Thread: Two Tourists Brutally Murdered on Koh Tao, One Raped: Police Spark Thailand Manhunt

Good headline there. Good to see a Thailand-based news source telling it like it is.

Originally Posted by Bogon

Pleading guilty and being charged for possessing indecent images of children makes him a peadophile in my books.

Close enough to put them at the same level.

Originally Posted by Gazza

LD, do you mean Sean McAnna, the Scottish guy?

Doubt if he'll want any more time in the spotlight being a paedo and all.

Oops...yes (very tired last night; that was just before I crashed).

Irresistable force meets immoveable object ? Something's gotta pop.

DNA vs Soppy immigrant supporting liberals

Under Thai law, the 900-page police report, upon which the prosecutors will base their case, will not be disclosed to the defense team until the trial commences. Instead, the defense lawyers will be given a summary containing a list of names and addresses of witnesses as well as a cursory inventory of evidence.

According to Felicity Gerry QC, a prominent British defense lawyer specializing in high-profile sexual-assault cases, “Not to have any access until the day of trial can’t possibly be fair.”

In many other jurisdictions, including the U.S. and U.K., as soon as charges are brought the defense has access to all evidence, including witness statements, physical exhibits and expert testimony. This allows lawyers to take instructions from their clients and call their own experts to refute any testimony relied upon by the prosecution.

“Sometimes the analysis takes time,” says Gerry, citing the checking of telephone records or the disputing of forensic conclusions. “My concern would be it’s all far too rushed and unfair to the defense.”

The arrival of British police observers has not helped. A team from the U.K., including a senior homicide detective and crime scene analyst, was dispatched to Thailand early last month in order to assist in the investigation. However, they spent only two hours on Koh Tao after arriving by helicopter and did not meet with either the accused or their legal team. Their findings have still not been released.

“You’d expect the Thai police to welcome the additional assistance,” says Gerry. “My suspicion is that [the British police have] been limited regarding what they’ve been allowed to do.”

Meanwhile, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, who face a death sentence if convicted, stay cut off from their families. “They are in good spirits but really miss their parents,” says Hall, who has met with the suspects three times each week since they were arrested.

Two British families have already been devastated by the Koh Tao killings. The Thai authorities must now ensure two Burmese families don’t needlessly experience similar anguish.

Koh Tao Murders: Burmese Suspects Face Dubious Trial

A lawyer for two Myanmar migrants accused of murdering a pair of British holidaymakers on Thursday said key witnesses are too afraid to come forward, hampering his clients' defence as they prepare to enter a plea.


Undated images received from Britain's Foreign and Commonwealth Office shows British students, Hannah Witheridge (left) and David Miller who were killed while on holiday in Thailand.

The men stand accused of murdering David Miller, 24, and raping and murdering Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the Thai diving resort of Koh Tao on Sept 15.

Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, both migrant workers aged 21, were formally indicted for trial on Thursday and are due to enter a plea on Monday, according to prosecutors on nearby Koh Samui, where the case will be heard.

"The court will ask the defendants whether they confess or deny the charges," chief prosecutor Paiboon Archavanuntakun told AFP.

The pair -- who did not appear in court on Thursday -- are also accused of battery and illegal entry to Thailand, among other charges, he added.

They were arrested in October after police said they had found the men's DNA on Witheridge's body and that they had admitted to the crimes.

But Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo later retracted their confessions, alleging they were obtained under duress.

Their families and legal team have also protested their innocence, saying the men have been made scapegoats by a police force desperate for a quick conclusion to a crime which raised fears over tourist safety in the kingdom.

One of the two men's lawyers told AFP his clients vulnerable immigrant status meant witnesses were scared of testifying or willing to come to his defence.

"This case is not fair... they were migrant workers so witnesses do not dare to testify (for the defence)," Nakhon Chomphuchat, head of their Thai legal team, told AFP.

"We have many disadvantages... we still have not seen the prosecutors' evidence, we just have to fight as best as we can," he added.

On Tuesday the defendants submitted a letter to the court urging witnesses to come forward to help clear their name.

Migrant workers, particularly from neighbouring Myanmar and Cambodia, are often accused of crimes in the kingdom.

Rights groups say they lack fair access to Thailand's already murky legal system.

Questions over the police probe prompted British Prime Minister David Cameron to urge his Thai counterpart, Prayut Chan-O-Cha, to allow Scotland Yard detectives to review the Thai case.

A team of British detectives visited Thailand in November but are yet to reveal their findings.

On Thursday the father of Wai Phyo repeated his belief in his son's innocence.

"Our son is not a murderer, but he has been locked up like a criminal," he told AFP in Myanmar's commercial capital, Yangon.

"I want the Thai government to capture the real criminal. Knowing my son is in jail makes me suffer terribly. If I could swap with him I would," he added.

The grisly murders delivered a fresh blow to the kingdom's image as a tourist haven after months of political protests that ended in May's army coup.

Martial law is still in place across the country, and tourist arrivals have eased off on last year.
Koh Tao witnesses 'scared to testify' | Bangkok Post: news

Why is one not surprised that there is no duty of disclosure to the defence of the prosecution's evidence. A trial in these circumstances is quite redundant.

Third world justice for third world victims.

The Thai establishment simply haven't a clue as to what a meaningful rule of law comprises. It really is quite depressing. I do hope the British ambassador has indicated his dissatisfaction at the process.

It is normal procedure for prosecutors to not disclose a case until the plea of not guilty is entered, which has not occurred yet.
It would be a bit counter productive justice-wise for the accused to know exactly what evidence is against him before making a decision on a plea.

( Not defending the cops, I agree the boys are being railroaded, just trying to be balanced in criticism of this case.)

Err, how can you decide which way to plead if you don't know the evidence against you?

Or are you specifically referring to third world justice?

Wai's father says "I want the Thai government to capture the real criminal."

Seems like the whole world except for the Thai authorities want that.

Here is a current article which makes Filipino police, hence Thai police, look rather bad in international eyes regarding torture :



Torture of suspected criminals by police in the Philippines has thrived under the administration of President Benigno Aquino, human rights monitor Amnesty International said.
Dozens of beatings, rapes and electrocutions are being recorded by the country's human rights commission every year, with many other cases going unreported, Amnesty secretary general Salil Shetty told reporters.
"Torture by the police is very widespread and routine," Shetty said.


https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/...n-philippines/

Originally Posted by YOrlov

It is normal procedure for prosecutors to not disclose a case until the plea of not guilty is entered, which has not occurred yet.
It would be a bit counter productive justice-wise for the accused to know exactly what evidence is against him before making a decision on a plea.

( Not defending the cops, I agree the boys are being railroaded, just trying to be balanced in criticism of this case.)

In the real world, by law the prosecution must disclose their case including witness statements not only to the court but also to the defense.
sep

Additionally, in many systems, including the UK, the prosecution are under an obligation to tender any evidence to the defence in their possession upon which they do not intend to rely at Court but was nevertheless gathered in the course of the investigation.

The point is Orlov, trials in countries with a functioning judicial system are not a game in which the prosecution get to spring surprises on the defence and score a win by sleight of hand. They are a search for the truth and an examination of all the facts which are tested according to rules of evidence before an experienced trial judge with integrity.

Samui will doubtless be an interesting experience if only to educate those currently languishing in total ignorance as to the system here.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Here is a current article which makes Filipino police, hence Thai police, look rather bad in international eyes regarding torture :

Not quite following you. How does Filipino cops looking bad translate to "hence Thai police". I believe they're two different countries, with separate police forces.

Due to this case, already many international eyes are now on Thailand. People in other countries tend to lump all Asian countries together as having the same mentality.

Just pointing out therefore those people overseas who are following this case are now going to be even more convinced that the confessions were tortured out of those Burmese guys.

Not that this will affect the case itself.

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Err, how can you decide which way to plead if you don't know the evidence against you?

Well the 2 illegal immigrants know if they did it or didn't do it , so why should they get to see how strong the prosecutors case is before they enter a plea ?
In fact it sounds like a good procedure to stop people playing the system.

Maybe they were so drunk they cannot remember, in which case perhaps it 's time they manned up and said so to try to help solve the case .

Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

A lawyer for two Myanmar migrants accused of murdering a pair of British holidaymakers on Thursday said are too afraid to come forward, hampering his clients' defence as they prepare to enter a plea.

key witnesses ? and they haven't come forward ?

Then they are no better than anyone else on the island who just wants the pesky case to go away.
Shame on them , if they really exist ...

Maybe just another layer in the defense case - playing the poor downtrodden illegal immigrant violin card .
looks like the team has been studying western tactics closely .

If the Burmese community on the island know something them they should come forward.

Ok. I understand your thinking. I don't agree, but that's of no consequence.

I might add that with all of the corruption here, at least they are trying to do something about it. The Chief of Police and 17 senior police officers were just fired. The former President, and half the current cabinet, are in jail.

Of course everyone big eventually gets pardoned, but at least there's some effort, unlike LOS.

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

The former President, and half the current cabinet, are in jail.

Pretty scandalous. There must have been absolutely frantic gossip locally !

Originally Posted by blue

If the Burmese community on the island know something them they should come forward.

A bit difficult when they have had a lifetime of being conditioned by the junta to be in a permanently cowed state of being.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Originally Posted by blue

If the Burmese community on the island know something them they should come forward.

A bit difficult when they have had a lifetime of being conditioned by the junta to be in a permanently cowed state of being.

Well that's half the problem , taking immigrants from countries with appalling human rights records, while it looks like a friendly gesture ,
you don't know what kind of damaged people you may be getting .

Originally Posted by blue

Well that's half the problem , taking immigrants from countries with appalling human rights records, while it looks like a friendly gesture ,
you don't know what kind of damaged people you may be getting .

Friendly gesture...my arse. They do it for cheap labour!

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

Originally Posted by blue

Well that's half the problem , taking immigrants from countries with appalling human rights records, while it looks like a friendly gesture ,
you don't know what kind of damaged people you may be getting .

Friendly gesture...my arse. They do it for cheap labour!

^ +1

Sometimes the 'friendly gesture' is to enslave immigrants on Thai fishing vessels. More than a few Burmese have ended up in that trap

Thailand can be great- until you have a problem...

Originally Posted by YOrlov

It is normal procedure for prosecutors to not disclose a case until the plea of not guilty is entered, which has not occurred yet.
It would be a bit counter productive justice-wise for the accused to know exactly what evidence is against him before making a decision on a plea.

( Not defending the cops, I agree the boys are being railroaded, just trying to be balanced in criticism of this case.)

Total BS. This is not normal practice where I come from. How can you defend accusations when you have not been given aĺl the evidence against you?

Latest news I have seen, surprising to say the least.

Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

BANGKOK: -- The families of two Britons murdered in Thailand said evidence against Myanmar migrants accused of the crime is convincing, in statements supportive of a much-criticised police investigation on Friday.


Migrant workers Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun are accused of murdering 24-year-old David Miller and raping and murdering Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the Thai diving resort of Koh Tao in September.


The defendants, both aged 21, are due to enter a plea in the trial on Monday, according to prosecutors on the island of Koh Samui where the case will be heard.


In statements released through Britain's Foreign Office, the victims' families said they had seen strong evidence against the suspects and expressed confidence in the case.


"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us," Witheridge's family said in a statement.


"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."


British detectives travelled to Thailand to review the police investigation into the murders after widespread criticism of blunders such as allowing reporters to trample over the crime scene.


Rights groups also raised concerns over the case after the two suspects retracted confessions they had made to the crime, and said they had been tortured.


On Friday the family of Miller criticised "increasing sensationalism of this story" and said that "speculation" should be suspended until all evidence is made public.


"The support for the Myanmar suspects has been strong and vocal, but please do not jump to conclusions until you have considered the evidence from both sides in full," Miller's family said.


"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."


The suspects' families and legal team say they are innocent and have been made scapegoats of a crime by police keen to find a quick resolution.


The events have further damaged Thailand's image as a tourist haven after months of political protests led to an army coup in May and the imposition of martial law.