Thread: Coup 2014 !!!! : Military 'takes control' in Thailand

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Terry live in bandit country, land border Lao, Emerald triangle, drug smugglers, poachers, illegal logging etc. fire fights in the jungle, not Pattaya. No police only soldiers, village is safe, rest of the place is lawless.

Talk it up Jim. I like your posts and all but c'mon man. You're always going on about how you leave in this kind of lawless no mans land. I been up your way and it's not the wild west dude. The bandits left years ago. There's a bit of logging going on but its hardly a war zone like you make it sound.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Do you think this coup is because of the rice scheme, 9999? That is my point, it is not.

No, my point is that for a resident expert on the plight of the red shirts, I'd have thought you'd know a bit more about the rice pledge and its implications.

So if the army has no interest in paying the farmers, why are they paying them tomorrow? I mean it at least must be in their best interests to help them to serve their own ends (propaganda) ... so what about the reds? Was the rice pledge not propaganda vote buying from the reds? Why are the army bad for coming through on a bribe for the masses that the reds tried to deliver on and failed?

Your line here is futile dude.

So BB, if you're so passionate about this, enough so to fly in the face of Thai law to voice your opinion, why have you not 'read up on' the rice disaster???

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Intelligent debate is rather lost in the first line...

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

No, I'm aware of it and the basic details, I have not read up in detail.

Sort of sums it up really.

Originally Posted by 9999

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Firstly, the rice scheme is not the reason for the coup; the army have no interest in helping the farmers or anyone else outside of their group.

You're losing it Betty. Before you were saying you knew nothing about the rice pledge. Now you're telling us all about it. Funny actually, with all the red rhetoric you keep on with, that you would not know much about the rice scheme. If the army have no interest in paying off the farmers then why do they start getting paid as of tomorrow???

Gosh it's so easy to come up with that money. So fast when Thailand is in so much trouble. Pathetic. The truth will never be know with the yellow-gloved hands all over everything once again.

Originally Posted by Moonraker

Are you fucking serious? Is it Suthep's fault that the rice is sitting unsold and rotting in barns around the country?

Jesus mate,

The rice was sitting rotting for ages before this shit kicked off, you are spot on with that.

Once again the poster is pushing shit up hill posting that bolliks.

Real mad shit innit.

Originally Posted by Merrimack

Gosh it's so easy to come up with that money. So fast when Thailand is in so much trouble. Pathetic. The truth will never be know with the yellow-gloved hands all over everything once again.

Insanity rules. My word - Take your red specs off, stop listening to the words of the local Red village chief, and see the facts. insane.

Interesting thread. Boo seems to be ploughing a lonely furrow though.

I suppose the question here is :what price democracy?

Boo argues from a position that nothing, simply nothing is more important than democracy.

He bolsters that by downplaying the corruption, and harping on about the democratic process and its usurpation by the evil padites.

Others seem more "pragmatic". Me? Also a pragmatist. Democracy is great, but sometimes, sometimes, it is simply more expensive than it is worth.

Originally Posted by Merrimack

Gosh it's so easy to come up with that money. So fast when Thailand is in so much trouble. Pathetic. The truth will never be know with the yellow-gloved hands all over everything once again.

Wait a sec. Betty is accusing the army / reds / establishment / w/e of using the rice pledge as a political tool. He thinks they should have bailed out the reds while they were in govt because they could have.

So what was the rice pledge all about? If it was not initially a political tool by the reds, that blew up in their face, then I'd like to know what you guys think it was.

And now the army are doing the right thing by paying the farmers, and ofc its used against them. Cant win with these people. at calling out the army for using the rice pledge to look like saviours when the reds were trying (and failed) to do the exact same thing.

This thread reads like an election campaign voicing all the election participants different points of view, to win over joe publics vote.

Great I've made my mind up who I will vote for and now go to vote.............oh!

BettyBoo, there are a lot of posters I like to read but you are the one I think makes a good post and I agree with your words on this thread.

Originally Posted by 9999

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Do you think this coup is because of the rice scheme, 9999? That is my point, it is not.

No, my point is that for a resident expert on the plight of the red shirts, I'd have thought you'd know a bit more about the rice pledge and its implications.

So if the army has no interest in paying the farmers, why are they paying them tomorrow? I mean it at least must be in their best interests to help them to serve their own ends (propaganda) ... so what about the reds? Was the rice pledge not propaganda vote buying from the reds? Why are the army bad for coming through on a bribe for the masses that the reds tried to deliver on and failed?

Your line here is futile dude.

So BB, if you're so passionate about this, enough so to fly in the face of Thai law to voice your opinion, why have you not 'read up on' the rice disaster???

I am not an expert on the redshirt movement, why would I be?

PT as a political party did a pretty bad job of the rich scheme. The army are not a political party, they are an instrument of government. Thus, your basic argument is nonsensical. I agree that PT are no good, but they were voted in, and it is election time, so they can be voted out again - easy.

9999, I have read the basic details of the rice scheme, but have not followed the ongoing mess and cannot follow every detail of every part of Thai politics. I probably know as much about the rice scheme as 50% or more of the posters in this thread - when I say I haven't read up about something, I mean that I have not spent hours and gotten a full or near to full understanding. I suspect, for many on this thread, that knowing about and reading up is linked to a single source article. My reply was to Nidhogg, who I suspect when he says he has read up on something, he really has and spent considerable time doing so, thus my answer within the context of his post. With all the vitriol about this scheme, maybe my reading has been lacking, and I will spend some time on it over the coming week.

But, this coup is not about the rice pledge.

Originally Posted by Merrimack

Originally Posted by terry57

Originally Posted by Moonraker

Are you fucking serious? Is it Suthep's fault that the rice is sitting unsold and rotting in barns around the country?

Jesus mate,

The rice was sitting rotting for ages before this shit kicked off, you are spot on with that.

Once again the poster is pushing shit up hill posting that bolliks.

Real mad shit innit.

Your bs is as good as anyone's Terry. You've got the military on your side to prove your truths.

.: Thai Rice Exporters Association :: Thailand :.

So then rice has been sold? What happened to the money?

Originally Posted by Moonraker

Originally Posted by Merrimack

Are you going to blame Yingluck's government for your business problems?

Too fucking right I am, why wouldn't I? She and her cronies are part of the problem after all, along with Suthep et al.

Everyone is part of the problem, as is the traditional Thai mindset, but right now it's the nice people with guns imposing their solution.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

But, this coup is not about the rice pledge.

You're right, the Coup is not about the rich pledge. But the rice pledge does highlight the incompetence/greed of the ousted government and it is that which resulted in a coup being necessary.

^^ Agreed, the man with the guns sets the agenda

Originally Posted by 9999

Originally Posted by Merrimack

Gosh it's so easy to come up with that money. So fast when Thailand is in so much trouble. Pathetic. The truth will never be know with the yellow-gloved hands all over everything once again.

Wait a sec. Betty is accusing the army / reds / establishment / w/e of using the rice pledge as a political tool. He thinks they should have bailed out the reds while they were in govt because they could have.

So what was the rice pledge all about? If it was not initially a political tool by the reds, that blew up in their face, then I'd like to know what you guys think it was.

And now the army are doing the right thing by paying the farmers, and ofc its used against them. Cant win with these people. at calling out the army for using the rice pledge to look like saviours when the reds were trying (and failed) to do the exact same thing.

Why was it so hard for Yingluck's government to do anything? No money or offices closed and courts tying her hands. Now the military can pay instantly. Total Bullshit. I'm glad they are paying but if the yellow scum in the streets and the courts let the government do their job, the problems wouldn't be there. You always think there is this great crime involved. Do you think Yingluck would do something that would keep her from her family, her son? You people are warped and stupid. We are back to the yellow abusers controlling the government and creating whatever truths they want. It's the truth. Say all the shit you want but right now yellow slim is seeping into all the government orifices and it will spill out yellow lies once again.

Originally Posted by Moonraker

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

But, this coup is not about the rice pledge.

You're right, the Coup is not about the rich pledge. But the rice pledge does highlight the incompetence/greed of the ousted government and it is that which resulted in a coup being necessary.

Would a democrat government been couped in the same circumstances?

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Originally Posted by thegent

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

^ that's for the electorate to decide, not you and your hyperbole or suthep who is equally as corrupt as any politician in Thailand, nor the junta...

Nice effort in turning this coup thread into a "But, Thaksin..." thread.

And deny you the opportunity to post more simplistic,banal gibberish?

Heaven forbid.

Perhaps to you, but it's the basic premise for most of the world, including Thailand.

Thais want to vote, suthep, the dems and the army stopped that opportunity. A failure of the rice scheme, and the corruption within it, seem like good reasons for voters to look elsewhere, so a shame that suthep and abhisit didn't lead their party towards a winning election by developing policies and making a stand against corruption either as an election promise or when they were last in power. If the dems had done their job as an opposition then they would likely be in power now and all this nonsense would have been avoided... The fact remains that suthep and abhisit along with the rest of the PADites and dems have NEVER developed a party with policies that was against corruption - they have had every opportunity since 2006, and they were in power for a couple of years and had the opportunity to lead the way into reforms - they did not...

I would be very happy to see PT superseded, but that means that the dems, PADites and military have to move forward too. This coup, the hammer upon free speech, the arrests and detentions, are a backwards step.

Fair enough, but I don't think either of these two coups were intended to rid the country of corruption or to protect the democratic process.

On the contrary, both were to do the precise opposite, restore the pre-Thaksin regime with the people remaining ignorant and subservient to the same thieves and looters.

The cunning plan is they're marketing it as 'legal'.

Originally Posted by Dandyhole

Originally Posted by Moonraker

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

But, this coup is not about the rice pledge.

You're right, the Coup is not about the rich pledge. But the rice pledge does highlight the incompetence/greed of the ousted government and it is that which resulted in a coup being necessary.

Would a democrat government been couped in the same circumstances?

Perhaps not.

The democrats were not in government though, so what's your point?

And for the record I don;t think the dems come out of this smelling of roses. If the opposition wasn't so weak we may not be in this mess.

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Boo argues from a position that nothing, simply nothing is more important than democracy.

I am an idealist, that is true. I am willing to justify an assault on democracy if it moves society forward; by that, I mean more opportunity for everyone, better education and open dialog, increased accountability and transparency, etc. What I am saying is, neither the dems time in government, the PADites nor this army group have any intention or showed any intention at any time of doing that. If they had, then maybe I would support them. If suthep was an honest career politician who was seeking to stop corruption then I might support him. If abhisit's government had made a start on improving the mechanisms of governance when they were in power then maybe I would support the dems. If the army, this group now, had developed a constitution that empowers the people, develops education, etc, then I would support them.

How quickly you forget, abhisit's government, the coup government too, closed down social dialog, cut back on education, were highly corrupt and changed the political system solely for their benefit...

Originally Posted by 9999

Wait a sec. Betty is accusing the army / reds / establishment / w/e of using the rice pledge as a political tool. He thinks they should have bailed out the reds while they were in govt because they could have.

That is not the case. You are taking my words from one post and using them in a different argument with a different meaning and purpose. I don't think they should 'bail out' anybody - I think they should do their duty as a department which is under the control of government. At any time they could have stopped suthep and his mob, helping the economy, that's what they should have done, but they acted politically instead, so they encouraged and supported suthep's demonstrations. The army are part of a larger group who have great power and stopped the government from using banks (you may remember the case a few months ago) to pay the farmers; the same banks that are now paying the farmers - it is not a new idea, it was proposed by PT months ago.

Originally Posted by Merrimack

You people are warped and stupid.

Cheers for that. Get back to my crayons and comics shall I?

TD member have their reasons for supporting who they support. It really has nothing to do with facts or any common right. Some people make money from the yellows, some from the reds, some choose Thai Buddhism and royality and others choose human rights and dignity. And there are other reasons, some government benefit farang meth addict and others don't. Some government oppress and keep the pervs happy with hookers. Some farangs just pick a group a friends and go with that group. No matter what evidence you put here no one is going to believe your side. This is like abortion to many. They've made their choice and that's it right or wrong or fact or fiction. And some don't care at all and just want to be guests in a strange land. Whatever the case, you as a farang are a nobody because you are not Thai so you all can fuck off. Well, that's what a Thai with a western upbringing would say.

Originally Posted by Merrimack

Why was it so hard for Yingluck's government to do anything? No money or offices closed and courts tying her hands. Now the military can pay instantly.

The Army used the cash that was being put aside to construct useless unwanted infrastructure projects in the boonies whose sole purpose was to line the pockets of the red village chiefs in reward for their obedience.

Lots of cash about, but your beloved yingluck was going to spend it else where with no concern for the farmers topping themselves and starving.