Thread: Advice on TEFLing

^ get off your high horse son, you are an english teacher in a third world country, not a fvcking brain surgeon.

Is that the common feeling? I really don't know. Teachers here just do what is needed for them to get by, not what the students actually need? Bit sad if that is the case.

Perhaps they should get some self respect and actually learn (at least the bloody basics) of how to teach!

^ I've an MBA from LSBF.


I wouldn't try to teach it simply because I have it and I can speak!


Hardly the same as doing a basic 2,3 or 4 week $1000 course that teaches the basics of how teach, is it?

We can all type, computer programming is typing, let's teach computer programming!

Get some self respect wannabe teachers and at least learn the very basics of the trade.

Originally Posted by ACT

Originally Posted by Bogon

To work in the middle of Bumfuck, a CELTA will obviously help, but a good grammar book should suffice.

Strange.

So the students just need someone who knows what they need to know.

Not someone who knows how to teach what they need to know?


Sounds like a load of bollox really.

Students surely need (and at least deserve) a teacher. Someone with at least a little bit of teacher training, no? Just because you read a book on verbs and adjectives surely doesn't mean that you should then be deserving of getting in front of 50 students and teaching them about it. What about teaching techniques etc?

Think you are getting it wrong, nothing about passed perfects, pronouns, verbs or proper grammar.
It's about speaking in english, you don't need to know rules fo speak.
It's just a high school with kids learning conversational english.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Let me give you an example, my wife's sister is about 14, and top of her English class. Her workbooks are full of grammar exercises, but she cannot have the easiest of conversations with me.
..

I've noticed similar when talking to Chinese students, that haven't had a native speaker involve them properly in speaking and listening activities.

Listening to a native speaker of a language, talking to them, being corrected (albeit largely without explanation because native speakers don't naturally know how to explain the rules of the language without studying them first) is good.

Having a native speaker involve them in controlled, fun speaking and listening activities, set out in a properly structured lesson, and done in both an efficient and effect manner, is what is most beneficial to students involved in speaking and listening exercises/classes. Learning different methods of how to do these things is advisable to anyone trying to so.

Your last paragraph is closer to what the students need, but it should not be overly controlled or structured. The students can conduct natural discourse in their first language and need to be encouraged to do similar in English. Yes, the lesson should be designed and purposeful, but should approximate the freedom of natural discourse as much as possible. This is not drilling, it is creative language in free role play. James can do that very well. I'd suggest starting with familiar genres/scripts such as going to the market, getting a favourite snack from. 7/11, etc, initially setting the scene with language type, etc, then have the kids roleplaying it in groups. Every 5 Mins or so, change the idea slightly to keep the kids mentally alert. Easy, fun, especially if you create action spaces and have them moving around, and very functional - exactly what these kids need.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

exactly what these kids need.

Which is why native speakers should do basic courses that teach them (by teaching them, showing them, involving them, observing them, and giving feedback and advice to them) so they learn how to do these things a lot more effectively.

We have a training department in our company and even watching the trainers split them up into groups is interesting. No 'okay, umm, you and er you, and you and you, and you and you over there, you stand here, no you stand there, yes okay'. It's pure dynamic, effective efficiency. It's 'one, two' with a tap on the shoulder stand here and here. 'one, two, stand here and here. Number ones raise your right hand. Number twos raise your right hand. Number ones you need to report a problem with system x, number twos you will use the manual to find the problem and talk them through it. using the language we have practiced and demonstrated.'

Watching a good trainer can be quite impressive and really makes you notice how important training how to do things is.

I'm glad we agree that training is best for people like the OP, or anyone hoping to be a language teacher.

^ I thought that one of the main issues with Thai English teachers was they they basically teach language rote style. Sit, listen, repeat, sit, listen, repeat. And generally do not encourage the students to participate freely. I would guess that Thai government teachers do not have the training (or even belief in the training) that native speakers learn on these TEFL courses, which is presumably to actively involve the students in a fun, free (yet controlled) manner.

I would guess that a Thai teacher walking in to a classroom where the students are all up out of their seats, being loud, expressing themselves and giving their own ideas and input would be horrifying to the Thai teacher. They would probably shout at them all to sit down, be quiet, risten and lepeat.

until one has achieved a critical mass of vocabulary, basic pronunciation and grammar rules.... which work most of the time.... one is not in a position to cross over to starting to use a language in conversations and its at this point you start learning the complexity and neuances of a laguage.

This initial stage is basically a hard slog of rote learning..... yes you can gress it up and heal people learn this stuff more quickly and effectly but at the end of the day its a matter of just learning facts and rules.... until you achieve that critical mass. From what I have seen, with the exception of schools using total immersion techniques.... few routinely create children with more than this basic knowledge of a foreign language.

Betty what you say is true, last year was asked to do something at my kids pre school. Teachers just wanted te kids to see and hear a farang talk, bit of a novelty for them.

We made hamburgers [pork] end of class kids all knew the english words for bread, meat, cheese, tomatoes, onions etc.

Anyways going to my first class next week, see how it goes. Jim

boo don't so emotional.

Don't you find it rather ironic that you accuse me of making comments with no background knowledge of the subject..... despite knowing nothing of me, my background or the resources available to be. It seems to me that all one has to do to talk bollocks and demonstrate that one knows nothing is simply to hold an oponion that does not coincide with boo's.

As I said at the initial stages leaning a second language involves learning an alphabet, a vocabulary, grammar and pronunciation rules that act as a framework to support further learning. all you describe is various pedagogical techniques that you have used to achieve this aim.

Now the OP does not hint as you say that he will be a teaching assistant helping the schools english teacher.... he actually states it. And as a teaching assistant supplementing the classes English teacher..... the productivity of his time is going to be questionable if that teacher actively resents his involvement. Its one thing to talk about all the wonderful things the OP could do to help the children learn English, but he's not running the class or the school is he..... at the end of the day the teacher and the school have authority over what he can and cannot do. if they value his presence and use as you say its going to be great.... if they resent his presence and won't work with him.... what will he achieve?

^^ How many new pieces of lexis (is that the correct fancy term? ) How many new words should be taught to a child or group of children in a language lesson?

And how best should you do it so they remember? Did you do it that way?

Did you use added materials such as picture cards of each ingredient and use them in fun games to add to the learning process?

Good stuff, Jim.

Have a plan, be purposeful, but go with the flow and don't worry if you achieve very little of your plan - if tasks, games, stuff you set are going well then stick with them, if not, change them, feel free to go wherever the class takes you...

If the kids enjoy it then you can set them little tasks to keep them active outside of class - something like: pick a flower/plant on your way to next class and try to find out it's name in English, or; take a picture of something you like in 7/11 or the market and describe it with 3 English words. This can act as a 'revise'/starting point for your next class too.

Good luck. PM me if you have any questions or need any help.

Originally Posted by hazz

As I said at the initial stages leaning a second language involves learning an alphabet, a vocabulary, grammar and pronunciation rules that act as a framework to support further learning. all you describe is various pedagogical techniques that you have used to achieve this aim.

Hazz, you're talking bolloks. I have knowledge and experience in this area, ignore it of you choose...

You are describing conventions of language, kids don't need any of that to speak and gain confidence... Cognitively, the areas of which you speak just don't exist, our brains don't work that way... I could give a rundown on cognitive linguistics, but that won't help James - it'll just feed your egos need to argue...

Originally Posted by hazz

Now the OP does not hint as you say that he will be a teaching assistant helping the schools english teacher.... he actually states it. And as a teaching assistant supplementing the classes English teacher..... the productivity of his time is going to be questionable if that teacher actively resents his involvement. Its one thing to talk about all the wonderful things the OP could do to help the children learn English, but he's not running the class or the school is he..... at the end of the day the teacher and the school have authority over what he can and cannot do. if they value his presence and use as you say its going to be great.... if they resent his presence and won't work with him.... what will he achieve?

Bolloks... James is just a supplementary teacher, a native speaker to come along and help the kids to use their language skills. His main goal is to get the kids confident enough to use their language; language is embodied, if they're not using it then all the objectivist theory in the world is worthless. I have cited many examples, choose to ignore them if you wish.

The teachers in Jame's school realize that the kids just aren't confident to use English because they don't have the opportunity to practice with a native speaker. That's it. Simple.

Originally Posted by ACT

^^ How many new pieces of lexis (is that the correct fancy term? ) How many new words should be taught to a child or group of children in a language lesson?

And how best should you do it so they remember? Did you do it that way?

Did you use added materials such as picture cards of each ingredient and use them in fun games to add to the learning process?

I'm not pretending to be an expert on language acquisition... I teach discourse, critical thinking, etc at uni level. I have also done 10+ years of general English teaching, trying as much as possible to avoid kids...

Nonetheless, to answer your question, I wouldn't be driven by theories as much as by the unique student needs in any given situation - you may have certain resources, certain knowledge bases, etc at hand to help you; this changes. Importantly, the students are always unique, so I'm driven by them. In the case I mentioned with the 3 and 4 year olds above, I taught them twice a week, and they could remember 4 or 5 new words each lesson, so that's only about 10 per week. But, that wasn't the focus at all. We did maths, and they were quickly able to read any number (upto a zillion, and down to .00000000000...., just because they could count the commas then start at the left and read down to the decimal place), we were learning a lot of verbs because we were doing stuff all the time, the classroom was very very active (how can it be anything else with 3 and 4 year olds?); Thai is rather verb depleted compared to English, so teaching verbs rather than just nouns is great for the kids - easy to teach, we would walk round the class, changing our pace (crawl, walk, hop, run, etc) and they had to shout out the correct verb...

With regard to memorizing words, I'd say this is generally taught really badly, things such as cards are not particularly good. I'd ask the teachers to bring us real fruit, then we'd play with it, peel it, cut it, eat it, etc - they'd remember very well after a couple of sessions - 20+ words would come in a week... Also, I'm not gonna bother with cards of animals when we can pop to the zoo and see them, imitate their actions, noises, etc, then use cards after to supplement and reinforce, it's far better... Obviously, I use embodied and experiential learning techniques - they are very effective.

Culture is also important. I had one Japanese girl in the class, she was far more attentive than the Thai kids, and her parents would practice with her at home, thus she learned more quickly with some words, but she wasn't so active in the games, so her verb learning and usage was slower - as I said, the kid's needs dictate, and I am always willing to change and evolve; I'd suggest that a preset syllabus is very dangerous - a teacher must be empowered to teach the group of students in the class at any given time, not a theoretical group of kids...

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Originally Posted by Hazz

Now the OP does not hint as you say that he will be a teaching assistant helping the schools english teacher.... he actually states it. And as a teaching assistant supplementing the classes English teacher

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Bolloks... James is just a supplementary teacher

Not much I can really add to your great powers there.

Start on this with any sort of illusion and you'll shortly become disillusioned. I kid you not. Consider that you might work a 20 hour week. Most lessons will be about 50 minutes in duration. You'll be 'teaching' 40 - 50 students a class & never the same class in the teaching week. That's 1000 pupils. They will stand & chant 'good morning' to you but only the very motivated 0.5% will speak any more English than that. Good luck to you.

^ I have friend who owns a school with 800 kids. One day she asked by to come along because they don't have a native speaker. First 'lesson' was like that, I said it was a waste of time, she told me I could do whatever I wanted. So, next time, I had balls and threw them around with the kids catching, but words were introduced, we did mass dancing, with words introduced etc, every kid spoke plenty. After 2 hours (I only did this to demonstrate to the Thai teachers how to get the kids active), I was pretty exhausted, but that class had 100 kids or so.

You can always do stuff, and the kids must be active and interested, but as Munted says it is bloody hard work... Enjoy...

Of course there is always the possibility
that jim is being set up
for a fall.

Originally Posted by billy the kid

Of course there is always the possibility
that jim is being set up
for a fall.

What sort of fall would that be, can't fall far, all ready on the ground.
Bad at teaching, no fun, just stop. Jim