Thread: Smoke (and mirrors) behind Bangkok fires

Well, in the country where nobody was killed at the Thammasat massacre and the Army killed nobody in the Red shirts massacre, I remain open minded.

^ Open-minded I agree with and I would not be surprised in the slightest to discover that the army were involved at some point in the Central World arson. However, at this juncture, with a large amount of evidence pointing to the red shirts being involved in the arson, and with little to suggest otherwise, this one is looking (at this time) fairly sure.

As regards the killing of protesters, just as I know the red shirts committed arson all around the area in which I lived, I also know the army shot people, as I saw both with my own eyes. Nothing is going to change that.

Guard in arson case 'signed police statement without reading it'

Guard in arson case 'signed police statement without reading it'

By Pravit Rojanaphruk
The Nation
Published on August 31, 2011

A former security guard who testified to the Criminal Court on the May 19, 2010 arson and death case at CentralWorld told judges yesterday that he had put his signature approving the police statement charging the two defendants without reading the document.

Aekarak Pitchoem, then a security guard at G4S security firm, who was stationed at CentralWorld at the time of the military crackdown on red shirts on May 19, 2010 and the consequent blaze also said that he had not seen the faces of any of the intruders except the nine people later arrested by police. One of the nine arrested is co-defendant Pinij Jannarong. According to Aekarak, a witness for the prosecutors, Pinij was arrested for looting and not arson.

The guard also said that on that day he saw a man throwing a bomb into Kwanpen luxury handbag shop but was not able to see the face or identity of the person. The two defendants face a maximum death penalty as a dead body was found at CentralWorld following the fire.

Pinij and co-defendant Saichon Paebua were visited by a representative of the red-shirt Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) movement yesterday during court recess and asked what the movement could do for the two who have been jailed without bail for more than a year. Besides requests for financial assistance made by the two, Pinij added: "I want the [red-shirt] leaders to come and visit us."

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

for the two who have been jailed without bail for more than a year.

Jailed that long without a trail is a crime in itself. Whoever ordered/approved (judge/police/politician) this imprisonment should be jailed for the same or more amount of time.

Originally Posted by DroversDog

Jailed that long without a trial is a crime in itself. Whoever ordered/approved (judge/police/politician) this imprisonment should be jailed for the same or more amount of time.

Agreed but TIT and without doubt they were politically motivated jailing's why else would a guarantee be denied?

The moral of the story is when in power...abuse the privilege especially if you believe you can make political capital from that abuse of power not to mention future career enhancements.

One thing's for sure the string pulling by the amart and their cronies united has stopped and lets hope it's time for some chickens to come home to roost, only time will tell!

TAN_Network TAN News Network

Criminal Court hands down 6-month jail term for 6 red-shirts implicated in torching, looting of Central World; another gets 3 yr, 6 month term

Originally Posted by sabang

Well, in the country where nobody was killed at the Thammasat massacre and the Army killed nobody in the Red shirts massacre, I remain open minded.

In a country where history and recent history tends to be manipulated, controlled, and less-engaged.

More on the above...

Bangkok Post : Reds get 6 months in CentralWorld fire

Reds get 6 months in CentralWorld fire

• Published: 1/12/2011 at 12:24 PM
• Online news:

Seven red-shirts who took part in the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship protest were each sentenced to six months in jail for violating the emergency decree in connection with the torching of CentralWorld shopping complex on May 19 last year.

One of them was additionally sentenced to three years imprisonment for theft.

The seven, led by Pinij Channarong, were arrested by police on May 19 last year after CentralWorld complex was set on fire and widespread looting and chaos followed.

They were charged with armed robbery, obstructing authorities in the performance of their duty, and violating the executive decree for administration in the emergency situation of 2005.

They confessed to violating the emergency decree but denied the other charges.

The court found that the seven were arrested during a state of confusion and there was no evidence to back the charges of armed robbery and obstructing authorities performing their duty.

Only Komsan Sudchanham, the third defendant, was arrested by the store's security guards with a battery and a mobile phone he had stolen from a shop during the looting.

Police had no evidence to confirm that the seven had anything to do with the 100 rounds of M60 ammunition found in the complex.

The court sentenced the seven to six months each in jail for violating the emergency decree. The other charges against them were dropped.

Komsan, the third defendant, was additionally handed down a three year jail term for theft.

^

Originally Posted by The Nation

Because all seven have been held in custody since last May, six have already served beyond the penalty and will be entitled to immediate release.

Held without bail for 18 months - a year longer than their 6-month sentences.....

^Its outrageous, but it seems the reality of the thai justice system in general, especially if you don't plead guilty. From what have seen they allocate a lot more court time to cases with a guilty plea .

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

^
So the TAN story is more deliberate BS. As the BP story above makes much clearer, they were not convicted of 'torching' the place. Nor were they the ones who'd left 100 rounds of M60 amunition (that's large calibre by the way - the type used by snipers I believe. A police revolver is 38, a glock with clip in the handle is 40).

So then who torched Central World again? I think we know - and it was an explosion that brought down the middle of Zen. The photos from the time show that clearly. But the media have pointedly refused to comment on that.

The police also apparently used M60's during May 2010, around the Ratchaprarop area....the locals attacked them for it. I took some photos and recounted the event here before.

You can work the rest out for yourself. Or maybe you can't....

I've never heard of there being an "explosion" at Zen. I also don't recall seeing any photos of this or accounts of it from the journalists filming there at the time. Could you please provide a link or 2, as I appear to have missed these rather important incidents and they would change my opinion of events that day. Thanks Tom.

Marvellous how all the reds are getting summary "justice" in the courts.

No sign of any PAD yellow nutter convictions for real crimes.

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

^
So the TAN story is more deliberate BS. As the BP story above makes much clearer, they were not convicted of 'torching' the place. Nor were they the ones who'd left 100 rounds of M60 amunition (that's large calibre by the way - the type used by snipers I believe. A police revolver is 38, a glock with clip in the handle is 40).

So then who torched Central World again? I think we know - and it was an explosion that brought down the middle of Zen. The photos from the time show that clearly. But the media have pointedly refused to comment on that.

The "M60 amunition " is refering to ammunition for the M60 grenade launcher not the 7.62mm round fired by the M60 machine gun. I have seen no reports of an M60 machine gun being used.
There is plenty of evidence the M60 launcher was used by the armed elements of the UDD. Here is the result of one such attack in Lumpini Park on May 19th:


I to would be interested to see evidence of an explosion causing the Zen to collaspe. All I have ever seen is photos like this:


TH

Originally Posted by Thaihome

The "M60 amunition " is refering to ammunition for the M60 grenade launcher not the 7.62mm round fired by the M60 machine gun.

It is? So, according to you, is "M60" the grenade or its launcher?

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

I've never heard of there being an "explosion" at Zen. I also don't recall seeing any photos of this or accounts of it from the journalists filming there at the time. Could you please provide a link or 2, as I appear to have missed these rather important incidents and they would change my opinion of events that day. Thanks Tom.

OK little miss intrepid correspondent.. here you go. Journalism 101 - because someone shows you a masked man smashing windows then shows you a fire, it doesn't mean the stone thrower was the arsonist.

Fire doesn't do this to steel reinforced concrete buildings. The concrete floors and concrete pillars collapsed. Maybe an airplane flew into the building? Cause fire didn't cause this collapse in central world. It destroyed lots of other stuff but it didn't do this. There were reports in the weeks before the crackdown of soldiers walking around inside placing large gas cylinders in various spots of the Central World mall.









Now compare the damage above to the Oklahoma City bombing below.





You've flunked Journalism 101. Now go back to cut/paste of the Nation and TAN okay?

No Miss tight-nickers, you've showed us nothing new - all your photos are yet again - photos of the building's interior burning and some kid in black throwing tires onto the fire. What's your point? Does this mean the RED's DID IT? My answer is yes the guy in black is a likely a red throwing tires into the fire - even though I don't know who he is - but of course you do. However you haven't even attmpted to address my main point: Fire doesn't do this to steel reinforced concrete building so how does one explain the damage? Or are you going to come back with some lame "Tom is a conspiracy, tin foil," ya, da, yada nonesense like all the other mental lightweights?

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

No Miss tight-nickers, you've showed us nothing new - all your photos are yet again - photos of the building's interior burning and some kid in black throwing tires onto the fire. What's your point? Does this mean the RED's DID IT? My answer is yes the guy in black is a likely a red throwing tires into the fire - even though I don't know who he is - but of course you do. However you haven't even attmpted to address my main point: Fire doesn't do this to steel reinforced concrete building so how does one explain the damage? Or are you going to come back with some lame "Tom is a conspiracy, tin foil," ya, da, yada nonesense like all the other mental lightweights?

Tom it boils down to commonsense.

The evidence that the red shirts did burn Central World is compelling.

The evidence that some other shadowy group burnt Central World just isn't there. There are some crackpot theories, but no hard evidence.

There are photos and videos, which I've posted earlier in this thread either showing red shirts involved in arson and vandalism of Central World or milling about (one of a group cheering as it burns, no soldiers about). And there are eye wintess testimonies, such as the Human Rights Watch "Descent into Chaos" report, which clearly states that the red shirts were involved in the arson (also posted earlier in this thread) and journalists such as Andrew Marshall who reported that red shirts were around Central World as late as 6pm.

Twitter provides latest news on Bangkok political violence (photos) - New York destinations | Examiner.com

people looting central world... they don't care for the fire... [About 6 PM Bangkok]

thai guy in front of me with two different new adidas shoes and a brand new jacket... he is one of the only happy guys today! [About 7 PM Bangkok]


And then there's the rather glaring fact of arson committed by red shirts at 35 locations around Bangkok (2010 Thai political protests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

The evidence for the red shirts torching Central World is overwhelming. The evidence for others being involved is virtually non-existent.

That is the reality. So continue to cling to your theories, as you see fit. I will work with what is known so far.....

If compelling evidence comes to light that proves that Central World wasn't burnt by the red shirts, I'd be more than happy to change my opinion. So far, 18 months after the event, there is nothing.

The day inner Bangkok went crazy shouldn't be forgotten | Bangkok Post: news

In PRINT

The day inner Bangkok went crazy shouldn't be forgotten

• Published: 26/05/2012 at 03:18 AM
• Newspaper section: News

May 19, 2012 was the second anniversary of the torching of Bangkok and the core leaders of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship organised red shirt followers to occupy Ratchaprasong intersection again in commemoration, noted Post Today.


After two months of occupation of Ratchaprasong intersection and the crackdown by security forces, red shirts and black shirts went on a rampage of vandalism, gutting CentralWorld, a major centre of Bangkok’s world of glamour.

UDD leaders again took the stage to remind the red shirts that they must pressure the government to demand justice and find out who killed innocent people who had assembled peacefully with no weapons.

"I did not issue an order to torch Bangkok, did not kill soldiers, did not fire M79 rockets towards people. Only the state's security forces killed innocent people." That was the tenor of what the leaders told their followers last Saturday.

However, Post Today countered that Ratchaprasong is not in a twilight zone. The media could see the facts with their own eyes back in 2010.

Shortly after the core UDD leaders abandoned the stage in front of CentralWorld and surrendered to police, everyone saw with their own eyes the torching of many Bangkok buildings. A Post Today reporter on May 20, 2010 reported on the damage to the underground parking at CentralWorld inflicted by a group of black shirts spraying bullets and grenades at CentralWorld executives' cars as well as torching CentralWorld itself. He also quoted Praiwan Runnok, 45, head of CentralWorld's security.

The Korat native said that on that fateful day after the red shirt leaders left the stage, CentralWorld was invaded by red shirt supporters as well as a group of black shirts who began to ransack the mall and torch it. Police and soldiers were unable to enter the area as the black shirts periodically fired bullets, rockets as well as giant fireworks. These incidents were in stark contrast to the red shirt leaders' claims that red shirts assembled in peace with no weapons.

Mr Praiwan said only CentralWorld guards were left to protect the property. They tried to extinguish the flames but were fired upon and had to dodge grenades. One guard was injured.

"I fled to the underground car park. A black shirt followed me and I hid behind a wall, near the stairs." When the black shirt ran down the stairs, he punched him in the face and kicked him in the chest.

Mr Praiwan seized his AK-47 and aimed it at the black shirt, who fled.

"I was calm, able to control my emotions. If I had not charged and wrested away the gun, I could have been shot dead," he said.

About 20 minutes after the black shirt fled, he returned with half a dozen others. On seeing Mr Praiwan, the black shirt told the others to throw grenades to kill him and destroy parked cars.

Mr Praiwan said he and three of his men had to withdraw as the black shirts broke into cars and stole valuables.

Then 50-60 red shirts broke open the shopping centre's doors, carrying in LPG containers. Mr Praiwan's security team tried to stop them but came up against guns and grenades and had to withdraw. The guards were then told to evacuate about 300 workers protecting the mall through an adjoining property at Siam Paragon.

"Our boss told us to try to protect CentralWorld. But he saw that we were not enough to hold back the mob and told us to save our own lives first," Mr Praiwan said.

"I felt very sad that Thais were fighting Thais, not foreigners invading us. Whatever the conflict between the government and the UDD, they should not have caused others to suffer," he said.

Today, Mr Praiwan is still working at CentralWorld providing security for the renovated shopping centre. He hopes his men will not again encounter such a nightmarish experience.

This is the other side to the occupation of Ratchaprasong two years ago.

DSI: "Men in black" not involved | Bangkok Post: breakingnews

DSI: "Men in black" not involved

• Published: 10/07/2012 at 02:46 PM
• Online news:

The so-called "men in black" were not involved in the theft and arson at the CentralWorld department store during the street protests of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) during April-May 2010, Department of Special Investigation (DSI) chief Tarit Pengdit said on Tuesday.

Mr Tarit said nine people were arrested and charged with theft in connection with the CentralWorld fire.

They were Pinij Channarong, Wisit Klaewkla, Paskorn Chaisitha, Komsan Sudchanham, Attapol Wanto, Arthit Baosuwan, Pornchai Lohitdee, Yuthachai Sinoi, and Jiam Thongma.

The DSI recommended the prosecution of the nine and forwarded the case to the prosecution on Aug 4, 2010. The prosecutors indicted seven of them with the South Bangkok Criminal Court and two youths with the Central Juvenile and Family Court.

Indicted with the Central Juvenile and Family Court were Paskorn Chaisitha and Attapol Wanto.

The South Bangkok Criminal Court on Dec 1, 2011, sentenced the seven to six months each in jail for violating the emergency decree. Only Komsan was additionally sentenced to three years in jail for theft. The verdict was final since the prosecutors did not appeal.

As for the case against Paskorn and Attapol, the Central Juvenile and Family Court has finished examination of prosecution witnesses. The case is still being under the court's proceedings.

As for the arson case, the DSI chief said it was handled by Pathumwan police. Warrants were issued for the arrest of nine suspects.

Of the nine suspects, five were unidentified Thai men who were seen in pictures. The four identified were Saichol Paebua, Pinij Channarong, Attapol Wanto, and Paskorn Chaisitha. Pinij, Attapol and Paskorn were also suspects in the theft case.

All of the nine suspects were indicted in connection with Central World fire which caused more than 8 billion baht damage and a man identified as Kittipong Somsuk, a 19-year-old from Si Sa Ket, was found dead of suffocation.

Saichon and Pinij were indicted with the South Bangkok Criminal Court. In this case, the court is still in the process of examining prosecution witnesses.

Paskorn and Attapol were indicted with the Central Juvenile and Family Court. The court is also still in the process of examining prosecution witnesses.

Mr Tarit said the theft and arson cases are separate from terrorism cases. There were no evidence to prove that the arson was intended for robbery, he added.

He said the so-called "men in black" were not involved in the theft and arson cases. The "men in black" were mentioned only in cases related to terrorism, he added.

Asked whether Central World could sue to claim insurance money, Mr Tarit said the matter could not yet be concluded because the insurance companies refused to pay, saying that the fire and theft might involve terrorism.

If it was concluded that terrorism was not involved in the CentralWorld arson, the insurance companies would have to pay, said the DSI chief.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

If it was concluded that terrorism was not involved in the CentralWorld arson, the insurance companies would have to pay, said the DSI chief.