Thread: Two Tourists Brutally Murdered on Koh Tao, One Raped: Police Spark Thailand Manhunt

Originally Posted by aging one

"The support for the Myanmar suspects has been strong and vocal, but please do not jump to conclusions until you have considered the evidence from both sides in full," Miller's family said.

Obviously poor Mr Millar is not well versed in the expat forum methods of determining guilt or innocence. Evidence...pfffft.....

Originally Posted by aging one

The suspects' families and legal team say they are innocent

Families and defence lawyers usually do say things like that when one of them is arrested for murder....

Originally Posted by aging one

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us," Witheridge's family said in a statement.

What? they have not relied solely on CSI LA's facebook investigation like everybody else....?

Well, one must assess this and consider whether:

The Metropolitan police have indeed established that the gathering of evidence implicating the two Burmese was consistent with good practice and that its strength demonstrates a prima facie case worthy of prosecution.

or

The Metropolitan police have been duped and have not grasped the extent to which a prosecution in this country can be manipulated to achieve a desired outcome and have made assumptions of competence and integrity because they simply cannot accept any police force could or would act in a manner incongruent with their own professional standards.

Oh well. Those lads are toast, either way, but it seems that the families have absolutely no idea of what justice in this country can entail and if they are looking for some sort of judicial vindication equivalent to what may prevail in the UK then they have been very, very badly informed.

In other circumstances, resting on no more than luck, the tour guide in Chiang Mai who the police attempted to frame for the rape and murder of Kirsty Jones would have been convicted and no doubt executed for the crime.

Cosy middle class parents would be incredulous that justice could be manipulated a la Thai.

Add to that a liaison officer from the FCO urging them not to rock the boat and here we are.

The FCO will be more concerned with trade relations than a couple of hapless holiday makers.

Indeed, the timing alone of these "pronouncements" by the family suggest strongly that it has been deliberately orchestrated by the Foreign Office and one can only assume they have done so, a matter of days before the "trial" begins, as a diplomatic favour to an occasionally beleaguered Thai establishment.

It's a dirty world out there and they don't get much dirtier than the Brits when they want something. I really do feel for the families who have clearly been used as pawns in the game and haven't a clue about anything very much at all.

Game over and all done, bar the shouting. I should imagine they'll be dead by the end of January or thereabouts.

Originally Posted by blue

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Originally Posted by blue

If the Burmese community on the island know something them they should come forward.

A bit difficult when they have had a lifetime of being conditioned by the junta to be in a permanently cowed state of being.

Well that's half the problem , taking immigrants from countries with appalling human rights records, while it looks like a friendly gesture ,
you don't know what kind of damaged people you may be getting .

They should fit in well here then.

What I don't understand is why are these the only two on Koa-Tao being charged with illegally entering the country. Or is it because they are no longer in a position to pay the police.
sep

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Ok. I understand your thinking. I don't agree, but that's of no consequence.

I might add that with all of the corruption here, at least they are trying to do something about it. The Chief of Police and 17 senior police officers were just fired. The former President, and half the current cabinet, are in jail.

Of course everyone big eventually gets pardoned, but at least there's some effort, unlike LOS.

I think it is just a case of the police being pushed out, so the military can take over. The dictator is going nowhere soon and is setting his own up. He doesn't want to rock the boat and get himself ousted from a nice little earner.
sep

Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

BBC are running this story today with this famous pic again...

BBC News - Hannah Witheridge and David Miller murders: Thai court charges pair



The RTP have backed themselves into a situation where they have to continue at all costs, but what eventual cost?



Notice this sentence in the report:
"The indictment was unexpectedly brought forward by three hours, meaning the suspects did not have time to be brought from prison to hear the charges,"
Truly amazing isnt it? so much for human rights... the suspect was not even present in court to hear the accusations.

I just love that photo. For me it says it all. Check out the facial expressions. If only I new how to add word balloons coming from mouths.
sep

Originally Posted by aging one

Latest news I have seen, surprising to say the least.

Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

BANGKOK: -- The families of two Britons murdered in Thailand said evidence against Myanmar migrants accused of the crime is convincing, in statements supportive of a much-criticised police investigation on Friday.


Migrant workers Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun are accused of murdering 24-year-old David Miller and raping and murdering Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the Thai diving resort of Koh Tao in September.


The defendants, both aged 21, are due to enter a plea in the trial on Monday, according to prosecutors on the island of Koh Samui where the case will be heard.


In statements released through Britain's Foreign Office, the victims' families said they had seen strong evidence against the suspects and expressed confidence in the case.


"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us," Witheridge's family said in a statement.


"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."


British detectives travelled to Thailand to review the police investigation into the murders after widespread criticism of blunders such as allowing reporters to trample over the crime scene.


Rights groups also raised concerns over the case after the two suspects retracted confessions they had made to the crime, and said they had been tortured.


On Friday the family of Miller criticised "increasing sensationalism of this story" and said that "speculation" should be suspended until all evidence is made public.


"The support for the Myanmar suspects has been strong and vocal, but please do not jump to conclusions until you have considered the evidence from both sides in full," Miller's family said.


"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."


The suspects' families and legal team say they are innocent and have been made scapegoats of a crime by police keen to find a quick resolution.


The events have further damaged Thailand's image as a tourist haven after months of political protests led to an army coup in May and the imposition of martial law.

If and I do say if this is true then it's a rap then. Turn the light out when you leave.

God bless Koa-Tao and all that die there.
sep

Originally Posted by septimus

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Ok. I understand your thinking. I don't agree, but that's of no consequence.

I might add that with all of the corruption here, at least they are trying to do something about it. The Chief of Police and 17 senior police officers were just fired. The former President, and half the current cabinet, are in jail.

Of course everyone big eventually gets pardoned, but at least there's some effort, unlike LOS.

I think it is just a case of the police being pushed out, so the military can take over. The dictator is going nowhere soon and is setting his own up. He doesn't want to rock the boat and get himself ousted from a nice little earner.
sep

That was in The Philippines, Sep. And Davis lives there, which was why he said "here".

I may be clutching at straws here. This is Hanna's family's report. Posted by ITV Anglia news.


This report only gives praise to the Brit police, not the Thais.


Here is their statement in full:

UK detectives travelled to Thailand last month to “observe and review” the murder case of our precious Daughter Hannah, and also that of David Miller. We would like to thank the officers who travelled to Thailand to review the case and the Royal Thai Police for facilitating their visit.
Since their return we have been able to meet with these officers together with our family liaison officers to learn about the investigation. There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us. We respect the need for such detail not to be shared publically before Royal Thai Police start their trial process.
We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes and want to remind both press and public that they do not have the full facts to report and make comment on at this stage. Current news reporting is causing undue distress to our family.
We ask as a family, as we have throughout, that we are afforded privacy and that Hannah and David are afforded their dignity during this time of immense pain and difficulty.
Our thoughts, as always, are with the Miller family. Together we stand united and focused on seeing a fair and transparent trial process to bring about justice for our beautiful children.

– The family of Hannah Witheridge


The family of David Miller say they are united in their grief with the Witheridge family and also back the police investigation

Last updated Fri 5 Dec 2014
sep

http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/updat...investigation/

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Originally Posted by septimus

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Ok. I understand your thinking. I don't agree, but that's of no consequence.

I might add that with all of the corruption here, at least they are trying to do something about it. The Chief of Police and 17 senior police officers were just fired. The former President, and half the current cabinet, are in jail.

Of course everyone big eventually gets pardoned, but at least there's some effort, unlike LOS.

I think it is just a case of the police being pushed out, so the military can take over. The dictator is going nowhere soon and is setting his own up. He doesn't want to rock the boat and get himself ousted from a nice little earner.
sep

That was in The Philippines, Sep. And Davis lives there, which was why he said "here".

Ah,
OK thanks for putting me right on that one.
sep

Originally Posted by septimus

I may be clutching at straws here. This is Hanna's family's report. Posted by ITV Anglia news.


This report only gives praise to the Brit police, not the Thais.


Here is their statement in full:

UK detectives travelled to Thailand last month to “observe and review” the murder case of our precious Daughter Hannah, and also that of David Miller. We would like to thank the officers who travelled to Thailand to review the case and the Royal Thai Police for facilitating their visit.
Since their return we have been able to meet with these officers together with our family liaison officers to learn about the investigation. There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us. We respect the need for such detail not to be shared publically before Royal Thai Police start their trial process.
We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes and want to remind both press and public that they do not have the full facts to report and make comment on at this stage. Current news reporting is causing undue distress to our family.
We ask as a family, as we have throughout, that we are afforded privacy and that Hannah and David are afforded their dignity during this time of immense pain and difficulty.
Our thoughts, as always, are with the Miller family. Together we stand united and focused on seeing a fair and transparent trial process to bring about justice for our beautiful children.

– The family of Hannah Witheridge


The family of David Miller say they are united in their grief with the Witheridge family and also back the police investigation

Last updated Fri 5 Dec 2014
sep

The families of Hannah Witheridge and David Millerback back police investigation | Anglia - ITV News

It doesn't praise anyone.
It does say they are confident in the work done and that the press, which is entirely of the "They didn't do it" kind is causing them distress.

Doing some head scratching, but the fat lady has not sung yet. One thing keeps gnawing at me though..... Why were those two mafia thugs cornering Sean and saying they were going to hang him?

mc Anna looks a bit of an arsehole , perhaps they had had enough of his drunken mouth.

It was there way of telling him to leave their island ?

If you are really going to kill someone why give them notice ..

Originally Posted by thailazer

Doing some head scratching, but the fat lady has not sung yet. One thing keeps gnawing at me though..... Why were those two mafia thugs cornering Sean and saying they were going to hang him?

Because he was a bit of a cnut? Only got his word about what was said.

Originally Posted by septimus

Originally Posted by YOrlov

It is normal procedure for prosecutors to not disclose a case until the plea of not guilty is entered, which has not occurred yet.
It would be a bit counter productive justice-wise for the accused to know exactly what evidence is against him before making a decision on a plea.

( Not defending the cops, I agree the boys are being railroaded, just trying to be balanced in criticism of this case.)

In the real world, by law the prosecution must disclose their case including witness statements not only to the court but also to the defense.
sep

Absolutely, just not before a plea is entered, which is scheduled to happen tomorrow Monday December 8.


As for the family statements, they thank and praise the UK authorities not the Thai police, and ask for speculation to end so the trial can commence. I don't read anything telling me they are now fully convinced the Myanmar lads did it.

I would concur the FO does not have their interests at heart and would be telling them to not make waves, be patient, etc. We could only hope they have read enough about the Kirsty Jones case to take such advise as the urgings of a government entity tasked with trade, not justice.

Re YOrlov.
I agree with you entirely on this.
It would be good if the UK detectives could give some much needed info as to who the REAL culprits are, just so people are not railroaded into believing the RTP version of events.
I hope the truth will eventually come out,,,,, for the lads sake !!

Originally Posted by aging one

"The support for the Myanmar suspects has been strong and vocal, but please do not jump to conclusions until you have considered the evidence from both sides in full," Miller's family said.


"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."

I'm sorry, but this would suggest otherwise.

Originally Posted by prawnograph

Police question Christopher Ware, who shared a room with David Miller

Thai Police Find Sperm on Both Koh Tao Bodies, Say Reports
Wednesday, September 17, 2014

PHUKET: Sperm has been found during autopsies on both the bodies of Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, according to Thai media reports today.

The sperm was mixed with sand, according to Khao Sod newspaper. It was found in Miller's anus and Hannah Witheridge's vagina, the newspaper reported.

Khao Sod also carried photographs of a bloodstained pair of pants surprisingly found by police in the luggage of David Miller.

Christopher Ware, a British man who was sharing a room at bungalows on the Thai holiday island of Koh Tao with Miller, is now being questioned at length by police about his relationship with Miller and Hannah Witheridge.

Just wondering...iis it still current information that there was sperm in Miller's anus ? I'd forgotten about that.

Also, this Ware character looks a bit odd to me, and the scrape on his hand also looks a bit suspicious, despite his claim that it hapened previous to the murders.

The Ware chap was exonerated from the hamfisted and idiotic speculations of the police and was whisked out of the country by the embassy before the idiots had time to change their deranged minds. The whole homo, rage, sperm in the anus thing was total bollox right from the outset and marked the low point of the investigation when everyone realised what a shambles it was going to be.

If you were detained by a Thai copper working to a script from some half-arsed, B Hollywood movie you too would probably sport an expression of bemused fear, particularly when you have been told your mates had been slaughtered and it dawns on you these coppers are figuring on how to make you fit the crime.

Ware's been done already. Forget it.

Yes...bemused fear. Well-described. But one needs to keep all possibilities in one's mind.

If ever an outfit were deserving of the title, "The Filth", it would undoubtedly be held by the Thai BIB.

Originally Posted by Lostandfound

The FCO will be more concerned with trade relations than a couple of hapless holiday makers.

Pretty much. Money/trade always trumps the interest of actually caring about a countries nationals abroad...

I'll predict at least one of the two suspects will crack and plead guilty; if not this Monday then very soon .

When you know you have no chance of acquittal, irrespective of the evidence, from a charge which almost certainly in this case carries the death penalty and a deal whereby a plea of guilty will receive a custodial sentence is offered, what would you do Blue?