The Democrats

**barbaro** · 21-08-2009, 09:50 PM

^ Of course, there must be transperancy and an abscence of corruption and fraud. Corruption exists at all levels of government, and in some geographical areas moreso than others.

Corruption is not associated with one party over another.

As I've often stated, we live under one-party rule, as both parties are more similar than different, providing the illusion that we have a choice.

**Texpat** · 21-08-2009, 09:56 PM

Someone asked me recently who is running the Republican Party. (Sabang I think)

It appears to be Obama. He's pissed off constituents and fucked up just about every program he's tried to implement so far. (according to people who expected real Change)

He might be known as a decent Republican before this is all over. He's still naive and thinks he's capable of parting seas. It'll tear him apart if he's not careful.

**Jet Gorgon** · 22-08-2009, 12:51 AM

^^ True, Milkie. But as you've probably already noticed, as soon as we post news detrimental to Obama, the Dem campers ignore it and make a few personal attacks, or disappear off to the game room.

^ Tex, Obama has not accomplished anything except maintaining his personal popularity (to a degree).
The stimulus bill -- WTF is the money? Why are more people being laid off?
Cap'n'Trade -- heck, even farmers are seeing the light over the cost hikes it will bring them.
Cash for clunkers -- oh, it's so successful, coz folks get a freebie and it seems the govt does too coz the rules on the payouts are so friggin complicated nobody can figure out if a deal is kosher, which allows the govt to delay paying the car dealers, who are being left in the lurch. As one dealer said, "Where's the f*ing payments? We have to make payroll."
The $2 bil payment to Petrobras (you know, the company George Soros just invested $800+ mil in) is another kick in the face to Americans.
Healthcare is his Achille's heel tho. If Congress rams thru single payer, there will be hell to pay for the Dems in the next election.

**Norton** · 22-08-2009, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

The $2 bil payment to Petrobras?

Nothing to do with Obama. The loan was approved before any Obama appointees joined the bank.

My understanding the Export-Import Bank is in the business of making loans that will allow and restricts foreign nations to the purchase of American made products and services. In this case a $2 billion loan for a return of $2.2 billion. How Petrobas and in turn Soros are somehow ripping off the US by taking a loan requiring them to purchase US goods and services is way beyond my ability to comprehend. I assume you being in the banking business are far more qualified than I to comment so please enlighten me.

"The Export-Import Bank of the United States has announced a nonbinding preliminary commitment of $2 billion in financing to encourage purchases of U.S. goods and services by Petróleo Brasileiro S.A., Brazil’s national oil company. Pending a final approval, the financing is anticipated to support more than $2.2 billion of U.S. exports to Petrobras."

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

The stimulus bill -- WTF is the money?

Asked and answered by me in a previous post of yours. Suggest you look at the link I gave to see WTF the money is.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Cash for clunkers -- oh, it's so successful, coz folks get a freebie and it seems the govt does too coz the rules on the payouts are so friggin complicated nobody can figure out if a deal is kosher, which allows the govt to delay paying the car dealers, who are being left in the lurch. As one dealer said, "Where's the f*ing payments? We have to make payroll."

I never was a supporter of this program but no question it boosted car sales in the US. To that extent it was a "success". The bill which allocated $3 billion to the program is overly complicated because determination of which sales are allowed requires too much fine print. Hence delays in payments to dealers bound to be the norm waiting for approval of the sale by auditors. Expect payments for sales meeting the rules will be made but will take time. Some sales will not be reimbursed because they don't comply with the rules.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Cap'n'Trade -- heck, even farmers are seeing the light over the cost hikes it will bring them.

Yep. Cap 'n' trade will increase costs for all segments of the US economy as similar bills will in other nations.

The controversy around the bill revolves around the real need to reduce carbon emissions. Supporters and opponents are very split on the degree to which man made carbon emissions contribute to "global warming".

IMO, if cap 'n' trade has value it lies in the need for the US to become more energy independent.

**barbaro** · 22-08-2009, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Cap'n'Trade -- heck, even farmers are seeing the light over the cost hikes it will bring them.

Yep. Cap 'n' trade will increase costs for all segments of the US economy as similar bills will in other nations.

The controversy around the bill revolves around the real need to reduce carbon emissions. Supporters and opponents are very split on the degree to which man made carbon emissions contribute to "global warming".

IMO, if cap 'n' trade has value it lies in the need for the US to become more energy independent.

I agree the US has to become more energy independent.

I still think Cap 'N Trade witll die in the Senate.

**Jet Gorgon** · 23-08-2009, 10:24 PM

Norts, didn't get back to your statements. I still think the stimulus pkg has done naught. Sure, energy independence is good -- is that why $2 bil is going to Petrobras in Brazil?

**Norton** · 24-08-2009, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

I still think the stimulus pkg has done naught.

Indeed. You think therefore it is fact.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Sure, energy independence is good -- is that why $2 bil is going to Petrobras in Brazil?

Loan has nothing to do with energy independence. See bolded below.

Originally Posted by Norton

The Export-Import Bank of the United States has announced a nonbinding preliminary commitment of $2 billion in financing to encourage purchases of U.S. goods and services by Petróleo Brasileiro S.A., Brazil’s national oil company. Pending a final approval, the financing is anticipated to support more than $2.2 billion of U.S. exports to Petrobras

**Jet Gorgon** · 24-08-2009, 11:48 AM

What are they going to buy, rigs? Gee, does that come with jobs for Americans?

**Norton** · 24-08-2009, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

What are they going to buy, rigs? Gee, does that come with jobs for Americans?

Seek and ye shall find. Easy enough to do Jet.

Subsea drilling companies in oil and gas

**slackula** · 24-08-2009, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

What are they going to buy, rigs? Gee, does that come with jobs for Americans?

I think it has to. My understanding of the Ex-Im bank is that it only lends money for things that are going to be bought from America.

Seems like a pretty good idea actually (from a US point of view); lend money that is then used for American purchases and get interest on the loan too.

I don't understand why the proposal is being criticised actually, let's say the plan is blocked and then the Brazilian gov goes to BP or Shell or whatever, would the critics call this a victory?

**Norton** · 24-08-2009, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by slackula

let's say the plan is blocked and then the Brazilian gov goes to BP or Shell or whatever, would the critics call this a victory?

Nope they would blame it on Obama.

**Jet Gorgon** · 25-08-2009, 12:11 AM

^ True. And I will check more into this.

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