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Has to have been in the water bottles, the ones that stayed in that evening would have drunk more water from those bottles, as for carbon monoxide from a running vehicle I doubt that that would be described as an unusual chemical smell as most people know what exhaust fumes smell like.
carbon monoxide would just put them to sleep. i don't think it would cause any vomiting.
Hope they investigate the hotel owner. Her business dealings and rivals, who she owes money to, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TizMe
Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Symptoms
Because carbon monoxide is odourless and colourless it is not always evident when it has become a problem is the home. Often people who have a mild to moderate problem will find they feel sick while they spend time at home. They might feel a little better outside in the fresh air but will have re-occurring symptoms shortly after returning home. If other members of the family have re-occurring bouts with flu-like symptoms while fuel-burning appliances are being used it may be time to have the house checked by a professional.
Carbon Monoxide itself is odorless and colorless but if, say, a cooking stove (or water treatement plant) were operating outside their windows then other smells could enter the room.
Symptoms of Carbon Monoxide Poisoning
Low levels of carbon monoxide poisoning can be confused with flu symptoms, food poisoning or other illnesses and can have a long term health risk if left unattended. Some of the symptoms are the following.
* Shortness of breath
* Mild nausea
* Mild headaches
Moderate levels of CO exposure can cause death if the following symptoms persist for a long measure of time.
* Headaches
* Dizziness
* Nausea
* Light-headedness
High levels of CO can be fatal causing death within minutes.
Treatment Options
There are immediate measures you can take to help those suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning.
* Get the victim into fresh air immediately.
* If you can not get the people out of the house, then open all windows and doors. Any combustion appliances should be turned off.
* Take those who were subjected to carbon monoxide to a hospital emergency room as quickly as possible. A simple blood test will be able to determine if carbon monoxide poisoning has occurred.
Symptoms of Carbon Monoxide Poisoning
I am about 90% sure this is a case of hydrogen cyanide poisoning. There is a lot of evidence when one look at all symptoms from various news stories. Anyone know if the characteristic chemical smell could be described as "a faint, bitter, almond-like odor" ? Also the latest lung symptoms match perfectly as HCN gas can lead to Congestion of Lungs (water in lungs) and necrosis (cell death with a cascading effect). Could also be Hydrogen Sulfide poisoning but HCN is more likely especially with early reports of cyanide traces. My guess is that they are looking for the source, and keeping it a secret until they find it. This to not cause panic damaging tourism etc..
Have a look at this and cross check it with news stories and you will see it is spot on:
scribd.com/doc/9923304/Cyanide-Gas-Toxicity
Posted by
cjvan
Naperville, IL
on Topix:
>>>>>>
I suspect the guest house is trying to fumigate for either bedbugs or termites without knowing what they are doing. The tourists' symptoms fit with Vikane poisoning. What's baffling is that there is more than one accidental death from the same chemical at same location.
What is Vikane?
Vikane is a colorless, odorless gas with the chemical name sulfuryl fluoride (SO2F2).
An acrid-smelling fumigant called chloropicrin (used for tear gas) is released into the structure with Vikane to provide a noticeable warning when leaks occur. Vikane is made exclusively by Dow AgroSciences and is used in homes primarily to kill drywood termites. Sulfuryl fluoride is also sold under the name ProFume and used to fumigate stored grains and dried fruits and nuts.
Will Vikane hurt me and my family?
Yes. Symptoms of exposure to Vikane include stinging eyes as well as nose, throat, and lung irritation. Exposure can cause fluid to collect in the lungs, a complication that can lead to serious respiratory illness. Other effects include nausea and vomiting, as well as neurological symptoms such as slurred speech, slowed gait, weakness, irritability, numbness, tremors, and seizures. Chronic neurotoxic effects observed in fumigant applicators include tremors, inability to concentrate, and reduction in cognitive skills. There are several reported poisonings in California where people have died after trying to enter a tarped house while it is bfumigated, and even one reported death when the house
>>>>>>>>>
Yes, Vikane could be a culprit. Note that by itself it has no odor or color and you need to add another chemical to it to make sure people can smell it (and be warned). I can see the Thais skipping this step.
I’d like to know if it is available in Thailand.
“Only a small margin exists between lethal and non-lethal exposures”.
See url for more details.
PHYSICIAN'S GUIDE TO PESTICIDE POISONING
"NORWEGIAN police are reported to be keen to pursue the case of the two young tourists who died mysteriously on the holiday island of Phi Phi almost two months ago.
Officers in the home town of one of the victims, Julie Bergheim, are said to be agitating for a second autopsy in an attempt to solve the riddle of the Laleena Guesthouse."
Phi Phi Riddle: Pursuing the Deaths of Two Tourists - Phuket Wan
I guess so.Quote:
Originally Posted by guyinthailand
i wondered if it could be methane from a backed up sewage system, given that alot of resorts use the concrete tube systems , not modern septic tanks.
if the underground tanks are not vented correctly or they get blocked, gas will backflow into your room.
The symptoms manifested were of bacterial models, so one could rule out a short-term exposure to methane.Quote:
Originally Posted by phunphin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rural SurinThe symptoms manifested were of bacterial models, so one could rule out a short-term exposure to methane.Quote:
Originally Posted by phunphin
" Bacterial models" ?
Sounds like someone has been watching too much Miami CSI
Symptoms could be viral or bacterial induced, but the fact that neither have been found, or at least the Phuket Ragette claims ( always take their reports with a grain of salt..) neither have been found by Thai authorities , and the lung tissue biopsy in US didn't either, I'm sticking with pesticide or other toxic agent - either administered accidentally or intentionally within the establishment's rooms .
Something the international press rarely reports is the, what- almost 4000 deaths in the south in four years from terrorist attacks.?
That's probably the highest rate in the world.
Are Muslim terrorists spreading from the south? Why not ? And attacking tourist destinations seems a more effective target than teachers and monks in the far south that nobody in the rest of the world gives a shit about .
Maybe Phi Phi was a practice run...
click here
Thailand tourist's lung tissue 'gone' after mysterious death - CNN.com
Thailand tourist's lung tissue 'gone' after mysterious death
updated 11:47 p.m. EDT, Fri May 29, 2009
- Story Highlights
- Seattle woman is one of 2 tourists who died of unknown causes
- Family says pathologist says her "lungs were 100 percent congested"
- Thai officials have been focusing on food poisoning as cause of death
if anyone is listening by now (which I doubt) I've heard this story before.
Tourists order mussells and oysters, which tend to come from Songkhla, ( where I live) and delicious they are too.
Transporting them to offshore Western islands by whatever means, in the back of a pick-up, plus the ferry journey, errrrm......
Some weeks ago when someone said they had a problem, I said "Didn't people warn you? Buying shellfish in Krabi province? Now you know."
Of course some restaurants will invest in refrigerated trucks and absolute hygiene throughout the logistics process. :rolleyes:
Has there been another murder threat?
Phi Phi Deaths Riddle: 'It's Finished,' say Police
Friday, July 31, 2009
ALMOST three months on, whatever caused the deaths of two young tourists on the idyllic holiday island of Phi Phi remains a mystery.
Guests are back staying in Rooms Four and Five at Laleena, the unpretentious two-storey guesthouse that lies at the heart of the riddle.
Although the pair had never met, American Jill St Onge, 27, and Julie Bergheim, 22, fell ill in those adjoining rooms, and died suddenly, horribly, within hours of each other.
But why? Thirteen weeks on, nobody can say.
Although there has been speculation galore, official investigations have so far drawn a blank, and seem likely to continue to do so.
For grieving family and friends in America and Norway, hope of ever fully understanding what took place half a world away that weekend in early March seems to be gradually disappearing.
There is some understandable anger at the lack of answers.
Yet on the holiday island where Miss St Onge and Miss Bergheim died within hours of each other, life goes on.
At Laleena, owner Rat Chuped says seven of the 10 rooms are currently occupied . . . including Rooms Four and Five.
After the deaths, she even spent a night in one of the rooms herself, just to reinforce her confident belief that nothing in the rooms was the cause.
She still maintains that the guesthouse, owned with her husband since before the 2004 tsunami laid waste to the island, has no connection with the two deaths.
''I've called the police and an officer told me, 'Don't worry, everything is finished, it's over,'' she said to Phuketwan today.
''If that's the case, then I would like the parts from the air-conditioning unit returned, to save me from having to buy another one.''
Those air-conditioner parts and samples taken from household chemicals at Laleena may hold the last hope for an answer.
Researchers at a Thai university laboratory have yet to report whether the samples and the parts hold any clues to the mystery.
However, the potential clues were not taken until three weeks after the deaths, so the likelihood of a scientific revelation seems remote.
Today, Thai forensic officials in Bangkok rejected criticism that their report from the St Onge autopsy was inadequate, saying that it matched international standards.
An online blog, updated by St Onge's brother, says: ''The Thailand autopsy report is a joke. It was about three pages long and most of it was margin space and emblems.
''I believe here in the 'States an autopsy report starts at around 20 pages, and for something like what happened to Jill would be much longer.''
According to the blog, the autopsy ''did verify that there were NO drugs or alcohol in her system, so those bogus rogue Thailand reports from 'Government officials' can be put to rest.
''We are still waiting for some more reports to be translated from Thailand, and we have been in contact with Julie's family (the young lady that also died in the same guest house).''
The Thai autopsy reported low level of one particular enzyme, but that does not appear to hold great significance.
Although tissue samples were taken at the time of the Bangkok autopsy and tested in the US on behalf of the St Onge family, no conclusions on the cause of death have been established there or in Thailand.
St Onge's body was cremated and her ashes were carried home. It is believed Bergheim's body was transported to Norway, where police from her home town subsequently called for further investigations.
At one stage, Interpol's help was said to have been requested, but the international policing agency did not respond to email questions from Phuketwan.
American Ryan Kells, 31, who was travelling with Miss St Onge and also fell sick, then recovered, has consistently blamed the death of his bride-to-be on some kind of chemical.
There was a strange smell present in the room, he says, when they checked in that fateful Saturday, May 2.
The 19-year-old Norwegian woman travelling with Miss Bergheim, and already occupying the ground-floor room next door, has been less forthcoming.
She is yet to publicly reveal her views on what happened, although she too fell sick and only recovered after intensive care in two Thai hospitals.
The mysterious deaths remain just that. Tourists who have followed the two couples to the holiday island seem undeterred.
And on Phi Phi, where contented visitors provide the sole source of income, it's unlikely that locals will ever raise the deaths with strangers, or dwell on the mystery for long.
Phi Phi Deaths Riddle: 'It's Finished,' say Police - Phuket Wan
from a blogspot about Jill St Onge click here: About Jill: Contact the Embassy...
Tuesday, August 4, 2009
Contact the Embassy...
"The lack of answers to the death of Jill and Julie is frustrating and disturbing at the same time. Please contact the embassy and let them know people are still following this tragedy. We would like some sort of action/answer/proof that something is being done to find out what happened.
"Email the US Embassy in Thailand at acsbkk[at]state.gov Let them know we are tired of not getting results!
"The contact there is Charles Carson. In the subject line put "Attn: Charles Carson in regards to the death of Jill St. Onge"
A German who died in Phuket in May:
Stay away from Phuket, for sure.Quote:
A source at the hospital said the course of Mr Hermannweid’s rapid demise was consistent with infection by the Eltor-Okawa cholera bacterium that also causes severe diarrhea. However, the source warned that it was impossible to know for sure without a full autopsy.
Cholera sounds like the news that will help tourism.
But lets be clear here that there is no way that cholera could be the cause of the death of the ladies on Phi Phi. Cholera is characterized by massive diarrhea, and that would hardly be left out of any report (from the boyfriend etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by BugginOut
Phi Phi Deaths Riddle: Norway Chases Answers
Phi Phi Deaths Riddle: Norway Chases Answers - Phuket Wan
Wednesday, August 26, 2009
OFFICERS in Norway are trying to solve the mysterious deaths of two young women tourists on the holiday island of Phi Phi that have baffled Thai police.
The body of American Jill St Onge, 27, was cremated in Thailand soon after an autopsy in Bangkok. Forensic research on blood and tissue samples in the US and Thailand has since failed to find a cause of death.
After an autopsy in Thailand, the body of Julie Bergheim, 22, was transported back to Norway in June. Now a new series of examinations is to be conducted in Norway in an attempt to solve the riddle.
Both women, who occupied adjoining rooms at Laleena Guesthouse, died within hours of each other at the Phi Phi hospital on May 2 and May 3 from a mysterious malady.
Many theories have been put forward about what could have possibly killed the two young tourists and made their travelling companions ill.
But forensic scientists have so far drawn a blank.
Like Phuketwan reporter Chutima Sidasathian, Norwegian reporter Stig Martin Solberg travelled to Phi Phi after the deaths to cover the mystery.
Today he reports in nettavisen.no that Norwegian forensic police are determined to find the cause of the deaths.
''Norwegian police and the forensic institute in Oslo have not given up hope,'' he reports.
The new inquiries are being led by Sjaker Haaheim, of police-district Sondre Buskerud. This is the Norwegian county where Miss Bergheim lived.
''After the body of Miss Bergheim arrived in Norway in early June, the Rett Medical Institute in Oslo provided a full autopsy,'' he said.
Now, with the cooperation of Thai authorities and the Norwegian Embassy in Bangkok, a fresh investigation is being undertaken.
''We have received all relevant documents from the local police as well as the results of analysis by the forensic institute in Bangkok,'' he said.
''Now we aim to help the Bergheim family members to get as many answers about the cause of death as possible."
A preliminary report from the new autopsy has been done and investigators are waiting for the full report.
''When it comes is uncertain. It requires complicated analysis, so no date can be specified for completion.''
He warns against being too optimistic.
''It is by no means certain that we can solve the mystery, but we will do what we can.''
Consul Birgit Brantenberg at the Norwegian embassy in Bangkok told Solberg: ''The investigation under the auspices of the provincial police in Krabi is not completed.''
Laboratory tests on samples of chemicals and air-conditioning parts, taken from Laleena three weeks after the deaths, are continuing in Thailand.
It's business as usual back at the Laleena on Phi Phi, where guests now stay in the same rooms where Miss Berheim and Miss St Onge fell ill.
When backpacking how many times have i gone straight for the 5 baht bottle of water by the 6 pack sitting out in the sun for god knows how long over the 14 baht bottle in the 4 degree C, cabinet, i would be checking the el cheapo local bottleing plant. sounds like contanimated water to me. either pathogens or some sort of toxic shock from the cheap plastic bottle.
So sorry to loose healthy kids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugginOut
I want to know more about the young Kuwait women in late July who died mysteriously in Phuket AFTER visiting Phi- Phi on a day trip. She was coughing
(so it is reported.)
And the German man in late June was vomiting. The "cholera "reference came from either uninformed or misinforming, hospital worker.
Diarhea isn't reported at all except the first Norwegian man in May and that HAS been explained as food poisoning, uh or has it? We aren't getting the whole story on anything else .
I've lost count, but I think it's up to 12- 13 unexplained deaths in the Phi -Phi/ Phuket region since June 1-not counting the handful of suspected violent homocides and washed up bodies.
I wish someone would run the numbers- Southern Thailand IS DANGEROUS for tourists AND Thais.
I'm finding the local press/internet news increasingly loathe to report on anything threatening tourism-today's PhuketWan BS headline;
"..The myth perpetuated by western press,.. T. Land is dangerous.."
Serial killer?Quote:
Originally Posted by MustavaMond