The COVID-2019 Thread

[Bettyboo]

Bowie makes some good points here: if you're unemployed in the US then you want a job, you wanna put food on the table; the ability not to do that is a bigger problem than the risk of Covid-19. I saw a program where they were talking about worse case scenario, US, 30%+ unemployed...

Many folks all over the world fit into this or a similar category - they cannot sit at home, no work, no money coming in, no savings. Europe is in a different situation due to the social support, but Italy, Spain, Eastern Europe has got some of the same problems. The EU central bank will probably print more more to go into social support programs, but the fed prints money to support wealth protection, banks, etc, so US workers get fuked every which way til Sunday.

[NamPikToot]

Mercan members of the Boogaloo Movement which seeks to end lockdowns and mistreatment of canines.

[harrybarracuda]

Bowie makes some good points here: if you're unemployed in the US then you want a job, you wanna put food on the table; the ability not to do that is a bigger problem than the risk of Covid-19. I saw a program where they were talking about worse case scenario, US, 30%+ unemployed...

Many folks all over the world fit into this or a similar category - they cannot sit at home, no work, no money coming in, no savings. Europe is in a different situation due to the social support, but Italy, Spain, Eastern Europe has got some of the same problems. The EU central bank will probably print more more to go into social support programs, but the fed prints money to support wealth protection, banks, etc, so US workers get fuked every which way til Sunday.

Andrew Yang not looking so fucking dumb now eh.

[jabir]

Bowie makes some good points here: if you're unemployed in the US then you want a job, you wanna put food on the table; the ability not to do that is a bigger problem than the risk of Covid-19. I saw a program where they were talking about worse case scenario, US, 30%+ unemployed...

Many folks all over the world fit into this or a similar category - they cannot sit at home, no work, no money coming in, no savings. Europe is in a different situation due to the social support, but Italy, Spain, Eastern Europe has got some of the same problems. The EU central bank will probably print more more to go into social support programs, but the fed prints money to support wealth protection, banks, etc, so US workers get fuked every which way til Sunday.

At what point does the Fed own the Treasury and effectively the US of A?

[Bettyboo]

Andrew Yang not looking so fucking dumb now eh.

Indeed.

America has very little, if any, social net for such instances.

Going back to work now is obviously not the solution (if the US tries it, or any nation, too early, then they just go back to the start and do it all over again...), but you can sympathise with folks in this plight - what are they supposed to do? The US is one of the worst hit, and it highlights the terrible social state over there - the rich are alright, they close down their companies, don't pay salaries/severance at anything like the UK/EU levels, then just rehire when it's all over. In the meantime, the banks are getting huge handouts, the stockmarket is being supported by the fed, and the 1% are making more money...

[SKkin]

At what point does the Fed own the Treasury and effectively the US of A?

1913...

[OhOh]

Country,	Total	New	Total	Tot Cases/	Deaths/	Total	Tests/
Other	Cases	Cases	Deaths	1M pop	1M pop	Tests	1M pop
World	2,348,953	18,187	161,221	301	20.7
USA	738,923	131	39,015	2,232	118	3,722,209	11,245
Spain	195,944	1,528	20,453	4,191	437	930,230	19,896
Italy	175,925		23,227	2,910	384	1,305,833	21,598
France	151,793		19,323	2,325	296	463,662	7,103
Germany	143,779	55	4,543	1,716	54	1,728,357	20,629
UK	114,217		15,464	1,682	228	460,437	6,783
China	82,735	16	4,632	57	3

This Weeks Winner:

Total Cases = USA
New Cases = Spain
Total Deaths = USA
Total Cases / 1M Population = Spain
Deaths / 1M Population = Spain
Total Tests = USA
Total Tests / 1M Population = Spain

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Halfway through the season and the Yanks moving up the league , three category winners this week, can they take all seven?

Will the Spanish team run out of breath, will USA blow away the competition?

MAGA
MAGA
MAGA

[harrybarracuda]

There are some interesting historical narratives here:

The American Influenza Epidemic of 1918: A Digital Encyclopedia

[harrybarracuda]

Another 6,000 cases in Russia today, although of course Putin is claiming he has it all under control.

Probably another one lying through his teeth like the chinkies.

[HermantheGerman]

.....we are all fucked either way,

Surrendering as always

[Cujo]

A parade that killed thousands?
Something went wrong.
This should be required reading for Trump and Kushner.
What not to do. A well written interesting article.
excerpt.

In the days before the parade, Philadelphia officials distributed 20,000 flyers urging citizens to cover their mouths when they coughed or sneezed. "If the people are careless," Krusen was quoted as saying in the Phil[at]a[at]del[at]phia Even[at]ing Bul[at]le[at]tin the day of the parade, "thousands of cases may develop and the epidemic may get beyond control." That same article reported that 118 people in the city had been diagnosed with the virus. But still he permitted the parade to proceed. On the 28th, a snaking line of Boy Scouts, marching bands, women's auxiliaries, and troops 2 miles long wound its way up Broad Street. War[at]planes flew overhead as an enormous, tightly packed crowd of 200,000 cheered. Within three days, every bed in Phil[at]a[at]del[at]phia's 31 hospitals was occupied. Within a week, 45,000 citizens were infected and the entire city had shut down.

Did the shutdown help?
It was too late. By the second week in November, 12,000 Phila[at]del[at]phians were dead, and the phrase "bodies stacked like cordwood" had become commonplace among the survivors. "It was an apocalyptic scene," said Davis. "In some cases, public-health nurses would be walking into tenements and finding whole families dead." Bodies piled up on sidewalks after the city morgue, capable of holding only 36 people, was overwhelmed. Within six months, 16,000 were dead, and 500,000 Phil[at]a[at]del[at]phians had fallen ill with the flu. Mean[at]while, unsubstantiated rumors circulated among the frightened populace that the Germans had unleashed the flu on U.S. soil via spies who'd arrived on U-boats.

[bowie]

Frankly folk, the mitigation ship has sailed. As we gather more information disturbing facts remain - it is a stealth infection with 80% of those infected exhibiting minor or no symptoms. We do not have a viable method of testing the general population. The virus is everywhere.

So, our efforts to mitigate the spread won't work. It is true that, in the words of the CDC boss (I think) - the virus can't swim six feet, so he said we have a method to combat the virus, social distancing. Humankind will not, and cannot maintain the total and absolute isolation six feet of distancing would require. Our city populations are far to dense and isolation is against human nature.

Fortunately the medical damage appears to be contained to the elderly and immune system compromised. Realize it is not a Fatal disease - fatalities occur but catching the virus probably won't kill you. 85% of the 80+ yo who become infected do survive.

The economic damage is the real societal damage - yes, families are devastated by the loss of a loved one - but, people die, continually. The economic damage is derailing many, many, many families during their most productive earning years - the years when they need to accumulate a nest egg to support themselves in retirement.

All that being said - the people are already revolting - they have proven, beyond discussion, that they will NOT comply with the social distancing guidelines. Pursuing containment will not work unless the vast majority of the population is on board and willing to comply - they are not and will not.


Unfortunately we cannot mitigate the medical damage - the people won't comply - we can only mitigate the economic damage. Sad, but true.

[Loy Toy]

^ Agree with your comments & opinions 100%.

[sabang]

Chinee GDP has dropped 6.8% in a quarter. That's strange, considering all these guru's on FB are assuring us that Beijing & Shanghai were not even hit by the pandemic, and the chinks just exported it to us as punishment for colonialism.

[Chittychangchang]

Pursuing containment will not work unless the vast majority of the population is on board and willing to comply - they are not and will not.

I had to threaten some selfish idiots with the police today.
We'll see how long it lasts,morons.

[Seekingasylum]

The English are far too thick to adhere to a policy requiring common sense and social responsibility as so vividly exampled by their voting for Brexit.

Most, if not all, EU countries have pretty much stuck to the protocols imposed by their countries without too much difficulty but the English seem to be the mavericks and prefer lumpen stupidity as a COVID prophylactic.

In truth, no surprise there, eh?

[Seekingasylum]

Unfortunately we cannot mitigate the medical damage - the people won't comply - we can only mitigate the economic damage. Sad, but true.

You make these rather portentous statements as if they were handed down to you by some deity but really you are talking complete bollocks.

Containment has worked successfully with socially responsible citizens acting for the common good in myriad countries e.g Denmark, Germany, Taiwan, HK, Portugal, Finland even Greece and testing rates have played a key role in many with th consequence that they are now in a position to relax economic constraints.

You have to accept that the US and the UK in particular are fuckups paying the price - too little, too late with a significant bovine population too stupid to comprehend anything other than demagoguery and vacuous rhetoric.

[Chittychangchang]

You really are detached from reality!
I was refering to non English idiots.The majority are social distancing,the teanagers moreso than the stupid OAPs that deem it necessary to undertake an hours exercise a day akin to startled rabits when they've done bugger all regular exercise in their boomer lives.
God works in mysterious ways....

[bowie]

handed down to you by some deity

ahh yea, the deity of common sense - juries still out the so called effectiveness of containment efforts. Any statistical grouping has the below average above average and average groupings.

I figure we should use the arctic antarctic as the hallmarks of excellence -

so many unknowns - but facts remain - Only the Unlucky few are going to die from Covid-19. Not 50 million, not 1/3 of the population.

Tempest in a teacup - we, as the human race, are damaging ourselves far more on an economic basis than on a medical basis.

And, yes, the possibility of a fatal mutation developing does exist. But, until it does human nature will rule. And, humans, by nature, will not comply with unjustified draconian measures that are causing Far, Far more Damage than good.

[Bettyboo]

I really do sympathise with the Americans due to their dire situation, but if nothing was done, if everyone just goes back to work now, then it won't just be a few elderly dying (folks who would die soon anyways...).

- hospitals will be overwhelmed, doctors and nurses will die in significant numbers and the healthcare system will collapse.
- once the healthcare system collapses, other areas are at risk of collapse, areas that provide basic amenities such as water, electricity and food deliveries; local councils will not be able to function.
- in the US, that mean riots on the streets, army called out, martial law...

Americans really do have a different mindset from the rest of the world. It's not a great mindset for times like these.

Sad to say, but you have to cede some personal rights for the sake of society.

What we are seeing though is how the system in the US is at breaking point, crony capitalism has slewed society so far towards the 1% that the masses are suffering horribly with very little State/Federal support while big business/big business owners (not small or medium sized businesses...) are massively supported by the Federal system. The billionaires have the FED and the Federal system in their pocket, that's the underlying issue here which is causing all the problems.

The EU/UK is not perfect, but very much better governance at the Federal level than the US, as we are seeing.

[lom]

- in the US, that mean riots on the streets, army called out, martial law...

Yeah, open up the arms shops.

What we are seeing though is how the system in the US is at breaking point, crony capitalism has slewed society so far towards the 1% that the masses are suffering horribly with very little State/Federal support while big business/big business owners (not small or medium sized businesses...) are massively supported by the Federal system. The billionaires have the FED and the Federal system in their pocket, that's the underlying issue here which is causing all the problems.

Can someone remind me of the reason why they have an amendment to their constitution regarding rights to own guns?

[Bettyboo]

Yeah, open up the arms shops.



Can someone remind me of the reason why they have an amendment to their constitution regarding rights to own guns?

Not a subject I know much/anything about... A quick look seems to support the point being made (Second Amendment | Wex | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute) - the "people" can have little guns, but the amendment focuses upon the rights of the army/federal/state to have the huge guns to manage and protect their interests...

What's your take on it, Lom?

[Bettyboo]

American is in a tough place right now, this is an interesting article: Coronavirus: US faced with protests amid pressure to reopen - BBC News

State v Federal again (although, Trump just speaks randomly rather than consistently following any discourse type, so his words here are as weird as usual...).

[Chittychangchang]

Apparently Plasma therapy is the key!

[Seekingasylum]

juries still out the so called effectiveness of containment efforts. .

Utter gibberish. The Western countries, and those in the developed Far East, that have escaped the worst of the slaughter all adopted robust containment protocols early on which were keenly observed by a responsible and socially aware citizenry.

The US is a template in much the same way the UK is, a complacent ignorant public slept walked into a disaster created by a negligent government with a buffoon as leader.

Whining about money is just so crass but not unexpected given that in each country the primacy of the economy is a policy more important than communal health.