potential will not be realized except perhaps to further enrich the 1%.

Originally Posted by bsnub

Originally Posted by Your name here

Rights are evaporating, terrorists are an excuse for their demise. Laws, rules and policies are being manipulated to the advantage of small groups of the top 1%

And it will not change as long as the 1% continues to distract the masses. Only when people rise up will change actually take place. One thing that America has is endless potential, far more than most nations on earth however right now it looks like that potential will not be realized except perhaps to further enrich the 1%.

Indeed.
The American masses are quite numb and disconnected.
Not terribly difficult to distract.