Thread: Move to make health insurance mandatory for long-stay visas

my take on it all is, it will make an awfull lot of waves for the thai gov. apart from hh's fears. there are all the genuin family falangs with kid/dependents, can u really see the thai's kicking them all out,,,, must break every rule in the book.

Originally Posted by lob

my take on it all is, it will make an awfull lot of waves for the thai gov. apart from hh's fears. there are all the genuin family falangs with kid/dependents, can u really see the thai's kicking them all out,,,, must break every rule in the book.

have to agree with you on all that.
I have just been reading that Thailand has been rated in the top 10 for retirees in the WORLD you couldn't make it up.
TAT are ECSTATIC. as they have also been voted no2 in asia for,CULTURE,LIVING CONDITIONS AND WEATHER.

these past weeks there has been TOURISTS involved in accidents that need expensive treatment in hospital.
the latest is a youg man who fell hit his head and has had to have part of his brain removed,and is in a coma.TRAGIC but what i have read NO INSURANCE.
his parents will know the extent of the hospital bill if he survives.proberly in 7figuers.so lets wish him luck and hope he comes through.
now comes the title of this thread,THE MOVE TO MAKE MANDATORY HEALTH INSURANCE FOR LONG TERM RETIREMEMT EXPATS.
when was the last time that I read ? an expat on long term visa cannot pay his hospital bill?
I would have a guess that unpaid hospital bills must be over 75% of TOURISTS NOT LONG TERM EXPATS.who seem to have to BEAR THE BRUNT.
so we can expect,NO COVER,NO EXTENSION GET OUT.
tourist estimated at 38-40million each yr.no insurance don't worry you can still be WELCOME,GO FUND ME WILL TAKE CARE.
after decades of supporting Thailand are we being shit on BIG TIME.
T.I.T. TAFFY IN THAILAND.

Originally Posted by headhunter

these past weeks there has been TOURISTS involved in accidents that need expensive treatment in hospital.
the latest is a youg man who fell hit his head and has had to have part of his brain removed,and is in a coma.TRAGIC but what i have read NO INSURANCE.
his parents will know the extent of the hospital bill if he survives.proberly in 7figuers.so lets wish him luck and hope he comes through.
now comes the title of this thread,THE MOVE TO MAKE MANDATORY HEALTH INSURANCE FOR LONG TERM RETIREMEMT EXPATS.
when was the last time that I read ? an expat on long term visa cannot pay his hospital bill?
I would have a guess that unpaid hospital bills must be over 75% of TOURISTS NOT LONG TERM EXPATS.who seem to have to BEAR THE BRUNT.
so we can expect,NO COVER,NO EXTENSION GET OUT.
tourist estimated at 38-40million each yr.no insurance don't worry you can still be WELCOME,GO FUND ME WILL TAKE CARE.
after decades of supporting Thailand are we being shit on BIG TIME.
T.I.T. TAFFY IN THAILAND.

A couple of points:

Insurance is a scam. There are all sorts of get out clauses, e.g. they won't pay out if you are drunk, they won't pay out if they can find a way to say that you were reckless, they do anything they can to avoid paying out. So you need to check insurance policies carefully and read the fucking small print.

Secondly, if they ever decide to do this, it will be in response to a need; my guess is the same people that are whinging about income letters are the people that do not have Bt800K in the bank so do not have the resources to pay in the event of a major medical incident. Thailand will know how many unpaid hospital bills are owed by delinquent farang, and I'm guessing that these rumblings from the government are in response to that.

The simplest solution to this is to abolish income letters altogether and not let pensioners stay here if they cannot prove that they can afford to pay for medical treatment. Another easy way to solve the problem would be for Thailand to run an insurance scheme to pay for treatment in its hospitals; it could be added to the visa fee for those that can't show sufficient funds.

And I've known lots of people over the years that have access to a shared pool of 400 or 800k (or borrow it temporarily) so they can put it in the bank just to renew their visa, but if they had a serious medical incident they would not be able to pay the bill.

I actually had a friend moaning about the fact that he needed surgery, so he had applied for medical insurance and was quite put out that they would not cover pre-existing conditions. What on earth did he expect? It's like buying a new car, not insuring it, having it stolen and then asking for a policy so that you can claim on it.

Even the UK is now doing this by the way.

There was a story in the press recently about a Pakistani who had overstayed his visa and ended up needing a heart transplant. They wouldn't do until he coughed up GBP37,000 (iirc). (He didn't have it - he died. He would probably have died in Pakistan anyway).

It has become a big problem now, people flying in from overseas to try and get free medical treatment on the NHS when they really have no right to it. I think it's correct to stamp this out, the NHS is a great thing but it is creaking because millions are being wasted on these fucking scroungers who've never put a penny into it.

after i had my overall heart surgery with extra's,i was told it would have cost me 80,000GBP.after 18months we moved here perminent ins.for that trip alone one way,went up from 85quid to 265.i did declare the surgery eg.
so in Thailand that would of cost me 3-4million bht.i can cover that many times over.but don't you think harry that most of us that do everything by the book and have assets to cover anything serious,yet it seems that tourist arrive here without any cover,remember when we had to pay 500bht.when departing at the airport,so why don't they do something similar on arrival.this can be made public before your trip.
as for them that live here on a shoe string and cant afford health cover OR assets similar to whats on the back of house deeds,bank letter,ect.if you cant prove you have money to cover your health then its TATA FOR NOW.and for all of us that have cover and can prove this give us some slack.so we don't have to bend over and get shafted by insurance company's. when the health dept.came up with the 2800bht.health scheme,yes it was a good idea,but it was TOOOOOOOOOO LOW.
although I am well blest I use the gov.hospitals if its not serious,yet I still get billed for scans,treatment,hospital stays and whatever they want to charge me for.the bills range 7,000bht.up to 24,000bht.i do get a private rooms at half price as my wife ia a volunteer [local health clinic].its time to say to everyone if you cant afford 1million for health cover your not welcome.proof of this I would rather see the cover in a bank [fixed dep]rather than in the coffers of ins.company's.

Originally Posted by headhunter

its already gone to be approved at the next cabinet meeting by 3 influential ins.co's.aswell as certain ministers.

The above quote is from Jan. 9th.
Cabinet meetings takes place once weekly so there has been 7 since you wrote that. What happened with the approval?

Originally Posted by lom

The above quote is from Jan. 9th.
Cabinet meetings takes place once weekly so there has been 7 since you wrote that. What happened with the approval?

now that march 1st.has come and gone,it could be all systems go.there does seem to be a lot of advertising on the telle.lately regarding private ins.FOR THAIS,so we can expect its our turn next.the meeting on the 9th.there were a lot of influential people there EG.3of the big thai ins.co's.plus a minister for tourism plus plus.
as I have posted regarding tourists arriving here without any cover and there has been a few high profile cases lately where they have no cover,so are they tieing up loose ends.
one for example is that all of us on retirement extensions must leave a minimum of 400k.in a thai bank acc.the whole time of the extension,and as 400k.health ins.was mentioned at the meeting maybe I SAY MAYBE is that goner be the minimum cover.but if it is that wont get you far if you have a week in ICU.i can prove I have self cover,but it worries me that those with dirty mits will want otherwise.we just got to wait and see.

Must be some serious conditions for large hospital bills mentioned here; are they from private or gov hospitals? While a million and more is easy enough to rack up over a few days intensive care at a private hospital, my limited experience with gov hospitals is that you would need something close to a new heart to reach those numbers.

Originally Posted by jabir

Must be some serious conditions for large hospital bills mentioned here; are they from private or gov hospitals? While a million and more is easy enough to rack up over a few days intensive care at a private hospital, my limited experience with gov hospitals is that you would need something close to a new heart to reach those numbers.

I had a CTA SCAN done in april 2561 they [gov.hosp.] wanted 25,500bht.the wife consulted with the doctor and paid 12,000bht.
as for the diagnosis they got it completely WRONG,i found out by taking the CD of the test to another hospital even the peripheral run off result which was translated to English I understood,and told the wife this CANT BE RIGHT. they even got the wrong leg that was giving me trouble.
so could we be pigs for the slaughter.i don't mind paying for any treatment as long as its RIGHT.

Ya, unfortunately lots of horror stories from both private and gov hospitals and with little to zero recourse for the victims, making the concept of 'health care' something of a misnomer; on the bright side even Thai docs can address most straightforward conditions without killing the patient.

We have just signed up with asia health , the agent told us it wasn't uncommon for foreigners to get treatment in Thailand that they cannot afford leaving the hospitals out of pocket.

Originally Posted by bowie

My angst is in the numbers.

Today, I’m paying just under USD $4.5k/annum for myself and my wife (2 persons 57/62yo) in-patient only with a USD $5k deductible and a limit of USD $1M/pp. So, the math, if one gets seriously sick - $1M/$10k(premium + deductible) = 1% a good deal.

Under the Thai Insurance Plan listed in post #21 (using Thaivivat) we would be paying THB 105k (2 persons 57/62yo) for THB 440k in coverage. 440k/105k = 24% a rip off, period exclamation point. When we get older the premiums increase to THB 240k (80/85yo) math 440k/240k = 55%, this ain’t only a “ripoff”, it’s an out-and-out giveaway.

Self-insured is my plan (at this point in time) when my premiums start to hit the 15-20% mark. If Thailand legally “forces” me to pay the premiums listed above. A legal challenge may well be warranted, failing that, repatriation and/or relocation to a more expat friendly location is on the list of options.

Your current plan price sounds about right, and as you put numbers in USD, I am guessing its a US based policy which allows you to change country and carry the policy with you ?

Originally Posted by expatfamily

Your current plan price sounds about right, and as you put numbers in USD, I am guessing its a US based policy which allows you to change country and carry the policy with you ?

The Plan I have is with Cigna Global administered out of Scotland. It's a Global Expat plan. Covering myself and my wife anywhere. I quoted in USD because I am paying the policy premiums on a monthly automatic basis from one of the financial accounts I have established in the US.

Regardless of the specifics - insurance is both regulated, and, highly competitive. Many, many, many countries regulate any insurance sold within their borders. For our situation, international travel is anticipated, so, we need an all inclusive medical insurance plan. Cigna did meet the criteria. I did investigate several other insurance companies and their plans. Cigna won my "due diligence".

Some insurance companies including a few "well-known" companies who advertise heavily about their wonderful coverage in the great country of Thailand are such blatant thieving ripoffs even Stevie Wonder sees right through them.

joke or NO JOKE, an expat living here with a marriage visa[long term] has a heart attack,he is rushed to the nearest hospital and is seen by a DOCTOR.
right sir how are you feeling,can i see your passport.HMMM.i see you have an extension based on marriage,fyyk off,next patient.

Originally Posted by Norton

They were happy with seeing my yellow book and the health card I was issued with the yellow book.

They must be still doing the free treatment to foreigners program in your area? They stopped it around here some years back due to only being available for aliens likes of Cambodian workers etc. Someone fcuked up and allowed farangs the same benefit.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

They must be still doing the free treatment to foreigners program in your area?

Appears they are given yellow book and health card. Without those 2 things, foreigners pay.

Originally Posted by Norton

Appears they are given yellow book and health card. Without those 2 things, foreigners pay.

Originally to obtain the free health care for foreigners one had to produce a Yellow Book. It was a condition of the scheme. It no longer applies, around here anyway, as the scheme was cancelled. Obviously not where you are Mr Norton.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Obviously not where you are Mr Norton.

Like immigration, different office, different rules. You know where I reside. As I recall, you are in Ubon?

Tid bit of info for the thread,
A colleague of mine just had emergency kidney stone surgery. He went to Bumrungrad. To get a surgery scheduled he was required to pay 80% of the estimated bill up front. The finance individual said they have always requested 80% of surgery up front for major surgeries. The total bill was 420,000 bht. Upon his departure he paid the other 20%. His insurance in the US will reimburse him in full.

I just don't really see this being an issue. You go to have major surgery. If you can't pay you either go back to your home country to have it done or depending on surgery needed, die. I really do not think there is a high % of foreigners having major surgeries and not paying. Love to see some data versus speculation

Originally Posted by Norton

Just finished a minor surgery thing at gov hospital. Total cost 800 baht for meds only. They were happy with seeing my yellow book and the health card I was issued with the yellow book. If the mandatory insurance thing becomes law, wonder if immigration will accept as the hospital did. Time will tell.

Just got back from my routine check up at the local gov hospital. From 7am until 3pm to get all done (blood taken at 7am, doc at 11, then wait to get the meds). Long day. Got 3 months heart medication. 120 baht to pay at the end of it all. Social security through work.

Originally Posted by JPPR2

Tid bit of info for the thread,
A colleague of mine just had emergency kidney stone surgery. He went to Bumrungrad. To get a surgery scheduled he was required to pay 80% of the estimated bill up front. The finance individual said they have always requested 80% of surgery up front for major surgeries. The total bill was 420,000 bht. Upon his departure he paid the other 20%. His insurance in the US will reimburse him in full.

I just don't really see this being an issue. You go to have major surgery. If you can't pay you either go back to your home country to have it done or depending on surgery needed, die. I really do not think there is a high % of foreigners having major surgeries and not paying. Love to see some data versus speculation

have to agree with you 150%,as I have been posting ITS TOURISTS that are the main problem and of course THAI DRIVERS who are the biggest burden on the health system.
they TAT.just will not have it.how many expats have done runners or asked for GO FUND ME. surely the got a CALCALATOR.

Originally Posted by headhunter

THAI DRIVERS who are the biggest burden on the health system.

That depends how you look at it. No Thai gets free treatment if they have been involved in a traffic accident. Hence the reason why the Por Ror Bor insurance is the only compulsory insurance required to drive in Thailand.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

That depends how you look at it. No Thai gets free treatment if they have been involved in a traffic accident. Hence the reason why the Por Ror Bor insurance is the only compulsory insurance required to drive in Thailand.

does por ror bor cover all passengers,i have never looked at the cover till last week[sold my car] but it only covers third party or is it the other way round.
just off topic I found over the past 6yrs.the best car ins.are SYM MON KONG.SMK.i will ask them about health ins.but I would bet they wouldn't cover me with a,
100FT.BARGE POLE.
do por ror bor cover DRUNK DRIVERS PRAG. SONGKRAN is coming up.