Thread: The politics behind Thailand's floods

^^ & ^^^ & ^^^^ & ^^^^^ & ^^^^^^

End of discussion.

I have made my point, and the replies have reinforced that point.

Next?

An interesting scene unfolding on TV (AsiaUpdate)

Yingluck and .........................are appearing at an event.

A reporter asked a bystander, why she was there.

The reply, "To see Yingluck"

The reporter, "do you know who else is here?"

Answer, "No"

And the media keeps up a barrage of wishful thinking reported as fact, using the crisis to try and demonize Ms. Y.

The above vignette shows how succesful they are being.......NOT!

Bangkok Post : Yongyuth praises Abhisit

Yongyuth praises Abhisit

• Published: 11/11/2011 at 11:09 AM
• Online news:

Deputy Prime Minister and Interior Minister Yongyuth Wichaidit praised Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva for coordinating with the government in getting help to people in flooded areas.

"Mr Abhisit is a good man because he doesn't just think he's from the opposition party. When he saw problems, he would immediately call me to deliver assistance to flood-hit people.

"This is a good sign because when we're in hard times we should not hurt or criticise one another," Mr Yongyuth said on Friday.

The Pheu Thai leader said he believed the House meeting today would discuss ways to mitigate the flood situation.

"The flood situation is improving, despite the high tides yesterday," he added.

Originally Posted by Calgary

^^ & ^^^ & ^^^^ & ^^^^^ & ^^^^^^

End of discussion.

I have made my point, and the replies have reinforced that point.

Next?

Does this mean you will stop posting now and rest your case???

Originally Posted by Calgary

^^ & ^^^ & ^^^^ & ^^^^^ & ^^^^^^

End of discussion.

I have made my point, and the replies have reinforced that point.

Next?

Where was your point? You haven't succeeded in making any points.

Okay...lets try to put this really simply for you....

People vote for government.

Government elected.

Government screws up.

Electorate unhappy.

Got it?

And I don't know which universe you inhabit, but a lot of people I know, many of which voted for Pheu Thai, are very very unhappy with this government and the mixed messages, inaccurate information and total incompetency displayed by Pheu Thai during this flood crisis. Like really pissed off.

Spin it any way you like (and wow, you have tried over and over again), but that is the reality on the ground.

People also concocted stories, such as a "water coup", which are proving to be total crap. But you have nothing to say on that.

What kind of a person has such a myopic view of proceedings...? What kind of person fails to criticise the bad? In fact totally ignores the bad?

In fact, not only ignores the bad, but manages to produce stories where one person came to see Yingluck....one person in 68 million. And that proves what?

I respect you for your volunteer work (if it is true.....) but really, something is seriously wrong with someone who totally ignores reality and tries to invent another one that is patently untrue.

Calgary's drone, reminds me of from the UK comedy series 'little britain', who's constant protestations of being the only gay in the village reminds me of calgary's constant protestations that he's the only foreigner who hasn't been turned in to a mindless automaton by pad propaganda.

Anyone else see the similarities?

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Okay...lets try to put this really simply for you....

People vote for government.

Government elected.

Government screws up.

Electorate unhappy.

Got it?

Your knowledge of political science rivals your psychological insight. You really should stick to posting other people's work.

Originally Posted by robuzo

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Okay...lets try to put this really simply for you....

People vote for government.

Government elected.

Government screws up.

Electorate unhappy.

Got it?

Your knowledge of political science rivals your psychological insight. You really should stick to posting other people's work.

This from a man who just sent me a threatening PM, threatening me with violence, after a red you also gave me, and I dared to point out you were wrong in giving me a red....

You are a very nasty piece of work Rob. As your personal message proves.

Originally Posted by Calgary

produce stories where one person came to see Yingluck....one person in 68 million. And that proves what?

It proves about the same as fatuous anecdotes like:

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

a lot of people I know, many of which voted for Pheu Thai, are very very unhappy with this government

If you look at question 4 of the Bangkok University Poll, you'll see that in answer to the question about confidence in this government's ability to help those suffering from the floods (ความเชื่อมั่นต่อรัฐบาล ในการช่วยเหลือเยียวยาผู้ประสบภัยหลังน้ำท่วม), 15.4% were very confident, 40.4% were confident, 30.9% were not confident and 13.3% were not at all confident.

The electorate is not a single entity so making infantile pronouncements like "Electorate unhappy" is stupid enough but when you've already got figures to show that it's not even a vague approximation of the truth, it's utter idiocy, something which you only make worse by ending this rubbish with 'Got it?' or (cringe) 'End of.'

calgary's constant protestations that he's the only foreigner who hasn't been turned in to a mindless automaton by pad propaganda.

He's hasn't claimed that he's the only one. He's right, though, that it's depressingly common.

Originally Posted by Dan

Originally Posted by Calgary

produce stories where one person came to see Yingluck....one person in 68 million. And that proves what?

It proves about the same as fatuous anecdotes like:

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

a lot of people I know, many of which voted for Pheu Thai, are very very unhappy with this government

If you look at question 4 of the Bangkok University Poll, you'll see that in answer to the question about confidence in this government's ability to help those suffering from the floods (ความเชื่อมั่นต่อรัฐบาล ในการช่วยเหลือเยียวยาผู้ประสบภัยหลังน้ำท่วม), 15.4% were very confident, 40.4% were confident, 30.9% were not confident and 13.3% were not at all confident.

The electorate is not a single entity so making infantile pronouncements like "Electorate unhappy" is stupid enough but when you've already got figures to show that it's not even a vague approximation of the truth, it's utter idiocy, something which you only make worse by ending this rubbish with 'Got it?' or (cringe) 'End of.'

Electorate is not a precise term, it simply means people who can vote, so what i said was in fact true. People i know, who are the electorate, are not happy with this government. That is a fact.

Unfortunately being surrounded by a metre of water means I am unable to go out and question millions of people.

However, it is funny that you choose to attack me for daring to mention that some of the electorate (as in the ones I know) aren't happy with this government, previous Pheu Thai voters too, but fail to attack Calgary for his anecdote on meeting one person who went to see Yingluck. His 'evidence' that some still have faith...

Oh, but it is all so personal with you isn't it....your party is under attack....must defend, must defend....Your party, a foreigner living in Thailand....who can't vote and who has absolutely no say in what goes on here whatsoever....but you must defend them.

And you accuse me of idiocy....



Got it?

Originally Posted by Calgary

Originally Posted by Dan

calgary's constant protestations that he's the only foreigner who hasn't been turned in to a mindless automaton by pad propaganda.

He's hasn't claimed that he's the only one. He's right, though, that it's depressingly common.

To eccentuate Dan's observation, I was extremely careful not to suggest this.

There are some exceedingly insightful Farangs on this Board, from whom I have learned.

I have marvelled at how they were able to acquire this insight.

If I had not been immersed in this Red Shirt Movement and its' leadership to the degree I have been, I may have been no different than the BKK. Post/Nation indoctrinated ones.

I am impressed with how they were able to see through all the Media folderol, and wonder why that is, when most other farangs are indoctrinated.

What makes them different? How come some cannot be propagandized.

I really wish these insightful Farangs were able to access that other Board without being eliminated.

I hate to see my fellow Farangs manipulated like that over there, by being allowed to see one POV only.

Instead, you have been indoctrinated by surrounding yourself with people who all agree with you....and who all share your views....and who all drink the same Kool-aid. And who all have one point of view only.........

Hmmmm

But you fail to understand that.

And anyone who dares to challenge your opinions is labelled as some PAD sympathiser....and ignored.....very democratic of you.....

Yes, well done....

You do understand that democracy only functions with freedom of opinion and expression, right? And part of this is listening to others points of view and getting involved in discussion, so a consensus can be reached. It isn't "my way or the highway", as seems to be your way of operating....

You do understand how democracy works, right?

At best we can only speculate on how and why Thais conduct themselves in situations - so much is behind closed doors. I doubt we will ever get a definitive answer to who was responsible for the current chaos.

Still, if I built my house or factory along a fault line, I would expect it to be raised sooner or later. Given the geogrqphy and topography of Thailand, I would expect that building capitals, housing and industrial estates where deluges from the monsoon season and run-offs fron the North regularly swamp the landscape, I would. also,expect to have to swim for it, sooner or later. One can forgive the japanese as their educational systems are designed to teach them not to think but to blindly obey...
This is not rocket science! There might well be a reason why people list the three golden rules when considering building or purchasing property 'location, location, location'!

Electorate is not a precise term, it simply means people who can vote, so what i said was in fact true. People i know, who are the electorate, are not happy with this government. That is a fact.

The statement 'To the best of our knowledge, a minority of the electorate are unhappy' and 'The electorate are unhappy' are in no way equivalent and the former does not imply the latter. That's a fact.

Unfortunately being surrounded by a metre of water means I am unable to go out and question millions of people.

Luckily, there are already poll results which have now been posted several times on this thread.

However, it is funny that you choose to attack me for daring to mention that some of the electorate (as in the ones I know) aren't happy with this government,

That's neither what I 'attacked' you for nor what you said. I 'attacked' you for committing exactly the same fallacious reasoning you (rightly) accused Calgary of. That's why I said "proves about the same". That's not hard to understand is it? And your words were 'Electorate unhappy', not 'some of the electorate aren't happy'.

your party is under attack....must defend, must defend....Your party, a foreigner living in Thailand....who can't vote and who has absolutely no say in what goes on here whatsoever....but you must defend them.

It's not my party and I'm not defending them. I'm pointing out facts, such as those which have a bearing on whether or not it makes any sense to say things like "Electorate unhappy".

Originally Posted by Calgary

An interesting scene unfolding on TV (AsiaUpdate)

Yingluck and .........................are appearing at an event.

A reporter asked a bystander, why she was there.

The reply, "To see Yingluck"

The reporter, "do you know who else is here?"

Answer, "No"

And the media keeps up a barrage of wishful thinking reported as fact, using the crisis to try and demonize Ms. Y.

The above vignette shows how succesful they are being.......NOT!

Awright, I admit it.

One person does not prove the Media has been unsuccesful in propagandizing an entire electorate.

Based on the social circles I am in, primarily Red Shirts, I can state unequivocally, that the Media has not 'turned' those people either.

Everything I see and read from them suggests the opposite.

They see themselves as protectors of both Ms. Y and her Govt, and no amount of Media machinations to foist crisis victimization onto Ms. Y and her Govt. is working.

If anything, they have had the opposite effect.

For these people whose majority elected her, they perceive the Media attacks disguised as journalistic criticism, as attacks on them.

And as I mentioned in a previous Post, it is not healthy for the Amart and their compliant media to piss off an electoral majority.

Originally Posted by Calgary

Those of us who have excellent access to Red Shirt Democracy Movement sources, are the only ones who have balanced political input.

If you posted these sources on to the forum, you could then stop complaining about the one-sidedness of the news posted on this forum, couldn't you. It its in thai and you are up to reading it.... you should be upto translating it too.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

[... that was the whole point of the coup for Fs sake; stop political independence from the patriarc system...

...

You have amazingly enough (well maybe not ) managed to turn this completely around so that you are now saying the 2006 coup was about protecting the provincial godfathers against a movement (presumably headed by Thaksin) that was independent of them.

You really need to refresh yourself on who was actually part of the TRT. Here might be a good starting point. Thai Rak Thai Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
TH

Originally Posted by Thaihome

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

[... that was the whole point of the coup for Fs sake; stop political independence from the patriarc system...

...

You have amazingly enough (well maybe not ) managed to turn this completely around so that you are now saying the 2006 coup was about protecting the provincial godfathers against a movement (presumably headed by Thaksin) that was independent of them.

You really need to refresh yourself on who was actually part of the TRT. Here might be a good starting point. Thai Rak Thai Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
TH

Burying discussion about the cause and effect of 2006 coup in whatever silver lining one can think of, simply muddies realities described in a BB quote from another thread below:

The media is largely polticised and is a tool for certain individuals to spread propaganda on a massive basis; much of it owned by the army and patriarcs who commit coups whenever they feel like it; using these media outlets to build fears which are then used to justify coups...

Today, history is attempting to repeat itself as described in this quote.

Do you see the stark similarities with this media using attacks disguised as journalistic criticism, and trying to foist this crisis victimization as a victimization resulting from Ms. Y and her Govt. instead?

But things are different today from 2006, when no Red Shirt Democracy Movement existed.

Are they different enough?

We will see.