Farang Teachers with fake documents arrested

**dirtydog** · 24-01-2007, 08:08 PM

Maybe I am being a bit harsh on Text and talk, this is one of the only training schools that the teachers from text and talk will meet you in a bar and give you the exam papers to help you out on getting that A+.

**JoGeAr** · 24-01-2007, 08:09 PM

Ahhh. 2,500 + 2,500 = 5,000 baht. Now I understand !

**dirtydog** · 24-01-2007, 08:13 PM

Yep, kk offered me the dosh, he lied to me about the Ban Phe school being part of his group and told me the pattaya one would be better, which is part of his group, he had me under the impression the Ban Phe one was Text and Talk, still live and learn, then it got worse

**ChiangMai noon** · 24-01-2007, 08:16 PM

an update posted by Hero on the teflwatch site

I realise I have been a bit quiet on this topic, basically I'm not really interested in subjective value judgments regarding the rights and wrongs or the fortunes and misfortunes of what has happened - everybody takes their own view on those matters. I have tried to present the facts of the case to date and will continue to do so.

The two teachers that were arrested at the school named above were not known to be on any list of names (perhaps contrary to previous misinformation). They were picked up at the school randomly (the teachers who were listed had all left the school previously) by immigration officials. Both were working with WPs, one had a TL as well and the other was officially employed by the school's sister company - he had previously been stripped of his TL when the documents the school submitted on his behalf were found to be fakes.

I am certain that the school positively encouraged both teachers to use fake documentation and in the case where the teacher had his TL revoked, they continued to employ him as an employee of their sister company (a computer outfit!)

So they were taken in and detained in an immigration cell, advised that signing confessions straight away without taking legal advice was the best thing to do, then paraded in front of Thai media assured that it would quicken up the process whereby they would be able to leave the country forthwith. This was obviously all bullshit, they never had any intent of letting them out through a backdoor as they were then held for another week before being tried and sentenced to three months imprisonment - a penalty without precedent and one that would be considered a harsh one to be imposed on foreign nationals anywhere in the world IMO.

One of the embassies representing one of the teachers told a concerned friend that there was nothing they could do, that this was a Thai-style kneejerk reaction to the John Mark Karr scandal of last year and that they were to be made examples of. Obviously it can't have helped their case that they were picked up the same day as a wanted sex-criminal from the UK. They were to be made scapegoats and to be hung out to dry so it seems, victims of Thai (in)justice.

Most recently advised that an appeal against the conviction would most likely see it upheld and would forfeit their right to early release on good behaviour grounds they have accepted their fate. The appeal process could take months or years, during which time they wouldn't be able to leave the country or generate any income. As it stands, when they complete their sentences they will be free to leave Thailand without suffering the further punishment of "deportation" - but those handling the case have hardly been true to their word so far!

What of the school? That is the sixty-four million Baht question. One thing for sure is that they continue to employ many foreigners, certainly many are working illegally with no WPs or TLs at all. It doesn't appear that they are to be prosecuted, indeed the whole thing seems to have passed them by. They have provided limited help for the teachers they incriminated, but otherwise business as usual - who knows what happened behind the scenes, but it seems in this case it is time to make an example of teachers and not those who employ them unlawfully.

I think the lesson we can learn from this is that there is absolutely no intention on behalf of anybody to change the way things are. There seems little attempt to "crackdown" on those working illegally (on transit stamps or tourist visas etc.) Merely an opportunity was grasped with both hands to "make examples of" two guys who were guilty of a crime, but were by no means criminals, that they had been encouraged to commit by their super-rich employers.

Both teachers involved are nice decent people, with friends and families. Both had taught in Thailand for several years before they were ever tempted to use false documents and only did so when the school told them it would be "no problem". They had made their lives here and IMO are victims of circumstance, misfortune and misinformation.

**dirtydog** · 24-01-2007, 08:16 PM

Still I am sure the liars at Text and Talk like me bringing this up every month or so

and guess what, I wouldn't accept those lying cnuts money anyway, anyway more to come

**dirtydog** · 24-01-2007, 08:18 PM

The police always lie for a signature, thats every country.

**ChiangMai noon** · 24-01-2007, 08:19 PM

No wonder your fukking post count is so high DD.

Mods, post merger over here now please.

**dirtydog** · 24-01-2007, 08:25 PM

Look cmn, we only let Welsh people on here so the Kiwis had somebody to send their sheep pitures to

**dirtydog** · 24-01-2007, 08:37 PM

So we got 30 farangs arrested, and 2 that got done up like a kipper, now the odds are all 30 of them had fake degrees, so was it the school they worked at or the school they learned at that said to get them? who paid the 28 out? should you really believe text and talks new shite about a life degree? was it text and talk that advised them on their fake degrees? cos text and talk are certainly doing that now....

**Gerbil** · 24-01-2007, 09:36 PM

^ I think you'll find that 'life degrees' aren't worth the paper they're printed on as far as the Thai authorities are concerned (and rightly so).

**tuferguson** · 24-01-2007, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by machangezi

Just yesterday (or was it day before yesterday), the immigration police raided an international school in Bangers. They picked McMahon, a Brit, who was teaching there without work permit. He's also wanted in Britian for child abuse.

What school was that? I got told it was New Sathorn but then it was someone else?

3 months for the two lads? Fuck me. I reckon there are a lot of nervous knees out there both teachers and schools who will find themselves with empty classrooms.

Thank god the BIB cant touch me!

**Agent_Smith** · 25-01-2007, 11:26 PM

I resent the remarks about those who leave their home countries to teach in Thailand are losers, misfits, or criminals. I'm sure some are but what is the real percentage here? Many, like myself, simply want a new experience. I was doing pretty well back home before I came here, I'm not running from anything, I just want to experience different things in this world and a teaching stint (or lifetime) was something that has interested me for many years. Thailand is a good and inexpensive place to get started in the TEFL field. Yeah, the friendly and pretty women are a nice incentive but it wasn't sex that got me here--I've been with the same gal since I arrived 5 months ago--and I certainly wasn't lonely back home either.

So, really, how many teachers are pervs and deviants out there? Maybe in a couple years teaching here I'll change my opinion but just at first blush I think the negative comments are a bit exxagerated.

BTW, I have an actual degree (BA) from an actual university and I won't work without a permit.

**Camel Toe** · 25-01-2007, 11:52 PM

how many teachers are pervs and deviants out there

We'll never know. You can get poisoned in the finest restaurants, get aids from any girl no matter how beautiful she be. You can buy a 100B lottery ticket and win a million. All I know is they like it here and wherever they are in the world is less attractive than a place like Thailand. If the sex I like suddenly became illegal I'd find a way to get that muff no matter what the punishment. Criminals don't usually ever think too much about getting caught as many like to believe. It's said that just about no criminal considers the punishment for the crime he's about to commit. I'd have to say there are more per capita here, both Thai and farang, than just about anywhere in the world. The only reason I can think up why a pedo/sicostrangler wouldn't choose Thailand or a Thai-like destination would be that he isn't attracted to brown men/kids/girls.

**Fabian** · 26-01-2007, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Agent_Smith

BTW, I have an actual degree (BA) from an actual university and I won't work without a permit.

Now you feel secure but what about if they decided that you need a MA?

**Gerbil** · 26-01-2007, 02:48 AM

PHDs only in future please

**William** · 26-01-2007, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by Agent_Smith

So, really, how many teachers are pervs and deviants out there?

I've always agreed with the argument that foreign teachers in Thailand just seem to get a back rep. Bascially (a) you work for 40k a month and basically cannot afford to be deviant; or (b) you work for 140K ++ a monthly a cannot afford to be deviant.

There are a few rotten apples, but that is the case in any profession. For example, the field I work in is meant to have the highest rate of suicide (per profession) in the UK, but I doubt that would make me any more inclined to commit suicide.

Originally Posted by Agent_Smith

BTW, I have an actual degree (BA) from an actual university and I won't work without a permit.

I don't think anyone has any real grudge against people in your position. Where the area becomes a little grey is when you have people teaching in schools who themselves don't have a high school diploma. In such a case, they cannot really believe they are qualified for the job - can they?

Overall, however, one thing that has been shown in the last few months is that Thailand is a good place to get "lost" in. Now, whether that's the fault of Thailand's immigration rules, the Western nations immigration rules, or any of the above, is debatable.

I've always been interested with the fact that the US has the right to turn back a plane if the passenger list is carrying an "undesirable", but cannot tell when some is taking flight. Weird

**Shustraya** · 26-01-2007, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by ceburat

The people who you are defending that are doing a day's hard work....are liers and cheaters....that's how they got their job isn't it? Is that who you want teaching your children?

ever considered that they may be teaching adults?

anyway, as long as they can teach then it doesn't matter what papers they have or have not

**Shustraya** · 26-01-2007, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by watterinja

The problems is that Thai folks must surely link 'Teacher fraudsters' to falangs in general? It gives us all a bad name & think it's about time they stopped. __________________

perhaps you should stop fucking bargirls then you hypocrite

**ChiangMai noon** · 26-01-2007, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Shustraya

anyway, as long as they can teach then it doesn't matter what papers they have or have not

would you be saying that in the UK or the States or ....

**Shustraya** · 26-01-2007, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by beware of the dog

Nobody is forced to do it, and if you are desperate enough to live in Thailand that you will work for a school that just wants to milk you of your knowledge to make money and then wash it's hands of you the minute you get caught, you really don't deserve sympathy, maybe a lobotomy...

too true Smeg old boy - but most of these Thai language Institutes are like this - they screw the teachers over for profit so why should the foreign teacher actually give a fuck about them or their students?

**William** · 26-01-2007, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Shustraya

as long as they can teach then it doesn't matter what papers they have or have not

you can "teach" without being qualified...

... how, exactly, is that achieved?

**Shustraya** · 26-01-2007, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

would you be saying that in the UK or the States or ....

no, because you get a proper wage there

**William** · 26-01-2007, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Shustraya

because you get a proper wage there

so, not only are you unqualified, but you also want an expat package to go with it...

**ChiangMai noon** · 26-01-2007, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Shustraya

no, because you get a proper wage there

In real terms I am better off teaching here than in the UK.
That's a fact.

**stroller** · 26-01-2007, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by William

you can "teach" without being qualified...
... how, exactly, is that achieved?

Considering the general standard of English teaching in Thailand, being able to speak and write complete sentences without making mistakes is a qualification itself.
Further, the route-learning practised here just requires to have the pupils repeat what you say and copy the stuff you write on the board.
There is teaching material to help you build up levels of 'competence'.
Actually, it might be an advantage to be a non-native English-speaker, since those are more familiar with the grammar and have been through the learning process themselves.

Oh, and I'll have my second English teaching experience on Monday on a local English camp. Piece of cake if one has a background in training people.

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