Thread: Amnesty for Former TRT Executives?

^^ As per your last sentence, it's easy to pick many of these examples on every side because that's what the current society (since the Rama7 kick out) gives you; it is designed that way.

Now, where we differ is that I believe that the errosion, to some extent, of this system is the reason why MrT was kicked out. Now we see that the army and bluebloods have put themselves back to the position they were in before MrT became a serious rival due to his populous mandate; something that had never happened before and is certainly not supported by certain instituitions...

It's not the political scumbags that I worry about. Under a different set of circumstances some of these Dems could've done a good job, but they chose to go the easy root and stick with the army. The country, as all countries will do, has changed, a middle class is developing sizeably (not too massive yet...) and information and education have made the Somchais realise they can have part of the pie too, they don't need to be at the bottom of a patriachal system bowing and scraping to anyone in a Benz...

The politicians will evolve with the times, all parties, all sorts, they will move with democracy as the populous demands.

But, the army and bluebloods will hold back the tide forever, if they are able, which of course, they will not be. So, it's just a matter of time before either:
a) the army and bluebloods step down (history says this is rare).
b) the populous claim democracy (or any word they choose) for themselves.

The only thing keeping the Dems in power is army guns, that is clear.

MrT could keep power without one army bullet or the threat there of... Which is exactly what the army and bluebloods do not want; they do nothing and have done nothing for decades, except take all the money and power; they actually presume it is their divine right! They refuse to allow this to change, but they are supersticous, so they are very worried about the immediate future...

I hated MrT. The fact remains that the country was very very much more democratic under him then either before or after. If you think that the current emergency laws, the establishment of CRES and ISOC are irrelevent and that Abhisit is a nice guy, just give him a chance, then, we will struggle to agree on anything I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Personally, I'm not shocked by any of it. I'm surprised that you are, as a long term resident.

I'm shocked that educated people accept junta rule, mass murder and errosion of established governance in preference of an emergency state controlled by the army; ISOC and CRES.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

I hated MrT. The fact remains that the country was very very much more democratic under him

make no mistake about it, you have no fucking idea what Democracy means nutter,

may I remind you that you are a conservative and a proud BNP supporter ?

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

I'm shocked that educated people accept junta rule, mass murder and errosion of established governance in preference of an emergency state controlled by the army; ISOC and CRES.

You are talking about farangs, not the local people I suppose. I concur.

I know you enjoy this line, Papillion, & you've done well to find something that irritates me, but I'll add, again, in case any normal people read this threa, that I have no time for any ignorant social elements such as the BNP.

As far as our mutual understandings of politics goes, folk may well agree or disagree with me, that's normal, but I'm a standard centre type chap. You, on the other hand, have a very unusual sense/understanding of common political terms.

Let me ask you a few questions, Papillion: which would you consider to be a facist group?

a) ISOC.
b) UDD.

Which would you consider to be more democratic in the current political situation:

a) hold an election.
b) keep the emergency decree in place for at least the next 12 months.

What do you think is the best democratic option for the Thai people?

a) Reconcilliation by all parties.
b) crushing of all the red shirt supporters.

How do you feel about the last Thai military coup?

a) They are never a solution, the last one was a disaster.
b) The last one was the correct, and has served the country well.

I'd answer 'a' to all these questions. How about you?

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

3. That the PAD cases have been delayed....hardly a surprise....

Strontium Dog, I don't want to speak for BettyBoo but it seems to me that if this not a surprise then you must agree with the analysis that this is a fundamentally lawless government with a pliant judiciary.

Or maybe I'm just quite naive and stupid. The coup surprised me. I thought all that stuff was supposed to be over. Especially as Sondhi calculatedly and quite deliberately lied and declared that no coup was possible anymore since Thailand was a democracy and that sort of thing was all in the past. We know now that the coup was in the planning stages when he said that. It surprised me that the PAD were allowed to take over Phuket and Krabi airports, it surprised me when they were allowed to take over and occupy Parliament, it surprised me when the red carpet was laid for their entry into the airport and when the military leaders rather than following the government's orders to take back the airport , went on TV to ask the government to resign. It surprised me when the court more or less gave the PAD the OK for their airport occupation by removing the government. It surprised me when the PAD weren't charged with terrorism. It surprises me a little bit less at each delay in the petty misdemeanours the PAD is now facing. How many adjournments now? Nine? Ten ? Twelve?

But given the extreme laxity of the treatment one side of politics got, it surprised me a lot when the government sent in troops firing real bullets at the demonstrators on April 10. It surprised me that the government denied the army was firing real bullets at demonstrators until the evidence was undeniable and being reported everywhere. The grenade attack by the men in black that took out Col. Romklao and his headquarters surprised me too.

It surprised me when a sniper took out Sae Daeng in full view of the world. It surprised me again when the army went in with all guns blazing in May and it surprised me even more that according to everything I see from the government and army they were not responsible for any deaths. Or any injuries.

It doesn't surprise me that all sorts of resistance to these never ending surprises are taking place: stupid, hopeless criminal ones like the Nonthaburi bombing (although i am prepared for surprises about that) and intelligent, hopeful campaigns like those of Sombat.

I've been in Thailand for ten years. I'm still capable of being surprised in good ways and bad ways.

Here's a suggestion for the TAT. Drop Amazing Thailand and go with Thailand, Land of Surprises.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Personally, I'm not shocked by any of it. I'm surprised that you are, as a long term resident.

I'm shocked that educated people accept junta rule, mass murder and errosion of established governance in preference of an emergency state controlled by the army; ISOC and CRES.

So....you might be suggesting that there really isn't much difference from any such educated-class to the common peasantry? As a high, formal, and proper education shouldn't guarantee such astute observations {or connections}. Frankly, the opposite might be a truer form. An indoctrinated and principled education has a way of lending itself to stayed stigma and models of established convention....some of the most commonly connected people I know, aren't highly educated. And those who are, usually are full of themselves and the repetitive mantra that seems to be seeded firmly.

^ 'educated people' refered to SD in the context of this thread (a bit ambiguous I admit) rather than a larger proportional of folk.

I don't disagree with what you say. The yellow idea that they are smart and the red peasants are stupid, quickly becomes untenable when you have a discusion with them and find that the Sirriraj doctors are rather politically naive compared to the taxi drivers...

Green on the way Tomta.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Personally, I'm not shocked by any of it. I'm surprised that you are, as a long term resident.

I'm shocked that educated people accept junta rule, mass murder and errosion of established governance in preference of an emergency state controlled by the army; ISOC and CRES.

It's the supposedly educated people who are the ones running the show....that may be the problem...

why would peasants need to meddle with the politics of Bangkok ? unless they were paid for it ? this is the biggest contradiction of all

^^ Believe it or not SD (and want it or not) - a green to you on this one.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

I'd answer 'a' to all these questions. How about you?

your questions are as dumb as you are. Stop playing political analyst, you have a disconnect between reality and fiction, so it's not working.

You could do the DrB way, read 19th century books about Thailand to predict the future, or better, read tea leaves like he does to understand current Thai politics.

Democrats offer amnesty plan
25/06/2011

Would repeal political bans for more than 200

The Democrat Party has jumped on the reconciliation bandwagon and offered to grant amnesty to those serving political bans.

Secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban admitted yesterday that his party planned to arrange for an amnesty for more than 200 people who are currently banned from politics for five years for violation of the election law.

He was referring to 111 former executives of the defunct Thai Rak Thai Party and 109 former members of the disbanded People Power Party, the Chart Thai Party and the Matchimathipataya Party.

The former Thai Rak Thai members have been banned since 2007 and the others since 2008.

Some of those under the ban have been key supporters of new parties, including Newin Chidchob of Bhumjaithai, Banharn Silpa-archa of Chartthaipattana and Suwat Liptapanlop of Chart Pattana Puea Pandin.

Korbsak Sabhavasu, head of the Democrat Party's strategic working group, had earlier revealed the amnesty would be for political cases, not for criminal or corruption cases.

This implies that former premier Thaksin Shinawatra would not benefit from the party's proposed amnesty.

Mr Suthep said the plan has been discussed in principle and its details would be worked out later as to whether the amnesty should be implemented with a new law, a change to the political party law or an amendment to the constitution.

Meanwhile, Mr Suthep said there were rumours that Thaksin, the de facto leader of Pheu Thai, may have already tried to lobby small parties for their support in forming the next coalition government.

Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said yesterday he was not worried about any lobbying that could isolate his party.

"Actually, parties should make it clear where they stand in forming the next government," the prime minister said.

Thaksin's youngest sister and Pheu Thai's No.1 party-list candidate Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday denied her brother was inviting other political parties to form the next government with Pheu Thai. She said Thaksin had nothing to do with the matter and it was too early to discuss the formation of the next government.

Chartthaipattana de facto leader Banharn Silpa-archa also denied Thaksin had contacted him or his party about forming a government.

bangkokpost.com

interesting, so the amnesty will be used to "pay off" coalition partners

Bangkok Post : Pheu Thai gears toward amnesty

Pheu Thai gears toward amnesty

Moves are already afoot to bring back Thaksin

• Published: 5/07/2011 at 12:00 AM
• Newspaper section: News

The Pheu Thai Party looks set to consolidate its power as a majority government with more than 300 House seats to smooth the path for exiled former prime minister and its de facto leader Thaksin Shinawatra to return home, a party source said.


Sanoh Thienthong, left, of Pheu Thai puts his arm around the shoulders of Sanan Kachornprasart, right, chief adviser to the Chartthaipattana Party, as they join potential prime ministerial candidate Yingluck Shinawatra at a press conference announcing the formation of a five-party coalition. SOMCHAI POOMLARD

The source said the party will use its numbers in the House of Representatives to ensure smooth passage of legislation to grant amnesty for Thaksin's 2008 corruption conviction, which would enable him to come home.

The party is now trying to poach MPs from two main factions inside the Bhumjaithai Party led by Somsak Thepsuthin and Sora-at Klinprathum to have the desired number of at least 300 seats.

Four political parties - Chartthaipattana, Chart Pattana Puea Pandin, Phalang Chon Party and Mahachon - have now agreed to join Pheu Thai to form a coalition government with 299 House seats combined.

The source said Pheu Thai is also seeking to control three major ministries - the Foreign, Defence and Interior ministries - which are crucial to bringing Thaksin back to Thailand.

However, the source said the party would tread carefully and not rush the plan to bring Thaksin back home considering that his opponents would come out in opposition to his return, which could rock the stability of the new government.

"The party will have to wait for the right timing when the new government becomes strongest with the support of more than 300 House seats to ensure the passage of legislation related to the granting of amnesty is plain sailing," the source said.

Pheu Thai will also need to be sure that its coalition partners will be given the cabinet seats they desire to guarantee government stability.

The Bhumjaithai Party, which looks likely to be on the opposition bench, is now facing possible dissolution as there have been complaints of election fraud against the party.

If Bhumjaithai is dissolved, the situation in parliament would be even more favourable to Pheu Thai as the opposition camp would be too weak while the government would be more stable. Then, it should be the right time to grant amnesty to Thaksin and bring him home, the source said.

This scenario may take one to two years or even a full four-year term in office to materialise, but it is not too long and is seen to be "worth the wait", the source said.

Before the right timing comes, the top priority for the new government will be to tackle the economic woes to sustain the government's popularity, the source said.

The source also said Pheu Thai list MP Mingkwan Saengsuwan has emerged as a strong favourite for the foreign minister portfolio given his tact and finesse, his command of English and his reputation abroad.

ACM Sumet Phomanee, Thaksin's Class 10 friend from the Armed Forces Academies Preparatory School, appeared to be a favourite for the defence portfolio while Pol Gen Pracha Promnok, Pheu Thai's chief adviser and its No.5 candidate on the party list, has emerged as the strongest contender for the interior portfolio, the source said.

Meanwhile, Pheu Thai No.1 list candidate Yingluck Shinawatra, along with leaders and a representative of three political parties, yesterday held a press conference at SC Park Hotel to confirm that they would form a new coalition government to run the country.

Also present were Maj Gen Sanan Kachornprasart, Chartthaipattana's chief adviser; Wannarat Channukul, leader of Chart Pattana Puea Pandin; and Chao Maneewong, leader of the Phalang Chon Party. The Mahachon Party did not send its representative to attend the press conference.

Ms Yingluck, potentially Thailand's first female prime minister, said a coalition government with 299 House seats from the five parties would be enough to form a stable government to run the country effectively.

However, Pheu Thai would have to wait for the confirmed election results of the Election Commission before proceeding with the formation of the new coalition government

She reiterated that Bhumjaithai would not be invited to join the coalition government.

She said the new government's first task would be to press ahead with a plan to foster national reconciliation.

It will be left to the Truth for Reconciliation Commission chaired by Kanit na Nakorn to continue with national reconciliation efforts and more independent committees will also be set up to help with the work, Ms Yingluck said.

The new government would also take urgent steps to fix the economic problems and tackle the rising prices of consumer products, to restore relations with foreign countries, to boost the morale of government officials and to eliminate corruption, she said.

She said the new government will also hold celebrations to mark His Majesty the King's 84th birthday on Dec 5.

THE POWER SHARE

Pheu Thai's likely prime ministerial candidate Yingluck Shinawatra has announced the initial coalition which will form a 299-seat government.

GOVERNMENT 299
- Pheu Thai 265
- Chartthaipattana 19
- Chart Pattana Puea Pandin 7
- Phalang Chon 7
- Mahachon 1

OPPOSITION 201
- Democrats 159
- Bhumjaithai 34
- Rak Thailand 4
- Matubhum 2
- Rak Santi 1
- New Democrat
Party 1

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

The source said the party will use its numbers in the House of Representatives to ensure smooth passage of legislation to grant amnesty for Thaksin's 2008 corruption conviction, which would enable him to come home.

wait a minute, didn't they say only a few days ago it wouldn't happen

Bangkok Post : Priorities for a Yingluck govt

EDITORIAL

Priorities for a Yingluck govt

• Published: 5/07/2011 at 12:00 AM
• Newspaper section: News

There is still work to accomplish and formalities to perform, but it seems that our next prime minister is to be Yingluck Shinawatra. As the No.1 candidate who led the Pheu Thai Party to victory in Sunday's elections, she is first in line to organise a government. There seems little doubt she can do that, since the party won a parliamentary majority and has four smaller parties as allies, harnessing at least 299 seats in the House of Representatives.



She will be the first woman to serve as prime minister in Thailand. She deserves the respect due to a national political leader, and in turn she owes diligence and good governance to the country.

Ms Yingluck obviously ran an effective campaign, but she has been long on promises and short on specifics. As soon as she is confirmed in office, as the Americans put it so colourfully, the "rubber will meet the road" and she will be judged on performance rather than her image.

On the campaign trail she always had two subjects at hand. The economy and national reconciliation are doubtless the most important topics for the nation, and the soon-to-be prime minister Yingluck will have to take decisive measures on both.

For almost every conceivable reason, she must concentrate on the economy and leave the entire task of reconciliation to others.

In the waning days of the campaign, Ms Yingluck began to emphasise an eminently sensible policy which she must follow up on. That is to widen the power of the Truth for Reconciliation Commission, enlarge the scope of the process and allow independent bodies to do their job. To take any other course is to create or prove the one impression she cannot afford: that she is the puppet of her elder brother Thaksin, the fugitive former prime minister.

The outgoing government of acting Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva failed to help the country to reconcile after last year's riots, military attacks and 92 deaths. Ministers hobbled their own reconciliation committees. Notably, the main TRC under former attorney-general Kanit na Nakorn is at a standstill.

The army and civilian security forces have stonewalled its requests for witnesses and documents. Ms Yingluck's role here is to insist on the release of such information, but to allow Mr Kanit and others to decide their importance.

Mr Abhisit stated in his concession speech on Sunday that the Democrats, as the opposition, intend to be tough and oppose amnesty for politicians.

The outgoing premier would do well to bear in mind the British parliamentary term for his role: loyal opposition. The incoming government will deserve tough scrutiny at every moment, but its duty is to the country.
The Democrats' last term in opposition led to harmful stands - on relations with Cambodia, on support for riotous protests and more.

The question of amnesty for banned politicians is not a matter of vital national interest. The return of Thaksin with a full political pardon is a potentially dangerous issue for this next prime minister to try to tackle through political means, especially now, at the beginning of her term.

Many people still remember the return of ex-dictator Thanom Kittikachorn from exile - and the murderous violence and further dictatorships it spawned.

Ms Yingluck deserves a chance to tackle more important matters. She should start with the economy. Her own Pheu Thai and red shirt constituents will benefit, but more importantly, so will the country.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

The question of amnesty for banned politicians is not a matter of vital national interest. The return of Thaksin with a full political pardon is a potentially dangerous issue for this next prime minister to try to tackle through political means, especially now, at the beginning of her term.

it would be political suicide, and a perfectly legitimate reason for a coup as she wouldn't follow her mandate

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

The question of amnesty for banned politicians is not a matter of vital national interest. The return of Thaksin with a full political pardon is a potentially dangerous issue for this next prime minister to try to tackle through political means, especially now, at the beginning of her term.

it would be political suicide, and a perfectly legitimate reason for a coup as she wouldn't follow her mandate

I am pretty sure her advisors and herself know that would not be a good idea. Politcally it would better if they cohersed someone else to do it.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

But haven't you been saying all along that the election is only a referendum on Thaksin's return? If that's all it was about then of course she has a mandate to do that

maybe an unofficial mandate, but not her official mandate. Need to explain everything for you, don't I ?

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by DrB0b

But haven't you been saying all along that the election is only a referendum on Thaksin's return? If that's all it was about then of course she has a mandate to do that

maybe an unofficial mandate, but not her official mandate. Need to explain everything for you, don't I ?

No matter how it is done it will not be under her guise. There are plenty of Pawns availible.