Thread: Amendments to Police Order 138/2257 (using monthly income)

First my apologies -thread is drifting off topic, Thai Immigration legalities may warrant it's own thread, but, probably not.

Originally Posted by headhunter

this surely is a blatent way of the ins.co's printing MONEY

HH, different thread, but, your points are well taken. The "insurance requirement issue" well, a very large can of worms that'll be if carried further - can only hope that competition will impact premiums.

Originally Posted by bowie

Not expected, but, if I was refused an extension as I am 100% legit, I'd be documenting every single detail, then appealing to the highest level at the Immigration Office, then consulting with an attorney considering my "options".

Well my approach would be the same I however will not stay if long term harrassment commences. I did not move here to fight govt agencies, that to me is costly and counterproductive. Packing my stuff in a cargo container back to the states is far cheaper then spending countless hours and dollars fighting it here.

As we both stated. I am here with no hidden activities and have done all my due diligence. I doubt I would ever have a problem. I am thorough in all my docs and comply with the stated mandates. I am not looking for loopholes and work around, those always bite you in the ass at some point.

I support the actions and intentions the Govt is attempting to do. Albeit the execution and communication needs some help.

Being a rather simple soul who prefers the least amount of paperwork possible and as I am currently only doing LOS in 3 months stints then back to the sunburnt country for 3, I have been toying with the idea of living close but outside of LOS and just popping in and out for a month or 2 at a time but doing more often. Friends tell me it is doable from Penang or Philli as I have friends and support in both. Anyone had experience actually doing it? I suppose it might also be possible from Cambo or Vietnam or maybe Laos.

Originally Posted by JPPR2

Well my approach would be the same I however will not stay if long term harrassment commences. I did not move here to fight govt agencies, that to me is costly and counterproductive. Packing my stuff in a cargo container back to the states is far cheaper then spending countless hours and dollars fighting it here.

As we both stated. I am here with no hidden activities and have done all my due diligence. I doubt I would ever have a problem. I am thorough in all my docs and comply with the stated mandates. I am not looking for loopholes and work around, those always bite you in the ass at some point.

I support the actions and intentions the Govt is attempting to do. Albeit the execution and communication needs some help.

If the new anti-corruption and health concern extortions go through you will be in fine company as collateral damage.

Hugh Cow -

Ex-military and well traveled. I hate travel (naught but work, work and more work), it gets very old, very fast... to each their own, if constant travel doesn't bother you, try it. If the plan goes sour on you, change the plan. Flexibility.

i will be with you bowie,if they reject my self cover,i have a honest attorney of law who would surely be interested as she is married to a farang and is highly recommended.

Originally Posted by bowie

Hugh Cow -

Ex-military and well traveled. I hate travel (naught but work, work and more work), it gets very old, very fast... to each their own, if constant travel doesn't bother you, try it. If the plan goes sour on you, change the plan. Flexibility.

My thoughts. nothing cast in stone. Just wondered if anyone else was doing it.

Originally Posted by Luigi

As Sir Norts said, much ado about nothing,

Yep. I will say though it's amazing the panic, chaos etc about it all. I suspect only the ones not here legit are wound up.

There still is no mention of the combination method of qualification for retirement i.e lump sum held of, say, X which added to monthly income of y makes a total of 800,000. The new order simply refers to a monthly transfer of not less than 65,000 being the requirement.
Will this be covered in the awaited Order, Tod?
Given the 20% reduction in £ exchange rate I should imagine many Brits without Thai spouses on retirement visas will be very worried if the combination route is cancelled.

Any views or thoughts Tod?

Originally Posted by JPPR2

Yep. I will say though it's amazing the panic, chaos etc about it all. I suspect only the ones not here legit are wound up.

yep its only the ones that are here legit have to worry as we know what could be in GREEDY SCAMING MINDS.
FARANG HE TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH MONEY.
I WANT.

Originally Posted by headhunter

Yep, it's only the ones that are not legit here that have to worry

...ftfy...

Legit: yes, legitimate... many are by definition legitimate yet riding a razors edge of "adequate" money coming in and meeting the specific criteria. It was easy for them to get the Embassy income verification letter/affidavit.

Now, their income will "scrutinized". It will happen where, folks who have more than adequate income coming into Thailand to support themselves and their families quite easily, yet, will run afoul of this new required scrutiny. Pity the folk who will, and there will be several, who can easily afford to live here on their income but, will NOT meet the income requirements.

Some of the IO's I have dealt with would fail a THB 399,999 deposit where the THB 400,000 is required or fail a two month 29 day aging. 'Tis the letter of the law and it is inarguable.

These folk are NOT the criminal bad guys out - they are no harm folk living their lives, taking care of their families who will be hurt by the latest stringent regulations.

Yup, "collateral damage" - so be it. However: Exceptions Should Be Made.

In his "X-ray" press conference, concerning falsification of financial records by visa brokers, Pol Lt Gen Surachate Hakparn said.

"It is not such a serious matter if their clients are decent people, but some might be criminals, he said. He recommended foreigners who need help to contact his agency directly."

It certainly would be nice if a year down the road a few stories of folk who have established their family life here, who do support themselves and their families yet do not "burden" Thailand, report that they did receive an "exception" to the financial requirements...

Don't hold your breath.

Originally Posted by OhOh

If what has been published is the new norm all can modify their actions and comply. Wound up or not.

My statement was probably unfair. I responded to this thread after I read (skimmed) over 10 or so pages on another site where people just don't seem to understand the updates and changes. I apologize to those I may have offended with my Legit crack albeit there are probably a few. But FFS can't people just comprehend what has been written? No matter what is said on this or any other site the final release is out there documented and yet people are still apparently total confused and posting "What about this" "What about that" "Can I do this" Can I do that"

^No apology needed to me.

My beef is with the written/translated/highly likely to be accurate, document and the impossible requirements. The requirement for a full 12 months validated deposit may or may not be understood by my TIO next November. Not my fault, it's the Thai stipulated timetable and revised options. If they had published this document and given all the info 6 months ago and everyone ignored it I can sympathise with those who say be prepared or face the consequences.

And of course my wonderful UK Embassy in Bangkok, who have shown their contempt for those who pay their wages, once again.

I'll try a Canadian Passport.

Originally Posted by JPPR2

responded to this thread after I read (skimmed) over 10 or so pages on another site where people just don't seem to understand the updates and changes

They're dumb mofos on TV.
One would have to be to be a regular there.

Originally Posted by OhOh

The requirement for a full 12 months validated deposit may or may not be understood by my TIO next November.

Why not? They look at direct deposit bank books every day. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Unless you are trying to grift the system somehow why the anxiety? Maybe time to move to a country that's more accomodating like Russia. You'd probably feel at home.

Originally Posted by Norton

Along with the US embassy, the culprits in this circle jerk.

Interesting spin there doc… seems to me the Brits were the first lemming jumping off the cliff, or, perhaps it’s just a manifestation of the brit standard answer number one “just blame it all on the Yanks.”

Originally Posted by Norton

what is required will be well defined.

What is required has always been deferred to this (from the ministry of foreign affairs):

Thailand Visa Information : Issuance of Visa - Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Kingdom of Thailand

The extension of stay as well as the change of certain type of visa is solely at the discretion of the Immigration officer.

Those qualified persons can obtain an additional one year stay permit counting from the date of entry in the Kingdom pertaining to the Office of the Immigration Bureau's regulations on extension of stay. The extension of stay is at the discretion of the Immigration officer.

Thailand Visa Information : Non-Immigrant Visa "O-A" (Long Stay) - Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Kingdom of Thailand

5.4 Foreigner who wishes to extend his or her stay shall submit a request for extension of stay at the Office of the Immigration Bureau with documented evidence of money transfer or a deposit account in Thailand or an income certificate showing an amount of not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate plus a deposit account showing a total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht. A one-year extension of stay shall be granted at the discretion of the immigration officer to the foreigner as long as he or she meets the above requirements.


So, until these statements are modified, you, we, and every other Tom, Dick and Harry, are at the mercy of the IO. (Nice if you can socialize with them - mine present a formidable wall of scowling "unfriendliness" less one smiling' lass)

We will do what we have to do.

Originally Posted by OhOh

I will also share the results here

...such action would be a wonderful and unexpected turn...assuming the information you post is presented in a straightforward and accurate manner...

Originally Posted by lom

I wouldn't assume that since the amendment says monthly transfer.
You can of course, as before, transfer the whole amount 400k/800k in one go but they must have been in the bank for the last three month when you do your extension renewal. After that you are free to do whatever you want with them for 9 month, rinse and repeat.

there you go assuming things again lom.

It specifically states a minimum monthly transfer (40K marriage raising kids / 65K retirement) into a thai bank account from abroad EVERY month for 12 months BEFORE you apply for your extension. I asked at the immigration office and she pointed out how the clause was written stating you couldn'd do 130 one month and then skip a month, It's written as EVERY MONTH for the previous 12 months

Okay to be honest I didn't read the previous 5 pages of responses because some of those posts had NOTHING to do with these changes at all
As far as the TM.30 <- that's the form with the oh-so long name of Notification From For House-Master, Owner Or The Possessor Of The Residence Where Alien Has Stayed.
This has been a law since 1979 but only recently started being enforced. In some places they're saying you need to file a new TM.30 within 24 hours of coming back 'home' even if you were only traveling domestically in thailand BUT most immigration offices go under the within 24 hours of returning home after being out of the country. All you do is go back give them your new departure card number arrival date, they update the system and stamp your receipt with the date.
People (EVEN private residences) can sign up to use the online TM.30 program.
Here's the link to it (it's in thai because this IS thailand and in theory it's the landlord that has to file the TM.30) Unfortunately IF your land lord doesn't file one it's YOU who can't get anything done at the immigration office not him. Some offices won't let you do a 90 day report, get an extension, get a residence certificate or a re-entry permit UNTIL you have done a TM.30.
Bangkok seems to be the exception AND if you're using the same address for your yearly extension you won't be asked for one. They also don't ask for them for people doing 30 day visa exempt entry or tourist visa extensions either.

Here's the website for the online TM.30 program <- you sign up make a user name and the immigration office sends you a temp password, you log in change the password and then you can file TM.30's online. There is no print receipt function so you have to do a 'print screen' of the page showing your data to carry with you.
https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

Also here's the thai language video to show to thais who think they don't have to do it.

Originally Posted by toddaniels

there you go assuming things again lom.

It specifically states a minimum monthly transfer (40K marriage raising kids / 65K retirement) into a thai bank account from abroad EVERY month for 12 months BEFORE you apply for your extension. I asked at the immigration office and she pointed out how the clause was written stating you couldn'd do 130 one month and then skip a month, It's written as EVERY MONTH for the previous 12 months

bullshit, they accept one lump sum in the bank even if it was tranfered 2 months before

you can't assume IO will follow the law to the letter, most don't even understand their own orders to follow the law, and Thai language can be very fuzy (like all primitive language) in explaining things, in particular laws where legislators will give general meanings to certain principles