Today's "Isms"

**Storekeeper** · 10-07-2006, 10:40 AM

Which "'ism" do you most closely identify with?

1. Socialism
2. Capitalism
3. Fascism
4. Communism
5. Libertarianism
6. All of the above
7. One or more of the above (Eclectic)
8. I just like to party

I'm posting this poll to generate discussion on the above "isms" ... Some people in this forum don't seem to really know where they stand. Some posters definitely don't have a clue what a fascists really is.

I'll readily admit to being an eclectic blend of 1, 2 and 5. I have absolutely no interest, at all in 3 or 4.

State your position before attempting to perform surgery on others opinions.

**stroller** · 10-07-2006, 11:19 AM

You mean which -isms we believe to be truthful and agree with?
Your last number should read "3", I suspect?

I can't see the poll.

**William** · 10-07-2006, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

5. Libertarianism

Is this American for Liberalism?

**Storekeeper** · 10-07-2006, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by William

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

5. Libertarianism

Is this American for Liberalism?

Nope. Liberalism isn't a direct part of this thread.

**baldrick** · 10-07-2006, 11:51 AM

I think you forgot BDSM....

**Spin** · 10-07-2006, 11:57 AM

i favour alchoholism

**stroller** · 10-07-2006, 12:04 PM

This is a limited number of options, I'd be careful categorising anyone following their answer.

1+5 = libertarian socialism.

**Storekeeper** · 10-07-2006, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by stroller

This is a limited number of options, I'd be careful categorising anyone following their answer.

1+5 = libertarian socialism.

Nothing wrong with that.

**stroller** · 10-07-2006, 01:16 PM

Also, not wanting to distract from the aim of this poll, but there is considerable bandwidth within the options, too. "Socialism", for example - Owen's co-operative movement, Marxist socialists and modern social-democrats are very different, well the latter represents a mix of socialism and capitalism, Marxist socialism is a predecessor to communism.

**Storekeeper** · 10-07-2006, 01:27 PM

My understanding of Marxism and Libertarianism is that both pretty much believe the common man isn't smart enough to have a say ... either way, doesn't Marxism basically say that industry should be controlled by the state ? If true ... then that doesn't jive with the Libertarian philosophy at all.

**Mr Earl** · 10-07-2006, 01:30 PM

You forgot anarchism.

Most people don't really know what it means.

("without archons" or "without rulers")

Ultimate freedom dictates ultimate personal responsibility.

I am an anarchist

**Mr Earl** · 10-07-2006, 01:32 PM

more on anarchism

**Mr Earl** · 10-07-2006, 01:38 PM

The other one missing is skepticism

I'd say I'm a skeptic anarchist. But sometimes I'm an anarchist skeptic!

**Butterfly** · 10-07-2006, 01:51 PM

I like anarchy myself, but let's be honnest here, it wouldn't work unless you like chaos and want a lawless society where mafias or mobs would make up the rules

**stroller** · 10-07-2006, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

My understanding of Marxism and Libertarianism is that both pretty much believe the common man isn't smart enough to have a say ... either way, doesn't Marxism basically say that industry should be controlled by the state ? If true ... then that doesn't jive with the Libertarian philosophy at all.

I'm not an expert, so please don't nail me for not giving an exhaustive answer.

Marxism postulates an avantgarde to lead society into communism; Libertarians, to my understanding, are for max liberty of the individual, with the state interfering to the necessary minimum only - including and particularly economics.

The state controlling the industry characterises Marxist socialism, thus it is a form of fascism.
Historically, Marxism was a radical answer to the early capitalist Liberalism, the 2 are diametrically opposed.

I wouldn't have guessed Mr. Earl describing himself as an anarchist, aren't anarchists opposed to any sort of state or government, and believe in communal decision-making?

Well, I'll read the link now, this thread turns out to be very interesting.
So what is your beef with Chomsky, a fellow anarchist, Mr. Earl?
Maybe "patriotism", another -ism not on the list, may explain this?

**Butterfly** · 10-07-2006, 03:43 PM

how about Nationalism ? probably the most dangerous dogma of all

Promoting hate and national interests above everything else.

I think the US is there right now.

**Dougal** · 10-07-2006, 04:54 PM

So many 'isms'

Nihilism is self destructive but hedonism is lots of fun.

**Mr Earl** · 10-07-2006, 05:47 PM

Let's hear it for the hedonists.

Sorry about the thread hijack SK!

**Mr Earl** · 10-07-2006, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

I like anarchy myself, but let's be honnest here, it wouldn't work unless you like chaos and want a lawless society where mafias or mobs would make up the rules

But that wouldn't be anarchy. (no rulers)
It's a rather large concept.

**Mr Earl** · 10-07-2006, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

how about Nationalism ? probably the most dangerous dogma of all

Promoting hate and national interests above everything else.

I think the US is there right now.

You are so off the wall sometimes. The USA doesn't promote hate.
Quite the opposite we pander just about everyone.
The USA has the most diverse society on the planet. Far more tolerant than anywhere else except maybe the Netherlands and most of Scandinavia.

**Sanuk Canuk** · 10-07-2006, 06:25 PM

I am into ismism.

Thats right if it has an ism on it I am into it.

My particular favorites are the ism's that divide the most.

Class-ism
Racism
Sexism
Ageism
Nationalism
Catholicism
Fundamentalism

Pick one, they are all great. After all once you sign on to an ism you no longer have to think about the issues, your thinking is all done for you. Convenient and stress free...Lets hear it for the ism's! Hoooraaa!

**barbaro** · 10-07-2006, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

Which "'ism" do you most closely identify with?

I don't like "isms."

Although they help categorize concepts I feel they can easily be mis-used and cause the sheep a mental escape from thinking.

Just join a club, and say you believe in this "ism" or that "ism."

No thanks. I'll pass.

**barbaro** · 10-07-2006, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

My understanding of Marxism and Libertarianism is that both pretty much believe the common man isn't smart enough to have a say ...

Not true, sir. (With respect).

Libertarianism states the "State" encroaches upon the individual's right to choose and do, and live. In Libertarianism, the individual is better than the state and bureaucracy at making choices.

Marxism: I can't remember Marx and Engels writing about the "individual."

doesn't Marxism basically say that industry should be controlled by the state ?

No.

Marx claimed that under Marxism (communism) that "state would whither away."

Two most common books written by Marx and Engels are The Critique of Capitalism and Das Kapital.

It's interesting reading for anybody interested in poli-sci.

Marxism was never implemented anywhere in the world, and has really never existed.

**benbaaa** · 10-07-2006, 09:48 PM

Jism.

**stroller** · 10-07-2006, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by Milkman

doesn't Marxism basically say that industry should be controlled by the state ?

No.

Marx claimed that under Marxism (communism) that "state would whither away."

Two most common books written by Marx and Engels are The Critique of Capitalism and Das Kapital.

It's interesting reading for anybody interested in poli-sci.

Marxism was never implemented anywhere in the world, and has really never existed.

Let me clarify, if I may: Socialism is a stage in the development towards communism(according to Marxism), and at this stage industries would be controlled by 'the state'=dictatorship by the proletariat.

The Russian revolution was an "implementation" of Marxism, the man himself was involved in this.
However, communism, which Marx perceived as the final stage of his dialectic materialism, has not been reached. Instead there were a number of countries claiming to be socialist states based on Marxism, and international socialist/communist organisations promoting change/revolution. This has been discussed at length by 'the Left', for more google "Trotsky-ism".

Unfortunately, Marx did not forsee how easily his philosophy could be adapted as a propaganda tool for dictatorships, Laos is one of the few remaining examples.

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