Thread: Thaksin: Let's put unity before justice

Originally Posted by Bobcock

"........but in the end his greed, ego and lust for power overcame him.

Actually, it was the coupist greed, ego and lust for power that overcame him.

Elections is what overcame them before that.

Greed/ego/lust for power overcame and superceded electoral realities.....Democracy be damned!

Not complicated.

Read it again BF, you missed my point

^^so, the coup came before the civil society demonstrations (you do remember them, don't you? Triggered by the corruption and greed of the Shin clan)? Your grasp of history is very tenuous.

Originally Posted by goostewart

"......the yellow folks at the time (now we have a far more lunatic fringe at the helm) were doing it because the institutions within the democratic framework were being ridden over and thus democracy was at stake

No, their self-aggrandized governing entitlements were at stake.

Saving Democracy by those who couldn't win an election via a coup, is the reality of their motives.

They would do it all over again, today, if they could. But this time Ms. Y. would be the 'mother-of-all' criminals.

Not complicated.

^so, Thaksin and his blatant subversion of the institutions of power had nothing to do with it? This was all about grabbing power, yes? Can you confirm that?

Originally Posted by Bobcock

Read it again BF, you missed my point

yes, it was a very very naive point, very unlike you, so I am assuming you were being sarcastic, or maybe exceptionally naive

Originally Posted by Calgary

duly swallowed by indoctrinated farangs

Calgary, you have so much neck you should have been born a giraffe.

Butterfly

I didn't say refer to him being PM at the time of democracy demonstrations (he probably have ordered the army on the street to shoot them)....... read it again

Originally Posted by goostewart

Their whole beef was that democracy of the ballot box was being subverted by Thaksin.

There were some of Sondhi's early followers concerned about democracy, although hardly that of the ballot box.

Given the context of modern Thai history, the t-shirt slogan "We will fight for the King" is not indicative of a strong pro-democracy slant.

The wearing of yellow shirts was initially a Thaksin/TRT gambit to demonstrate their monarchist credentials, interestingly enough. And the demos/online TV shows that Sondhi mounted almost died away until the Shin Corps sale, i.e. when the issue became the much-loved "corruption", the c-word that has replaced communism in coup justifications for the past couple of decades.

And as everyone knows, Sondhi turned on Thaksin because of a deal gone wrong over a patronage appointment that would have seen Sondhi off the hook for a huge debt-- not because of any concern for democracy, of the ballot box or otherwise. PAD became PAD, as a further development of these fight for the king folks once Sondhi had official support from the military and the palace, so again hardly evidence that the initial thrust was pro-democracy.

It is true, however, that some of the initial folks in the fight/PAD group, most of whom went over to the Reds, were democracy advocates.

Originally Posted by goostewart

^so, Thaksin and his blatant subversion of the institutions of power had nothing to do with it? This was all about grabbing power, yes? Can you confirm that?

Yup.

Consider it confirmed.

Is democratically elected corruption okay then?

Should we praise the corrupt because they are democratically elected?

Let me guess, corruption is comparative and former pre PADite PADite governments were worse......right?

Originally Posted by Bobcock

Let me guess, corruption is comparative and former pre PADite PADite governments were worse......right?

Right!

Damn, you are smart BC.

Fuck! And I did without ever having read your signature.

Performing puppy me.....

As are so many others Calgary. There has been more pocket lining in the last 9 months than in a long time. I will agree politicians like Suthep and the new football guru Newin should be jailed, and they were key players in the Democrat party, the pity of Thai politics. But Buri Ram PC is not at the top of the league right now so Newin has more pressing matters. The southern citizens are smart they realize Suthep and his son are scum. So they will be long gone in the next election as well.

Originally Posted by Bobcock

Fuck! And I did without ever having read your signature.

Performing puppy me.....

BC, you are a sneaky little devil all over again.

Of course you read my signature.

How could you not.....Compelling stuff, that siggy.

Originally Posted by Calgary

Thaksin says sorry for 'anger' remarks | Bangkok Post: news

Thaksin, who has lived in self-imposed exile for four years, is worried the red shirts may misunderstand the message he gave to them during their gathering to mark the second anniversary of the military crackdown at Ratchaprasong intersection on May 19, 2010.

>Thaksin not worried Red Shirts may misunderstand.....simply pointing out the Amart attempts to forge a wedge between them.

>Military crackdown?...........Carefully avoiding any reference to a political context. Using two methods, namely:

#1...Not mentioning the reality of the demonstration being against their coup,

#2......not wanting to give the protesters a political connection and framework

>Military?............Not really. Doesn't tell the whole story. It was merely the armed extension of coupists, aided by the PAD friends.

"My brothers, today it's time for us to return to resume political roles and help drive the country forward," he said.

They can do that, while the UDD/Red Shirts pursue the R'song murderers.

The RS are OK with that.

Everyone fullfil their own political niche against the coupists.

"Thaksin then fled the country to live in self-exile abroad to avoid the prison term."

Giving some more "self-serving historical context to the events of this article".

With zero reference to the "mother-of-all' causes being their coup, puts these comments into the catagory of 'historical revisionism"

The whole thing can be seen as Thaksin saying "Oh, shit. I fucked up."

Originally Posted by goostewart

That is why the whole episode has been classed as a civil society coup by academics.

Maybe some academics are classing it as that but it does seem like special pleading. The coup used tanks and guns and the implicit threat of violence and immediately put a military junta in place.

There are some circumstances where civil society leads and mounts coups successfully - the Phillipines ouster of Marcos, the Velvet revolution in Czechoslovakia, the Arab Spring in Tunisia. In these cases the military comes trailing after the civil society, often having turned around its support for the erstwhile leader to save their own skins. But the 2006 coup was planned and instigated by the army. Of course they adopted the slogans of "anti-corruption" and "democracy" that the Yellow protests were using but they would say that, would they? It was a military coup that some civilians of course supported. As most military coups are supported by some civilians.

What's the difference, most so called democracies have deteriorated into a chance to pick your dictator from 2 totally unacceptable candidates, while knowing in the back of your mind both they and their political parties are both bought and paid for by the same special interests.

Where does real democracy exist, where does the government really fear and respect the people and not control them and manage public opinion? Certainly not in any of our home countries.

Originally Posted by Bobcock

remember it's the facist Amart coupist media, not any normal media

Fair enough. But define normal media, will ya? Like Time/CNN-Warner that makes Steve Jobs the man of the year, etc, when they have a contract to promote Apple? I don't think there is a 'normal' anymore. Maybe there never was?

I am sure these few remaining yellow shirts would be mighty pleased about the Sword of Justice being upheld if they were being thrown in jail en masse like their UDD counterparts.

It is quite obvious the Yingluck government is pursuing a reconciliation and amnesty agenda, rather than taking a strictly impartial or 'tit for tat' view of justice and accountability- but the fact is, major crimes committed by the yellows such as occupying Thailands international airport, and occupying and ransacking it's seat of government were committed before any UDD offences. So the Yellows should not only be in jail, but should have been there for longer than the Reds. Too late to change it now I suppose, but it is a pity that several of their high profile leaders and provocateurs are not currently in jail, to remind them both that Justice applies to all equally, and that in this case amnesty does also.