How to make ice last longer when packed in a cooler box?

[Loy Toy]

Afternoon all.

I'm working on a new project and one of the components I will be using is ice either frozen into the shape of a block, cubed or crushed.

Part of the success of this project will be how long the ice remains frozen/solid and I have racked my brain trying to think of a new way to increase the effective shelf life of ice by possibly adding a refrigerant fluid or others.

As I believe there are a number of intelligent members here I wonder if any of you lot have any experience handling ice?

Thanks in advance for your kind suggestions and advice.

[Fondles]

Salt slows down the melting process.

[The Fresh Prince]

Or use dry ice that's been vacuum packed like the stuff that ice cream gets delivered with to keep it frozen.

[Mid]

insulation .

cooler boxes ain't cooler boxes Sol .

[Loy Toy]

^ & ^^ Thanks fellas.

Salt slows down the melting process.

I thought that they sprinkled salt on ice/ impacted snow to hasten the melting of it.

Or use dry ice that's been vacuum packed like the stuff that ice cream gets delivered with to keep it frozen.

I have considered dry ice but would prefer to use a food grade compliant mixture.

I have considered mixing glycerin with water and although the freeze point temperature will rise to about 122 degrees celcius that should mean it will take longer to melt.

[aging one]

I have considered mixing glycerin with water and although the freeze point temperature will rise to about 122 degrees celcius that should mean it will take longer to melt.

Minus 122 right? In the old days in the states campers would buy block ice for long term storage, and cubed for fast cooling and drinking. What about a bigger cube, with something added? This cooler would be for food products only nothing for drinking or the such. You could simply ziplock the fruits and veggies or sandwiches. But for really cooling drinks let me put on thinking cap on mate. I am looking forward to some of your get up and to at the meet up in December.

[withnallstoke]

As I believe there are a number of intelligent members here I wonder if any of you lot have any experience handling ice?

Ice is for pooftas innit.

[Ratchaburi]

Salt slows down the melting process.

I have seen them use salt add to crushed ice, when they are making popcycles, in a stailess steel drum.

[Loy Toy]

This cooler would be for food products only nothing for drinking or the such.

Both mate and it will have an air cooling unit on it.



And for more important produce.

[slackula]

If making a block then bubbling air through the water (like with an aquarium pump) while it is freezing will make the block less likely to crack which exposes more of the surface area to the air around it and increases the melting speed.

I thought that they sprinkled salt on ice/ impacted snow to hasten the melting of it.

Not exactly, it lowers the freezing point of the water it is put on, so as long as the temp remains above the new freezing point it'll slowly melt.

[aging one]

^^Wow, so the insulation must be killer, I can see blocks of ice the size of the lower compartment and then just as above for the drinks. Put me up for one of the first. My old igloo cooler is too small.

[Loy Toy]

Ice is for pooftas innit.

Not if you like cold beer mate.

But you Northerners like warm beer innit?

[Loy Toy]

Put me up for one of the first.

I'll give you one for Chrissy mate.

[VocalNeal]

I think there maybe a physics problem here.

If the container is very well insulated the ice only melts as it extracts heat from whatever is in the cooler. So if the ice melts slower it is not extracting as much heat.

If the cooler is only partially insulated and you wish to keep the ice solid at the expense of the loss of cooling efficiency you would use Pykrete. It is 14% sawdust and 86% water. It thaws VERY slowly.

[Loy Toy]

I have seen them use salt add to crushed ice, when they are making popcycles, in a stailess steel drum.

Yes, so have I but does that not make a more sludgy ice mix?

[Loy Toy]

If the cooler is only partially insulated and you wish to keep the ice solid at the expense of the loss of cooling efficiency you would use Pykrete. It is 14% sawdust and 86% water. It thaws VERY slowly.

As you see by the pictures above the basic concept of this cooler is product visual presentation on ice and that alone compromises the insulation properties of the unit.

Your suggestion (pykrete) is a very good one and I will do some testing tomorrow.

Thanks for that mate.

[nidhogg]

Afternoon all.

I'm working on a new project and one of the components I will be using is ice either frozen into the shape of a block, cubed or crushed.

.

Given a constant ambient temperature, the melting of ice will be determined by the surface area of the ice. One slab or block will melt slower than cubes which in turn will melt slower than crushed ice.

[Loy Toy]

Given a constant ambient temperature, the melting of ice will be determined by the surface area of the ice. One slab or block will melt slower than cubes which in turn will melt slower than crushed ice.

As I mentioned in my OP, the pre-cast slab of ice is probably the best option particularly if the water is mixed with a refrigerant fluid and if I blow air across the top of that slab it does create an air conditioning effect within the unit and as proven when I tested the prototype at home.

One thing I have noted, when I time the melt period in an air conditioned environment the ice melts far slower and that is what I am attempting to achieve within the unit.

[Fondles]

your pic with the girly drinks has the bottles sitting in ice, you cannot do this if you add poison to the ice to help decrease the melt rate.

Have a play with salt, we could keep fish and prawns cold for days using this solution.

[nidhogg]

Given a constant ambient temperature, the melting of ice will be determined by the surface area of the ice. One slab or block will melt slower than cubes which in turn will melt slower than crushed ice.

As I mentioned in my OP, the pre-cast slab of ice is probably the best option particularly if the water is mixed with a refrigerant fluid and if I blow air across the top of that slab it does create an air conditioning effect within the unit and as proven when I tested the prototype at home.

One thing I have noted, when I time the melt period in an air conditioned environment the ice melts far slower and that is what I am attempting to achieve within the unit.

the toehr thing you might like to look around at are premade ice packs - they often come with stuff in them to slow down the melt. No muss no fuss, and we ship all our stuff with those (rather than ice).



Anotehr way (as you are a plastics guy) wouold be to make something like this as an integral part of the design (can be watter filled each time and frzen pre-use






As has been noted earlier, you are up against two things- slowing the melting, but keeping the cooling. i.e. you could slow the melting down through insulation - but then you get no cooling!

[Loy Toy]

your pic with the girly drinks has the bottles sitting in ice

Is the pic more suitable mate?

[draco888]

it would help to know the exact purpose of the unit. Is the ice primarily for cooling or for presentation or vice versa? is it for personal use or for retailers? if you intend to have an electricity source nearby you may as well sit the whole thing on some sort of refrigeration unit and the ice will never melt. without knowing its intended use and placement.....

[Marmite the Dog]

I'd go with ice cubes on top of a layer of the ice packs. You could even get the ice packs made to measure (probably).

[Loy Toy]

the toehr thing you might like to look around at are premade ice packs

I am actually working on this concept but as people want to buy the unit as it is now I have to come up with a short term solution hence this thread.

you cannot do this if you add poison to the ice to help decrease the melt rate.

Glycerin is a safe food grade product and if I do use a non FDA approved solution it will be positioned underneath the rack and away from the product.

With regards to the addition of salt that will be on the drawing board tomorrow.

Thanks for your advice.

[Fondles]

Much better My Toy, it's got a bottle of Chang in it !!