Tin foil hat time

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Originally Posted by Jesus Jones

I am simply stating that I am with those who do not believe that the planes alone brought those buildings down; as I don't believe that the 'fires' that were apparent at WTC7 brought it down..

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What then? Carefully planted demolition charges that took weeks, if not months, to plant, performed in such a manner that no suspicions were raised and no records of access, or 'maintenance' were ever generated?

Most of you guys, yourself included, don't even know how building management operates, or how building demolition works.

But go ahead, what's your pet theory on what 'actually' happened?

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Originally Posted by Jesus Jones

I have no answers for the crew, and dispite reading various reports as to what happened to them I haven't really given it too much attention.

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Duly noted - that which would make maintaining a theory difficult to maintain, is best ignored. No problem.

Quote- This kind of conversion of planes into weapons has *never* been tried before, and was a method of attack so unbelievably inconceivable, that it was not considered a viable threat -- as background, before 9/11, pilots and crew were instructed to cooperate with hijackers, and abide by their orders -- up until then, hijackers.

Yet the Pentagon ran simulated scenarios on both the Pentagon and WTC some years before.

So how can you say "unbelievably conceivable"

May be it did take months, or even years. Terrorists or not, it wasn't decided over a quick pint at the local.

Coincidence that the Bush family and Binladen had their foot in every aspect of this.

Marvin Bush and Wirt Walker III of Secureacom. Who were also one of the main contractors along with E-J Electric Installation Co back in 1996. Secureacom won their share just after the 1996 bomb. Probably all coincidence of course.

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Originally Posted by Jesus Jones

Coincidence that the Bush family and Binladen had their foot in every aspect of this.

Marvin Bush and Wirt Walker III of Secureacom. Who were also one of the main contractors along with E-J Electric Installation Co back in 1996. Secureacom won their share just after the 1996 bomb. Probably all coincidence of course..

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You might as well have provided a dissertation on Marigold farming as 'proof', it would have just as much relevance.

You are pointing out obvious cases of preferential treatment and / or corruption, somehow as 'proof' of the veracity of your conspiracy? How does that work? How about the price of tea in China?

All you've demonstrated is an ongoing behavior of greed and complacency, which is my argument all along.

And yes, scenarios of airliners being used as projectiles have been bandied around since the end of the Iran war, when the USS Vincennes accidentally shot down a civilian airliner (Iran Air) - some rumors abounded that it was deliberately flow in the area of engagement and filled with corpses. That's why the Pentagon scenarios include such a scenario, albeit never actually taken seriously.

No Airplanes?

Aside from this site

history of the "No Planes on 9/11" hoaxes

sufficiently debunking the dumbass statement that 'there were no planes', it's rather easy to do some elementary research yourself (as I did).

4 planes were allegedly involved:

United Airlines Flight 175 (N612UA)
American Airlines Flight 77 (N644AA)
American Airlines Flight 11 (N334AA)
United Airlines Flight 93 (N591UA)

Those numbers at the lines above are the planes' Tail Numbers - unique identifiers to help search for references to given planes.

There's a site called Airliners.net that I have been using for years (being an airline brat myself), and using the information above - I have taken the liberty of making the above planes' numbers into actual links taking you to the relevant airliners.net listing of pictures and dates of each of the planes' histories.

These are pictures, and dates, collected of these given airplanes, at various airports, and moments of their history.

So much for the planes not existing.

Next.

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Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Good debate on both sides. And no personal insults. I'm happy.

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Maybe you missed Dafney and Dr Boob calling anyone who doesn't agree with their massive intellects stupid, idiots, and retarded.

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Originally Posted by sabang

Why do conspiracy theorists bark up every single tree, no matter how flimsy?

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Because no-one else will do it? Government doesn't seem to care about doing a proper investigation to put minds to rest. Remember the JFK assasination? Gulf of Tonkin incident? Possibly even Pearl Harbour. The People have been fooled before and those other incidents (like 9/11) were all just lies/reasons to go to war.

^ That came after. Pity the usual rabble came in to fek things up.

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Originally Posted by DaffyDuck

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Originally Posted by Jesus Jones

Coincidence that the Bush family and Binladen had their foot in every aspect of this.

Marvin Bush and Wirt Walker III of Secureacom. Who were also one of the main contractors along with E-J Electric Installation Co back in 1996. Secureacom won their share just after the 1996 bomb. Probably all coincidence of course..

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You might as well have provided a dissertation on Marigold farming as 'proof', it would have just as much relevance.

You are pointing out obvious cases of preferential treatment and / or corruption, somehow as 'proof' of the veracity of your conspiracy? How does that work? How about the price of tea in China?

All you've demonstrated is an ongoing behavior of greed and complacency, which is my argument all along.

And yes, scenarios of airliners being used as projectiles have been bandied around since the end of the Iran war, when the USS Vincennes accidentally shot down a civilian airliner (Iran Air) - some rumors abounded that it was deliberately flow in the area of engagement and filled with corpses. That's why the Pentagon scenarios include such a scenario, albeit never actually taken seriously.

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I'm not listing this as proof, just another coincidence. Please quote where I have listed this or anything else as proof.

As I have said and will say again. There is no way those buildings fell by the plane impacts alone. How you interpret that is up to you.

You are adept with generalizing, aren't you?

So the Pentagon, the most secure and one of the most top secret organizations going, never took it serious.

So what did they do? Stand around a table and make a few paper planes to see if they could knock down a deck of cards.

You come out with some shit sometimes. But of course, that's what they'll have someone who's as gullible as you believe.

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Originally Posted by DaffyDuck

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Originally Posted by Jesus Jones

And just to add. Daffy, what is it that makes you such an arrogant person. Are you stressed?

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Not at all, just knowledgeable. Easy to be arrogant when surrounded by intellectual troglodytes in conspiracy threads.

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Then why are you here.

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Originally Posted by DaffyDuck

No Airplanes?

Aside from this site

history of the "No Planes on 9/11" hoaxes

sufficiently debunking the dumbass statement that 'there were no planes', it's rather easy to do some elementary research yourself (as I did).

4 planes were allegedly involved:

United Airlines Flight 175 (N612UA)
American Airlines Flight 77 (N644AA)
American Airlines Flight 11 (N334AA)
United Airlines Flight 93 (N591UA)

Those numbers at the lines above are the planes' Tail Numbers - unique identifiers to help search for references to given planes.

There's a site called Airliners.net that I have been using for years (being an airline brat myself), and using the information above - I have taken the liberty of making the above planes' numbers into actual links taking you to the relevant airliners.net listing of pictures and dates of each of the planes' histories.

These are pictures, and dates, collected of these given airplanes, at various airports, and moments of their history.

So much for the planes not existing.

Next.

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No Planes, of course there were planes. This is just more debunking anti-conspiricy shit for gullable folks like you to label everyone with .

And your typical of someone who must have the last word. Why not have another investigation? There seems to be more people that don't believe the official story than those that do. I'm not saying the majority believe it was an inside job, but there are many that blame Bush for letting something like this happend and are demanding another investigation. So what harm could it do if there's nothing to hide.

$100M was spent investigating Clinton by one K. Starr.

$4M has been spent investigating 9/11

Perhaps they knew it would be a waste of money?

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Originally Posted by Jesus Jones

There seems to be more people that don't believe the official story than those that do.

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Why not have an investigation if Angels exist? A significant number of people disagree with the official story.

Or how about the moon landing? There's plenty of dupes and idiots that believe it never happened, so let's waste more money and time catering to the low end of the intellectual gene pool.

Both those events, by the way, or probably among the most televised events in the history - there is very little doubt with what happened (three planes flying into buildings).

Now, an investigation into the events leading up to it, to nail down culpability for the criminal cases of neglect and complacency leading up to 9/11, that I wouldn't mind -- except that's already taken place (recall Ashcroft backpedalling wildly, claiming he never showed disinterest in terrorist briefings), though I wouldn't mind a more detailed examination.

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Originally Posted by DaffyDuck

Until you used the word 'reasonable' in that last sentence, I might have been willing to give you some credence...

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Google the words 'odigo' and '911' and try to explain the warning that the Israeli employees near the WTC got two hours before the attack. Also read The Shadow Factory and explain why the NSA simply stopped tracking the goat herders. If you can explain away those two mysteries, I might start to believe that you can think in a straight line.

Never mind Daffy, he's quite harmless really. Bless.

Angels and Moon landings? Yeah yeah we know.

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Originally Posted by Jesus Jones

Never mind Daffy, he's quite harmless really. Bless.

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Translation: "now I run away, since I can't answer any of these questions"

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Originally Posted by GooMaiRoo

Google the words 'odigo' and '911' and try to explain the warning that the Israeli employees near the WTC got two hours before the attack. Also read The Shadow Factory and explain why the NSA simply stopped tracking the goat herders. If you can explain away those two mysteries, I might start to believe that you can think in a straight line.

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These? :

snopes.com: 9/11 Forewarned Jews

Regardless if the above were false or not, I've already dealt with, and answered the issues of complacency and neglect -- there is no doubt that other countries (particularly Israel) had an intelligence network that would have been more aware - similarly, their intelligence information, even if passed along, would have been just as ignored as domestic intelligence was -- I have already explained the reasons why.

What about the 130 that did perish in the WTC? Wouldn't they have warned them as well?

So, you'd think with allegedly 4,000 warned via text messages, someone would have kept the messages on his/her phone, or that some of them would have equally tried to warn their gentile friends -- or is it that the jews are so nefariously banding together, that they are able to keep such a huge smoking gun secret?

("Hello, David Rosenberg? This is the Mossad. Listen, don't go to work on Tuesday. Yeah, another terrorist attack on the U.S. . . . call in sick. And remember, not a word to any of your gentile relatives, friends, or co-workers.")

Yep, I'm sure that's how it went down.

You certainly are quite gullible -- or do you really have that little self-esteem that you need to hunt for such external fairy tales to give your life meaning?

Daffy, you win and now i'm converted. To be quite honest, despite this being my thread it has grown quite tiresome.

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Originally Posted by DaffyDuck

So, you'd think with allegedly 4,000 warned via text messages, someone would have kept the messages on his/her phone, or that some of them would have equally tried to warn their gentile friends -- or is it that the jews are so nefariously banding together, that they are able to keep such a huge smoking gun secret?

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Strawman time? I never said 4000 people were warned. Two people were given a specific warning at a specific company, documented by a reputable Israeli newspaper Haaretz, and since we're really talking about probabilities here and the great unknown, I just thought you might want to explain this article:

Odigo says workers were warned of attack - Haaretz - Israel News

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Originally Posted by GooMaiRoo

Strawman time? I never said 4000 people were warned. Two people were given a specific warning at a specific company, documented by a reputable Israeli newspaper Haaretz, and since we're really talking about probabilities here and the great unknown, I just thought you might want to explain this article:

Odigo says workers were warned of attack - Haaretz - Israel News

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So, I'm sure these guys must have kept the original messages they received? Where are they?

They deleted them? I'm sure Odigo keeps copies on their server, or has backups. Where are they?

Why does a 'search' for 'Odigo' on Haaretz.com yield 'zero results' (i tried other keywords, they all reveal results)?

This investigation started in September 2001 - surely by now, results should have been published? Where are they?

More than likely, what was found is that the heavily exagerated original 'report' was more accurately similar to what the September 28th IDG news report explained:

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A September 28 article from IDG News Service, however, says the message was a non-specific threat that did not mention the World Trade Center. Alex Diamendis of Odigo said it was the timing of the message that made it unusual.

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Unless you can come up with a transcript of the original message, I am far more likely to believe the September 28th report, which is also the reason why, more than likely, there was no significant follow-up investigation, and why others have not come forth. I doubt very much that the FBI would also investigate Fortune Cookie manufacturers that circulated FC's stating "You will have a bad day" on that morning, for example.

(Buh bye, JJ, thanks for playing -- people with answers sure rain on your parade, don't they?).

^You have no answers sunshine, you're mearly regurgitate what you have been fed. You have no logic, certainly none that i've read of you. You have just become tiresome, simple as that.

Regardles off your arrogance.

There are thousand who have signed a petition for a proper investigation. I think the US owes it to them.

NYC Coalition For Accountability Now

The New York City Coalition for Accountability Now has come together to lead a disciplined and patriotic search for answers about September 11th toward one tangible goal: the creation of an independent and impartial subpoena powered investigation into the September 11th attacks on our great nation.
The 9/11 Commission?

“Set Up To Fail”, in the words of its Chairmen, Governor Thomas Kean and Representative Lee Hamilton. That's why 66% of New Yorkers want a new investigation. On November 3, 2009, we will go to the polls to vote for answers to the unanswered questions and for solutions to the illnesses afflicting thousands of first responders and NYC resident

Its fascinating that some people can be so gullible. Perhaps Mr Duck also believed that secret sections of the CIA didn't exist with Mr Cheyney at the helm, until, er, he was 'officially' told they in fact did?

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Originally Posted by Jesus Jones

^You have no answers sunshine, you mearly regurgitate what you have been fed. You have no logic, certainly none that i've read of you. You have just become tiresome, simple as that.

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So, when you look into the facts and state them (as Daffy did) you are merely regurgitating propaganda, but when you spin elaborate conspiracy theories based on flimsy "evidence" that is consistenly debunked, you are applying logic?????:rolleyes:

Well in that case, you win the argument!:)

^Silly boy. I have simply stated that the buildings were not brought down by the planes alone. Daffy and his crew are the ones spewing conspiricy remarks and generalizing. Why? because that's the only playing card they have. I have read both sides of the story, and i have made my opinion.

The governments have a history of deceiving its people, what makes you think they weren't telling porkies on that day.

If Daffy isn't mature enough to except we have a difference of opinions, instead of becoming an irratable fool, then so be it. This thread has become about cocksmenship, not opinions, as Daffy's rants and personal remarks have shown.

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Originally Posted by passengers

Its fascinating that some people can be so gullible. Perhaps Mr Duck also believed that secret sections of the CIA didn't exist with Mr Cheyney at the helm, until, er, he was 'officially' told they in fact did?

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Price of tea in China?

...And Daffy then fails to make any connection between secret CIA sections that have now been exposed and 9/11.

Fascinating to see such innocence. Just like watching a child grow up.