Whats a qualified teacher?

**DrAndy** · 09-09-2008, 09:52 PM

Bruce said that

Smeg, you feel that teachers need no training if they are university lecturers because the students are motivated. So we can just have completely untrained teachers as long as the students re motivated? I guess we have to agree to disagree there.

I am not sure why teachers and university lecturers are being compared

At a Uni, the lecturers are allowed to be crap teachers; the students do not have to attend the lectures, but they are expected to read up the subject from all of the sources. So I suppose that Smeg has a point wrt unis

I am sure, however, that schools do not allow their teachers/students to behave in that way

**bruceveld** · 10-09-2008, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by DrAndy

Bruce said that

Smeg, you feel that teachers need no training if they are university lecturers because the students are motivated. So we can just have completely untrained teachers as long as the students re motivated? I guess we have to agree to disagree there.

I am not sure why teachers and university lecturers are being compared

At a Uni, the lecturers are allowed to be crap teachers; the students do not have to attend the lectures, but they are expected to read up the subject from all of the sources. So I suppose that Smeg has a point wrt unis

I am sure, however, that schools do not allow their teachers/students to behave in that way

It seems odd to me that we suddenly accept teachers with no training whatsoever once we reach university. before that they are required (in the West) to have a great deal of training in EDUCATION. Suddenly it no longer becomes important.

Or perhaps it is because these people are extremely knowledgable in their field....

**bruceveld** · 10-09-2008, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by Smeg

Some questions
1) If TEFL paid twice as much in every country worldwide, do you think that TEFL courses would probably be longer and better?

I doubt it. It seems to me there is already a wide range of TT programs, from inexpensive to expensive.

Originally Posted by Smeg

2) What percentage of native speakers on the planet do you think could become a "confident and competent" teacher?

It would just be a guess bt I would say... 70 percent of all those who are capable of doing university-level coursework.

Originally Posted by Smeg

3) What percentage of your course applicants do you reject via pre-course tests?

Not many native speakers. Less than 10 percent.

Originally Posted by Smeg

4) What percentage of attendees do you fail?

Five percent

Originally Posted by Smeg

5) Could almost any native speaker become a "confident and competent" teacher in 4 weeks?

I see few that could not do it if they tried. Most of our failures/drop outs just realize they do not want to do it or can't be bothered (too much time at the pub every evening?) to do the work required.

Virtually anyone who tries (excluding those with some abnormal fear of speaking in front of groups) can successfully pass. Its VOCATIONALTRAINING!

**MisterStretch** · 10-09-2008, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by bruceveld

Its VOCATIONALTRAINING!

That's it in a nutshell. It's training to do a specific job.

If you do it well, it is a foundation and only a foundation in which to walk into a job and do it to it's minimal acceptable levels. Many people, unfortunately, don't grow beyond that.

Luckily, there are lots of people who do, as well, and these people grow into teachers, qualified and experienced.

Originally Posted by Smeg

1) If TEFL paid twice as much in every country worldwide, do you think that TEFL courses would probably be longer and better?

I don't think so. The salary offered in different countries has no bearing on the length of courses. Take Saudi Arabia, for instance, it pays more than twice what is paid in Thailand and a 4-week course is a minimum requirement. A good 4-week course with a minimum of 120+ hours plus observed teaching practice is very intensive and covers a multitude of issues, theory and practicum. Lengthening the courses wouldn't add a great deal of effectiveness, IMO for a beginning TEFL teacher.

Originally Posted by Smeg

2) What percentage of native speakers on the planet do you think could become a "confident and competent" teacher?

Less than the percentage of people who could become 'confident and competent' nuclear physicists, for sure. It requires a certain personality and intelligence level (as all professions do). Estimating a percentage would just be like shooting in the dark. There's no empirical evidence that I'm aware of to back up any such guess.

Originally Posted by Smeg

3) What percentage of your course applicants do you reject via pre-course tests?

When I was a trainer, we didn't have pre-course tests. (I didn't work for Bruce's organization.) Applicants provided personal and educational details and when I took over I also instituted an essay to assess language knowledge and usage. Based on these I probably disqualified about 5%.

Originally Posted by Smeg

4) What percentage of attendees do you fail?

As I stated in an earlier post, I also failed 10% of the people who completed the four weeks as I didn't feel that they met minimum requirements.

Originally Posted by Smeg

5) Could almost any native speaker become a "confident and competent" teacher in 4 weeks?

In my opinion, no. It takes a certain aptitude, the ability to get in front of a group, the ability to speak clearly, the ability to adapt, the ability to organize and plan, the ability to get along well with sudents and teachers, the ability to be able live and adjust to a new culture, the ability to follow through...not everyone has these abilities. Of those that do, most could be competent and effective TEFL teachers if they chose and were trained properly.

**Mister Fixit** · 03-10-2008, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by Accidental Ajarn

^
How pathetic would one’s life have to be to spend it searching various internet forums looking for spelling and grammar mistakes to point out? Fuck, get a life dude, put your red pen down, no one is paying you to be little Johnny grammar teacher here.

And how pathetic would another's life have to be to contually mis-read and misconstrue other's posts?

Where on EARTH did you get the idea that I 'search various internet forums' to point out errors? Something you've just made up?

Mate, if you had more than a passing acquaintance with your brain cells, you'd have worked out what was being said, as everyone else seemed to do without being told.

That is, that Bruce pontificates about being so good at everything with his massive, (but undisclosed) of-the-charts IQ but writes and spells like an 8 year old. He might try to say that they were typos, but I don't believe him, just as I believe very little of what he says anywhere. They were downright spelling mistakes and he's an ace bullshitter which seems to be about his only talent, apart from self-justification.

Sadly, people like you DO seem to believe him, or are so dopey you can't see it. I suspect the latter.

I wasn't trying to correct him for the sake of correcting him, but to point out his bullshit with which he continually deludes himself - and you, it seems.

**Doggsy** · 04-10-2008, 07:14 PM

he's an ace bullshitter which seems to be about his only talent, apart from self-justification.

Amen to that.

Not everybody that does a course at TEFL Intl leave a happy person.

I couldn't be arsed to read all 12 pages, got bored after about 4 so skipped to the end but to answer the topic title, in England trainee teacher also have to complete, with evidence, 33 teaching standards that increase by another 12 in their first year of teaching.

The standards include things like being able to pitch a lesson at the different abilities in the class, looking smart and professional, the ability to turn up on time.

Q2 Demonstrate the positive values, attitudes and behaviour they expect from children and young people.

Q4Communicate effectively with children, young people, colleagues, parents and carers.

With a large amount of TEFL people staying in Thailand just for the night life scene then even with teaching experience unless they can offer the extras then are they a qualified teacher?

However there are obviously people that take tefling seriously and probably fulfil the majority of the standards expected of teachers in the uk but i believe it is far less than the number of people that Bruce passes on his course.

**stevejackson** · 16-10-2008, 06:22 PM

Qualified teacher is a person who have a degree with good ability to teach.

**jandajoy** · 16-10-2008, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by stevejackson

Qualified teacher is a person who have a degree with good ability to teach.

Bollox.

**MisterStretch** · 28-10-2008, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by stevejackson

Qualified teacher is a person who have a degree with good ability to teach.

Qualified would also require that he/she could write a competent sentence, unlike the one above.

I agree with janda...bollocks to your statement.

**mikehunt** · 28-10-2008, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by stevejackson

Qualified teacher is a person who have a degree with good ability to teach.

I too disagree with this statement.

I believe that the most important qualification a teacher must have is that of relationship building, closely followed by the technical knowledge of the subject being taught.
Without forming "relationships" with both your peers & your students, you might as well try to communicate with a brick wall.

I also believe that a teacher should be able to impart enthusiasm for a subject. Teaching & learning are not only "jobs", they are life experiences & are better to be enjoyed.

Three degrees & no personality makes a woeful teacher. No degrees, some technical knowledge & the all important ability to build relationships can make for a wonderful teacher.

I mustn't forget to include that a good teacher is also a good student...always willing to learn. Hopefully, if the teacher has done a good job, the student can teach the teacher...& the teacher will therefore be "repaid" in kind.

**jandajoy** · 28-10-2008, 05:30 PM

Are you a teacher mikehunt? ^

**nidhogg** · 28-10-2008, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by jandajoy

Are you a teacher mikehunt? ^

or more pertinently, a non-degreed teacher.

**jandajoy** · 28-10-2008, 05:35 PM

**mikehunt** · 28-10-2008, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by jandajoy

Are you a teacher mikehunt? ^

I sure am.

No, I don't hold a degree but I love my job. I don't even have a TEFL certificate.

**jandajoy** · 28-10-2008, 05:53 PM

So what exactly, qualifies you to perform this role?

**mikehunt** · 28-10-2008, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by jandajoy

So what exactly, qualifies you to perform this role?

The M.O.E. have accepted my "trade certificate" & as such, I am "legal" (I have a work permit).

I have an excellent relationship with most of my students...they see me as an "equal" but never abuse this situation.

I have an excellent relationship with my peers. This relationship is based upon simple respect, honesty & trust. Plus, I can take any criticism that comes my way.

The test results of my students have proven that they actually learn something from me. Mind you, not every student passes.

I have always been more than "good" at English.

The current situation at my place of work is interesting.
A foreign teacher (from Europe) has recently started working here but his English skills are not very good. He does hold a degree but I'm not sure what it is. He also treats the students like children (I teach people who have finished Matyom. The students are generally over the age of eighteen). He rebukes any criticism from the Thai teachers even though the Thai teachers are correct.
Although he spends an inordinate amount of time learning the Thai language & donating food to Wats (temples), many Thai teachers dislike him. He simply has very little ability to relate to people, especially to the students.
I get the impression he is trying to impress people but it's not working.
Little does he know that he will be fired in two days time.
If only he could try to "connect" with his students & peers as well as take constructive criticism, he would be ok. Of course, it would also pay him to be a student of English for a little while too.

Some may think that this is all about "arse licking". It is not! I do not "lick arses". If needed, I stand my ground until an agreement has been reached. Mind you, none of this could happen if I wasn't a "people person".

BTW, my prior jobs in the western world were all of a technical nature. I was even employed as an engineer for many years although I do not hold a degree in engineering.

**jandajoy** · 28-10-2008, 06:25 PM

How sweet.

**jandajoy** · 28-10-2008, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by mikehunt

I have an excellent relationship with most of my students...they see me as an "equal" but never abuse this situation.

Oh Dear.

**Rural Surin** · 29-10-2008, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by bruceveld

i think some of the curent threads have, in my opinion, some very poor analogies about teaching and qualifications.

I spent 13 years of my life studying general subject matter with "qualified" teachers. Then I went to university and all of my teachers were apparently "unqualified" because they had never studied Education, just specialized in their field of study. That went on for the rest of my education, right through my MBA (which,according to some websites, I really do not have lol). Some of these teachers were horrible in the classroom. But they were experts in their field of study. They could have REALLY sued some teacher training, though.

Now, lets take a look at the poor TEFLers you guys like to disparrage so often.

All of us natie speakers are experts at the English language. Our usage level is Native and completely fluent. And if we have any kind of decent education we should be able to spell and string together a sentence or two. Believe it or not, we are experts in English language compared to the rest of the world.

Now, can we teach? Teaching language is quite different than teaching other subjects. Good teachers get a great deal of student participation. If you get some training, even as little as four weeks, will give many some basic skills that can make them successful English teachers. Will four weeks be ALL we need? Of ocurse not. Thats just a drivers permit to teaching english. All good teachers learn through their expereinces how to continually improve their teaching techniques and, obviously, more training is better than less training.

I am biased, I get it. But just because someone has "only" a four-week TESL does not make them a poor or unqualified teachers.....

Formal education and training does not guarantee anything....yes?

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