Thread: Today's Rugby

^ Good riddance to the arrogant SOB. He rarely played well for the Wallabies in fact he choked especially when playing premier sides such as the All Blacks.

Bets are he will now join Sonny Bill Williams in Japan.

Originally Posted by Necron99

If that was us there would be rioting in the streets and people burning jerseys.

England could do with a purple bonfire.

^^ It's pretty easy to mistake being thick as a brick for arrogance, but for all that he had/has a rare talent.
He was largely responsible the the Reds success both on the field and in the packed stands. As for chocking, I stand to be corrected but the only recent successes against the All Cheats have been when he did play, without, we have been soundly trounced.
If he has gone, it's both a waste and a massive failure of management. Those guys getting a million bucks a year are supposed to be able to handle talented dickheads for our betterment.

Originally Posted by chassamui

Originally Posted by Necron99

If that was us there would be rioting in the streets and people burning jerseys.

England could do with a purple bonfire.

Bonfire of the Barnies?

^^ There is no doubt he is a talented, even gifted player but I cannot remember one game against a powerful international side where he didn't get in everyone's way, or more to the point nobody else knew what he was doing.

The Reds side was a very good team across the board especially with Will Genia at scrum half.

Unfortunately he leaves me with absolutely no fond memories and I regret I have to post that remark as it could have been so different if he would have pulled his head in and supported his fellow teammates.

Originally Posted by Necron99

News (channel 9 ) reporting that Cooper has quit rugby after being offered only match payments from the ARU.
no official statement from either yet.
Sad day for the Red and the Wallabies if true.

Just read that myself. It would be a shame.

I just watched that show 'The Code' where they had an interview with him. He came across completely different from what I had expected. Very intelligent and thoughtful actually.

Must have been the "toxic environment". Certainly not the fault of the laptop lifter, eh?

Always someone else to blame with non tackling prima donnas like Cheap Shot Cooper.

Fuck him, Good riddance.......

Cooper was good for a while, but the opposition soon enough got the measure of him. With (a mitigating factor) very little depth in playmakers to choose from, Robbie Deans placed a big bet on him in last years world cup- and it was an utter disaster. Since then, all he has done is whinge. Good riddance. He'll do fine playing in Japan, or France, or wherever else SH players go to make gold when they are put out to pasture. Some talk of him joining League, but I doubt that will work out. He just isn't physical enough.

Pre-requisite in League - to be able to tackle.

Wallabies game plan for Cooper - stick him out the way and use the full back to cover the fly half channel, else he does his impression of an overworked turnstile.

Not sure I can see him going to Japan as the season is well underway there, depends on their rules. After that Money-Bill will be at the Roosters early next year.

Well I finally got a chance to watch the Italy vs. All Blacks match last night.

Odd sort of a game, was impressed with Italy's willingness and ambition though. I was also glad to see that Castrogiovanni was dealt to - despite the big wraps on him I think he's greatly overrated, bit of a cheat too.

What I was most interested in though was watching Read and Parisse on the same field. To my mind the two best No.8's in the game today. Parisse is superbly gifted and skilled, tremendous athlete, but I think that Read's ultimately the better player.

Parrise is tainted by being a dirty bastard though.......

Personally I'd put Fernadez Lobbe above him......

I'm reserving judgement on Lobbe for now. He looks the goods but I've really only seen bits 'n pieces of him during the World Cup, and only more consistently during the Championship this year.

Originally Posted by Bobcock

Not sure I can see him going to Japan as the season is well underway there, depends on their rules. After that Money-Bill will be at the Roosters early next year.

but isn't he contracted to Reds for 3 years? this latest flare up over his ARU contract only, or are they linked

don't think he couald go to Japan anyway in short term, he is still injured. Who would hire him before he's proved match fitenss/over injuries?

Had one good season with Reds, but can't think of any international against quality opposition where he relaly 'starred'. At test level think hes had more stinkers than good ones

Originally Posted by trabant

but isn't he contracted to Reds for 3 years? this latest flare up over his ARU contract only, or are they linked

From what I understand they're linked somehow, some sort of tripartite deal: the contract with the Super team needs to be ratified by the ARU.

That's the gist of it, if you want to play for a super xv team you must also sign an ARU contract and be available for Wallaby duty.
The way Quade plays requires the centres and wingers to be totally on song with how he plays else he ends up throwing passes to no one. It makes him look bad, but in reality its the lack of established pairings that's the problem. That's why he plays so much better for the reds than he does in internationals. If it wasn't that for some strange reason the core of the Wallabies has been made up of Tahs, things would be different.

This talk of contracts got me thinking about the new franchise licencee model that the NZRU's rolled out for the Super rugby teams. I was just thinking that I'd like to know more about it when I stumbled across the following article - might as well post it here:

Sam Richardson: Winners and losers of Super cash

Reins must be loosened in licensing deal to sweeten it for parties other than the well-positioned NZRU.

Players will be missing out under the new arrangement. Photo / Greg Bowker
As a sports economist, the announcement that the Hurricanes and Crusaders Super rugby franchises will have new operators next year raises a few questions in my mind.

The New Zealand Rugby Union says the arrangements, which involve groups of provincial unions and private investors (including Gareth Morgan in the case of the Hurricanes), are a step forward in terms of putting Super rugby on a stronger financial footing. But will they benefit all the partners in the Super rugby relationship?

There is no question that the NZRU is a clear winner in this process. They get injections of private funds into the Super franchises, which are expensive to run and have been a drain on the union's coffers. They retain full ownership of the franchises, the contracting process and coaching appointments. And they receive all the broadcast revenues that accrue to each nation from the Super competition, which are used to pay the players.

In short, the NZRU retains control of which players can play in Super rugby, what teams they play for and who coaches them. It is a very favourable set-up to the governing body, no question.

Investors can do what they like once they get their player list, but a large portion of ownership responsibility is in fact taken away from them. It is a very different ownership structure from, say, American, Australian or European sports leagues. At least in the A-League, the Wellington Phoenix can employ whoever they want and sign up any player they want.

The other thing that the licensee model does for the NZRU is to allow it to wash its hands of the micro-level management that is often difficult when trying to run the game from a central level. The day-to-day running of a franchise is best done on the ground, and the rationale is that private investors will do the job of running the franchise more efficiently than the NZRU or a provincial-based board could. After all, there might even be some money in it for licensees if they do it well enough.

Licensees can market their teams, keep gate revenues (while presumably paying stadium rentals) and generate deals for sponsorship, including a sponsor's logo on the front of the jersey. Gareth Morgan has talked about player academies as a source of opportunity for licensees.

But what incentives do the licensees have to run a development squad when they run the very real risk of losing those players if the NZRU decides to add them to the contracted players pool? There would have to be some arrangement in place for teams to be able to have first rights to developed talent should they make the grade. Otherwise, player development is a very risky prospect.

The big question for me is how long licence holders will be happy to simply receive players rather than selecting their own. I see it like this: You invest in a business, but you have to use a specific consultant as a condition of the investment. How do you feel, then, when you find out that the consultant has the same relationship with all of your competitors?

In my view, however, the biggest losers in the new ownership structure are the players - at least in terms of the possible alternatives. For them, nothing changes. They are presently contracted by the NZRU, and they will still be contracted by the NZRU under licence arrangements.

If the licensees were able to pay for players, well, the ball park would be very different. Imagine free agency. Or imagine a structure by which players could be paid a central contract by the NZRU, but franchises who really wanted them could pay extra to get them.

Free agency has its critics, but it has fundamentally changed the landscape of sports that have adopted it. Licensees would have a greater incentive under free agency to identify and develop talent. Giving licensees the power to pay players would quite likely make players winners in this deal. As it is, that's one of the least likely things to happen.

Overall, the new licensing arrangements are a first step to many possibilities. Exciting ones, too, if done right. There just has to be a little more loosening of the reins.

Sam Richardson: Winners and losers of Super cash - Sport - NZ Herald News

Originally Posted by Bobcock

As it happens Sam's form isn't at the highest level at the moment, as it isn't throuhout the squad. The way the players have performed at domestic level so far this year these results are really not that big a suprise. They will lose all 4 of these games, being deprived of Gatland hasn't helped. What the fuck have the Lions got him doing????.... Booking hotels????

He's been crook Bobby.

Rugby | Warren Gatland Learning to Walk Again | Stuff.co.nz

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

Originally Posted by Bobcock

As it happens Sam's form isn't at the highest level at the moment, as it isn't throuhout the squad. The way the players have performed at domestic level so far this year these results are really not that big a suprise. They will lose all 4 of these games, being deprived of Gatland hasn't helped. What the fuck have the Lions got him doing????.... Booking hotels????

He's been crook Bobby.

Rugby | Warren Gatland Learning to Walk Again | Stuff.co.nz

No, that is not the reason. It was part of the deal that the Lions coach cannot coach anyone for a year prior to the tour. That he was injured ha nothing to do with why he is not coaching now. He will not coach us in the Six Nations.

The Lions have allowed him to be part of the next 2 games because it suits them for him to prepare us against Australia.

he has been quiet - maybe correct headline :

Warren Gatland Learning to Talk Again

I look forward to this game.

got this off Planet Rugby

There may be up to six players in the NZ 23 this weekend who were in the 'very close some might say lucky' win over Wales 26-25 in Nov 2004.

Piri Weepu made his debut that day, also a bunch of newish players in the early days of their test careers - Ali Williams, Keven Mealamu, Dan Carter, Richie McCaw, Tony Woodcock and Ma'a Nonu on the bench. ... highlights how important a 'core' of players has been

For Wales, Gethin Jenkins, Adam Jones, Ryan Jones (a sub). There were six Jones men playing that day.

that is the secret. the Jones factor

Originally Posted by Bobcock

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

Originally Posted by Bobcock

As it happens Sam's form isn't at the highest level at the moment, as it isn't throuhout the squad. The way the players have performed at domestic level so far this year these results are really not that big a suprise. They will lose all 4 of these games, being deprived of Gatland hasn't helped. What the fuck have the Lions got him doing????.... Booking hotels????

He's been crook Bobby.

Rugby | Warren Gatland Learning to Walk Again | Stuff.co.nz

No, that is not the reason. It was part of the deal that the Lions coach cannot coach anyone for a year prior to the tour. That he was injured ha nothing to do with why he is not coaching now. He will not coach us in the Six Nations.

The Lions have allowed him to be part of the next 2 games because it suits them for him to prepare us against Australia.

I'd imagine he has been spending a good deal of time assessing/selecting players. Ditto during the Six Nations. Hard to do on top of normal coaching duties.

Originally Posted by trabant

he has been quiet - maybe correct headline :

Warren Gatland Learning to Talk Again

I look forward to this game.

got this off Planet Rugby

There may be up to six players in the NZ 23 this weekend who were in the 'very close some might say lucky' win over Wales 26-25 in Nov 2004.

Piri Weepu made his debut that day, also a bunch of newish players in the early days of their test careers - Ali Williams, Keven Mealamu, Dan Carter, Richie McCaw, Tony Woodcock and Ma'a Nonu on the bench. ... highlights how important a 'core' of players has been

For Wales, Gethin Jenkins, Adam Jones, Ryan Jones (a sub). There were six Jones men playing that day.

that is the secret. the Jones factor

I was at that game, I took 18 months out from Thailand.... we won a Grand Slam too....

I would never have described that game as a lucky win but I know what they are referring to.

We hit the post with a penalty, and at the end of the game we had a penalty which wellies kicked close to New Zealands 22.The ref blew for time when wales thought that there was still time left.

They had changed the game clock from elapsed time to real time since the game the week before against SA (Where we also narrowly lost, having scored late points after SA took their foot off the gas becasue they thought the clock was on real time not elapsed time....). Wales were unaware of this fact.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

I'd imagine he has been spending a good deal of time assessing/selecting players. Ditto during the Six Nations. Hard to do on top of normal coaching duties.

Fuck off with yer common sense attitude....

Originally Posted by Bobcock

Fuck off with yer common sense attitude....

Oh, sorry... *Warble*, that better?

Here's a question for you... Lions flyhalf, who is it going to be do you think? I'm looking at the current crop and nobody seems to be screaming out for selection yet. Actually Toby Flood's looked the most likely candidate to me so far, which kinda reinforces my point.

^^
didn't know re timer. a close one

full NZ team that day a lot of them were young in rugby terms, many of them are still playing, apart from the six still ABs others are in Europe/Uk and Japan.

Mils Muliaina, Doug Howlett, Casey Laulala, Aaron Mauger, Joe Rokocoko, Dan Carter, Piri Weepu, Tony Woodcock, Keven Mealamu, Greg Somerville, Chris Jack, Ali Williams, Rodney So'oialo, Richie McCaw (c), Mose Tuiali'i
Replacements Anton Oliver, Carl Hayman, Reuben Thorne, Marty Holah, Byron Kelleher, Ma'a Nonu, Rico Gear


Lions flyhalf

Bring back O'gara

Sexton, Biggar?