Thread: The Libyan Crisis

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

But the big problem they have at the moment is transparency

in the meantime, in other parts of Africa, Democracy is being pursued

Egypt Bans LaHood, Other Americans From Leaving - WSJ.com

'Free' Libya shamed by new torture claims - Africa - World - The Independent

"The moral authority of Libya's new government was called into question by two international aid groups yesterday as confidence begins to falter that the National Transitional Council, backed by Western governments in last year's civil war, can deliver on its promises to deliver freedom and democracy.

Médecins sans Frontières (MSF) brought an abrupt halt to its operations in the Libyan town of Misrata after being asked by officials to treat torture victims, in some cases to allow members of the country's new leadership to abuse the prisoners again.

The move came as Amnesty International said it has collected evidence that Gaddafi supporters had been tortured to death in makeshift detention centres.

The claims by MSF in Libya's third largest town – a centre of resistance against the Gaddafi regime last year – come amid growing concern for the security situation and evidence of human rights violations. Earlier this week, fighters loyal to the former dictator raised the old Libyan green standard above the key oil town of Bani Walid after fighting that led to at least four deaths."

The silence from the crusader coalition leaders on this is deafening.

Originally Posted by OhOh

The silence from the crusader coalition leaders on this is deafening.

don't expect them to follow up, they fucked up and they know it, and they will do what they do best, dodge their responsibility like all government employees do

Originally Posted by OhOh

'Free' Libya shamed by new torture claims - Africa - World - The Independent

"The moral authority of Libya's new government was called into question by two international aid groups yesterday as confidence begins to falter that the National Transitional Council, backed by Western governments in last year's civil war, can deliver on its promises to deliver freedom and democracy.

Médecins sans Frontières (MSF) brought an abrupt halt to its operations in the Libyan town of Misrata after being asked by officials to treat torture victims, in some cases to allow members of the country's new leadership to abuse the prisoners again.

The move came as Amnesty International said it has collected evidence that Gaddafi supporters had been tortured to death in makeshift detention centres.

The claims by MSF in Libya's third largest town – a centre of resistance against the Gaddafi regime last year – come amid growing concern for the security situation and evidence of human rights violations. Earlier this week, fighters loyal to the former dictator raised the old Libyan green standard above the key oil town of Bani Walid after fighting that led to at least four deaths."

The silence from the crusader coalition leaders on this is deafening.

And if they did intervene, you'd be moaning about that instead.

What a comedian.

What I am highlighting harry is the complete and utter waste of human lives by the coalition crusaders and its puppet cannon fodder and the silence from the gung ho coalition crusaders when their "mission" has fallen to pieces within a month or two.

Originally Posted by OhOh

What I am highlighting harry is the complete and utter waste of human lives by the coalition crusaders and its puppet cannon fodder and the silence from the gung ho coalition crusaders when their "mission" has fallen to pieces within a month or two.

What you are ignoring is Gadaffi's slaughter of any of his own citizens who dared challenge his dictatorship, using troops, missiles, tanks and planes.

Again.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by OhOh

What I am highlighting harry is the complete and utter waste of human lives by the coalition crusaders and its puppet cannon fodder and the silence from the gung ho coalition crusaders when their "mission" has fallen to pieces within a month or two.

What you are ignoring is Gadaffi's slaughter of any of his own citizens who dared challenge his dictatorship, using troops, missiles, tanks and planes.

Again.

They just had a ditty on TV of one of the son's wives who threw boiling water on the Nanny more than once. It is unbelievable that she survived the infection from the first instance.

Absolutely nasty

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

What you are ignoring is Gadaffi's slaughter of any of his own citizens who dared challenge his dictatorship, using troops, missiles, tanks and planes.

That is where we disagree Harry. The "slaughter" you refer, his "unarmed civilians" by Gadaffi's forces, did not occur. The slaughter I am alluding to, the crusader coalition's slaughter of unarmed civilians did, and is continuing.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

What you are ignoring is Gadaffi's slaughter of any of his own citizens

right, haven't we heard that before for Saddam

and of course you were there to witness it all, harryb, not heard from second tier source

god, you are ready to believe anything that can be fed to you

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

What you are ignoring is Gadaffi's slaughter of any of his own citizens who dared challenge his dictatorship, using troops, missiles, tanks and planes.

That is where we disagree Harry. The "slaughter" you refer, his "unarmed civilians" by Gadaffi's forces, did not occur. The slaughter I am alluding to, the crusader coalition's slaughter of unarmed civilians did, and is continuing.

Of course it didn't, AyatollOhOh. And Bashar Assad is holding summer fetes up and down his country, eh?

This could be difficult; with large swathes of the country still in the hands of tribes who could at least be called "tacitly co-operative" with the Gadhafi regime, excluding them would be counter-productive.

Libya's NTC adopts election law, drops women quota
By Imed Lamloum | AFP – 12 hrs ago

The ruling National Transitional Council on Saturday adopted a new electoral law for Libya to form its first constituent assembly in June, dropping a quota set aside for women.

The law, announced on the NTC's Facebook page, scraps a draft proposal that would have reserved 10 percent of seats on the 200-member General National Congress for women, after it was criticised by women's and rights groups.

The law stipulates that two-thirds of the congress be made up of candidates from political groups, with the rest going to independent members.

"The NTC adopted the amended electoral law for electing the General National Congress in June," the council said on its official Facebook page.

NTC member Mukhtar al-Jaddal also confirmed the adoption of the electoral law.

"The NTC adopted the electoral law. The new law has abandoned the 10 percent quota reserved for women" that was proposed in the draft version of the law earlier this month, Jaddal told AFP.

The NTC said on its Facebook page that the adopted law calls for 136 seats of the assembly to go to candidates of political parties and the remaining 64 seats to be held by independents.

However, it also said each political party must have equal numbers of men and women in its list of candidates for the 136 seats.

NTC member Fathi Baja said the provision that two-third of the assembly seats be held by candidates from political groups was adopted "under pressure" from the Muslim Brotherhood.

"The Muslim Brotherhood is the only political group which can have a majority in the next election," Baja told AFP.

The adopted law, which could be revised if NTC requires, further permits candidates holding dual nationalities to contest future polls, the Facebook page said. The draft law had barred such candidates from contesting.

But the adopted law prohibits from contesting those who were part of the revolutionary committees and security apparatus of the previous regime.

The final text of the new electoral law is expected to be formally published in two or three days.

The NTC was to adopt the law last week but postponed it after violent protests at its offices in the eastern city of Benghazi, birthplace of the 2011 uprising which ousted Libya's longtime strongman Moamer Kadhafi.

The council, which spearheaded the bloody rebellion against Kadhafi and now rules the new Libya, is facing severe criticism over its functioning and choice of members.

Last week's protests in Benghazi saw the NTC's number two, Abdel Hafiz Ghoga, quit the council as residents opposed his membership over his belated defection from the former regime.

Protesters stormed the NTC offices in Benghazi and threw several home-made grenades last Saturday, demanding the entire council resign except a few members such as Mustafa Abdel Jalil, who heads the ruling body.

The formation of the General National Congress is part of the new Libya's 20-month roadmap since the NTC declared the country's "liberation" after Kadhafi's killing on October 20.

Under the roadmap, which the NTC published last August, the council is to hand over power to the elected assembly within eight months of the liberation and a constitution be drawn up.

The 37-article "constitutional declaration" covers 10 pages and details the main stages of a transition from the four-decade rule of Kadhafi.

The NTC, which was formed in Benghazi last February, will step down once the congress, taking over as the legitimate representative of the Libyan people, holds its first session.

Libya bans Gadhafi-era officials from state posts
Batrawy reported from Cairo.
May 5, 2013

TRIPOLI, Libya — Under pressure from armed militias, Libya's parliament passed a sweeping law Sunday that bans anyone who served as a senior official under Moammar Gadhafi during his 42 year-long rule from working in government.

The Political Isolation Law could lead to the dismissal of many current leaders, some of whom had defected to the rebel side during the country's 2011 civil war or had been elected to office since Gadhafi's ouster and killing. The move is also likely to further stall the country's already rocky transition to democracy by ousting elected lawmakers.

It injects a new dose of uncertainty into Libyan politics during a still-fragile transition. Liberals say it will give a boost to Islamists, who performed poorly in recent elections compared to their counterparts in other Arab states, although Islamists said they could also be affected by the ban.

The law was partially driven by the unpopularity of Libya's current crop of politicians among many of the still-powerful former rebels who toppled Gadhafi, and others who say little has improved since. Backers of the law say it is necessary to complete the revolution.

But critics say that the law was passed at gunpoint, as militias have surrounded several government buildings in Tripoli for the past several days barring officials from work. Their vehicles mounted with rocket-propelled grenades kept watch on the street during the vote.

Most of the militias have roots in the rebel groups that fought Gadhafi, but they have mushroomed in the two years since his fall. Many of the armed groups have been accused of rights abuses, but the government continues to rely on them to keep order in the absence of a strong police or military. Many militiamen say they mostly want jobs and steady pay.

The General National Congress, Libya's elected parliament, voted overwhelmingly in favor of the law. Out of 200 lawmakers, 169 attended the vote.

Deputy head of parliament Juma Attiga, who oversaw the vote, told the TV station Libya Ahrar that militias had pressured parliament to vote in favor of the law, but that he had planned to vote yes in any case. He may be affected since he served as head of a governmental rights group under Gadhafi.

The law highlights the government's inability to rein in armed groups and exposes the many obstacles the North African nation faces in rebuilding its weak central government.

It comes at a time when Islamists are in a position of strength following the Arab Spring uprisings that saw Libya's two neighbors — Tunisia and Egypt — oust longtime autocrats from power. As is the case in all three nations, Islamists and liberals are in a power tussle for control over the direction of their countries.

But unlike Egypt and Tunisia, liberals won big in Libya's first free elections last year. Former rebel leader Mahmoud Jibril's liberal bloc took nearly half of the seats allocated for party lists. The body has a significant numbers of independents allied with Islamist parties.

Legislators told The Associated Press that the law states that parliamentarians who lose their post will be replaced by either the next name on the party list or by the independent candidate who came in second in a district. This could benefit many Islamists, who trailed in the elections and came in second in many districts.

Lawmaker Tawfiq al-Shaybi, who is with Jibril's bloc, told Libya Ahrar TV that the country's Muslim Brotherhood party was pushing the law "in favor of themselves rather that in favor of what is best for the country."
Brotherhood lawmaker Majda al-Falah denied that Islamists passed the law to target their opponents.

"The proof of this is that 164 (parliamentarians) voted for the law and not all are Islamists, though among them are members of our party," she told The Associated Press. The law could also affect some Brotherhood figures who entered into reconciliation talks with Gadhafi's regime years ago, she said.

Several drafts of the bill were debated over the past several months, and it was not immediately clear how the final draft will be applied. Those who it does affect will be banned from government positions for 10 years.

Sunday's session of parliament, carried live on TV, was heated — some lawmakers demanded to debate articles, but Attiga cut them off insisting the session was just for voting.

Zeinab al-Targi, another member of Jibril's coalition in parliament, said the law essentially criminalizes people by excluding them from political life, even if they sided with the opposition that ousted Gadhafi.

Jibril, once an aide to Gadhafi's son, may be affected by the law.

Prime Minister Ali Zidan could also be among those impacted, though his position as a diplomat under Gadhafi might not be considered a "senior" post. He defected in 1980 and was elected to Libya's parliament before being voted by Jibril's bloc to head government.

Notably absent from the voting was the head of Congress, Mohammed al-Megarif, who may be ousted under the new law for having served as an ambassador under Gadhafi.

The New York-based Human Rights Watch said that while Libyans have a right to see officials who abused their positions under Gadhafi or committed crimes be removed from office, the law is too sweeping.

"This law is far too vague - potentially barring anyone who ever worked for the authorities during the four decades of Gaddafi's rule," Sarah Leah Whitson of HRW said in a Saturday statement.

Some Libyan activists say the vote is undemocratic since it took place under the threat of violence from militias. A Friday march in Tripoli against militia impunity was attacked by supporters of the armed groups.

The law has also been criticized because it excludes any possibility of judicial review. The Supreme Court, for example, had played a critical role in striking down last year a post-revolutionary law that had criminalized glorification of Gadhafi, a move many said contradicts the right to free speech.

Still, thousands of Libyans in Tripoli celebrated in the streets after the law was passed, waving the country's new flag that was the symbol of rebel fighters during the devastating eight-month civil war. Before the vote, protesters had placed images of people killed in the war on empty coffins laid outside parliament, a message that Gadhafi-era officials were not welcome in government.

The law may also affect a number of ambassadors, heads of governmental agencies, professors and media professionals on government payrolls.

Security officials such as the military's chief of staff Maj. Gen. Youssef Mangoush, once a special forces commander under Gadhafi, may also come under the law. He quit his post 10 years before the uprising began and sided with rebels during the war.

Soldiers including senior officers have in recent weeks demanded that Mangoush resign, accusing him of failing to control militias. If he is removed abruptly, it could disrupt attempts to build up a national army and police capable of replacing militias.

Borqiya Ghagha, a 26 year-old mother with the protesters outside parliament, said removing Gadhafi-era officials was a key demand of the revolution in which thousands died trying to oust the longtime dictator.
She said she voted for Jibril's party in parliament, but that they failed to bring about change.

"The whole platform turned out to be a lie," she said. "He used propaganda to have his party reach power and until now they have not put forth a concrete plan for Libya and instead used their power to bring forth Gadhafi-era officials to power."

Parliamentary spokesman Omar Humeidan said after a live broadcast of the vote that a committee will be formed to see how the new law will be implemented.

The committee will be comprised of judges and rights activists already serving on an "integrity commission" that vetted ministers for Gadhafi-era ties. That body will be dissolved. A new clause, though, requires members of the new vetting body to be at least 35 years old and have a degree in Islamic law, he said.

bostonherald.com