Why America Tortures

**Butterfly** · 09-05-2009, 09:49 PM

24 is great comedy though, I mean nobody takes it seriously right ?

**Boon Mee** · 09-05-2009, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

24 is great comedy though, I mean nobody takes it seriously right ?

Never watched it. Only thing I get on my TV down here is a lot of Soccer..sorry - Football... & those lousy Novellas...

**Rural Surin** · 09-05-2009, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Heh...this thread is a joke. After 9/11 everybody was on board with the H2Oboarding thing but a few years of no terror attacks and...

gimme a break...

Everyone? Are you sure? Perhaps Booner, that's what was repeated to you over and again.

Heh...you don't have clue...

Rest my case. The perfect definitive.

**Rural Surin** · 09-05-2009, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

24 is great comedy though, I mean nobody takes it seriously right ?

I suspect most would Butters. Consider the market viewership {Seppos}. The general populations can't really decipher between fiction and reality.

**The Zapster** · 10-05-2009, 02:16 AM

Originally Posted by panama hat

I take it Hiroshima and Nagasaki occurred because the US could . . .

Ever ask yourself why many other nations that can . . . don't? A higher morality perhaps . . . or a smaller sense of self-righteousness maybe?

Because they can . . . nice!

Or, because they have to. It ain't easy being the world's policeman. And if you think the septics are bad, just you wait til China takes over the mantle!

**blackgang** · 11-05-2009, 09:59 PM

I will post this and there is much more if you care to read it and I was alive then and do remember it vividly, so you can make all the crass remarks you want and try to denigrate me all you wish, which just goes to show your gross stupidity.

Preferable to invasion

A map outlining the Japanese and U.S. (but not other Allied) ground forces scheduled to take part in the battle for Japan. Two landings were planned:
(1) Olympic — the invasion of the southern island, Kyūshū,
(2) Coronet — the invasion of the main island, Honshū.Those who argue in favor of the decision to drop the atom bombs argue that massive casualties on both sides would have occurred in Operation Downfall, the planned invasion of Japan.[2]
The American side anticipated losing many soldiers in the planned invasion of Japan, although the actual number of expected fatalities and wounded is subject to some debate. U.S. President Truman stated after the war that he had been advised that American casualties could range from 250,000 to one million men.[3] Other sources put the highest estimates at 30,000 to 50,000.[4] In a study done by the Joint Chiefs of Staff in April 1945, the figures of 7.45 casualties/1,000 man-days and 1.78 fatalities/1,000 man-days were developed. This implied that the two planned campaigns to conquer Japan would cost 1.6 million casualties, including 370,000 dead.[5] In addition, millions of Japanese military and civilian casualties were expected.[6] An Air Force Association history says, "Millions of women, old men, and boys and girls had been trained to resist by such means as attacking with bamboo spears and strapping explosives to their bodies and throwing themselves under advancing tanks,"[7] and also that "[t]he Japanese cabinet had approved a measure extending the draft to include men from ages fifteen to sixty and women from seventeen to forty-five (an additional 28 million people).[8]
Supporters also point to an order given by the Japanese War Ministry on 1 August 1944, ordering the disposal and execution of all Allied prisoners of war, numbering over 100,000, if an invasion of the Japanese mainland took place

Debate over the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

**Jet Gorgon** · 11-05-2009, 11:43 PM

^ Yep. Hirohito even refused to surrender after Hiroshima, which is why Nagasaki was bombed (the primary target was Kokura, but cloud cover shifted the boys to target 2, Nagasaki). All cities were chosen for industrial/military reasons. Again, more deaths derived from the fire bombings of Tokyo, which were also strategic targets of military installations.
Of course, today's bleeding hearts continue to lambast the US for its war efforts, which have kept many people safe and "free" over the decades. I can safely say that Westerners and the Chinese and Koreans especially were fekin cheering their a**es off in 1945 when they heard the news about the Japan bombings and its surrender thereafter. I know the atrocities the Japs committed in their subjugation of Korea, Manchuria (Manchukuo), China, the Phils, Thailand, and also what they did to their own people on Okinawa (oh ya, the Okinawans aren't really Jap).
Don't drag up this old sh*t again.

**panama hat** · 12-05-2009, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by blackgang

so you can make all the crass remarks you want and try to denigrate me all you wish

I see . . . you detest crass language . . . this in light of you making a crass comment about my wife . . . hypocrite.

Your cut and paste has no relevance, would you care to try to explain your thoughts (snigger) in your own words?

**barbaro** · 12-05-2009, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

After 9/11 everybody was on board with the H2Oboarding

Really?

Waterboarding didn't immediately begin after 9/11. I don't recall any articles nor reports of the use of waterboarding immediately after the Sept. 11 attacks.

Are you making an assumption, Boon?

**panama hat** · 12-05-2009, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Milkman

Are you making an assumption, Boon?

Noooo . . . not Boon Mee . . .

**blackgang** · 12-05-2009, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Milkman

I don't recall any articles nor reports of the use of waterboarding immediately after the Sept. 11 attacks. Are you making an assumption, Boon?

Now MM, do you reaqlly think that they are going to clear with the news and general public the very second that they come up with some new ways to obtain info.
Not likely, and then they will deny it for sometime after it is actually in practice. But of coarse it is usually cleared thru congress or the pentagon even before it does begin.
Was it also let known that the US govt had security services [ as.Famous Blackwater] working in RSVN thru the US involvement there did you know that?

**Boon Mee** · 14-05-2009, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Milkman

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

After 9/11 everybody was on board with the H2Oboarding

Really?

Waterboarding didn't immediately begin after 9/11. I don't recall any articles nor reports of the use of waterboarding immediately after the Sept. 11 attacks.

Are you making an assumption, Boon?

Don't believe immediately after 9/11 but it sure did occur after we grabbed KSM & gave him a little dunking which produced a wealth of information.

...didn't hurt him a bit

**hafiz** · 14-05-2009, 11:13 PM

merca has lost its soul.

**Boon Mee** · 15-05-2009, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by hafiz

merca has lost its soul.

Howzat?

**lysander** · 15-05-2009, 02:57 AM

When's Hannity going to do the deed? I need advance notice so I can order the popcorn.

**Jet Gorgon** · 16-05-2009, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by blackgang

Originally Posted by Milkman

I don't recall any articles nor reports of the use of waterboarding immediately after the Sept. 11 attacks. Are you making an assumption, Boon?

Now MM, do you really think that they are going to clear with the news and general public the very second that they come up with some new ways to obtain info.

Gee, Pelosi says she didn't know either. Why does "liar, liar, pants on fire" run thru my head when I hear her say that?

**S Landreth** · 16-05-2009, 04:15 AM

Friday, May 15, 2009

Here's an actual news story: Cheney used torture to prove non-existent Al Qaeda/Iraq link

by Joe Sudbay (DC)

Dick Cheney wanted to got to war against Iraq. He lied about it. Bush lied about it. But, we're supposed to believe that they never lied to Congress about torture. Right. That may work with D.C.'s traditional media, but not anyone who actually remembers 2002.

There is an even more disturbing aspect to this story. It may be too much for the traditional media to handle. We're learning that Cheney used torture to "prove" the links between al Qaeda and Iraq -- because nothing else was finding the information he wanted.

Colin Powell's former Chief of Staff Larry Wilkerson explained his findings at The Washington Note:

Likewise, what I have learned is that as the administration authorized harsh interrogation in April and May of 2002--well before the Justice Department had rendered any legal opinion--its principal priority for intelligence was not aimed at pre-empting another terrorist attack on the U.S. but discovering a smoking gun linking Iraq and al-Qa'ida.

So furious was this effort that on one particular detainee, even when the interrogation team had reported to Cheney's office that their detainee "was compliant" (meaning the team recommended no more torture), the VP's office ordered them to continue the enhanced methods. The detainee had not revealed any al-Qa'ida-Baghdad contacts yet. This ceased only after Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, under waterboarding in Egypt, "revealed" such contacts. Of course later we learned that al-Libi revealed these contacts only to get the torture to stop.

There in fact were no such contacts. (Incidentally, al-Libi just "committed suicide" in Libya. Interestingly, several U.S. lawyers working with tortured detainees were attempting to get the Libyan government to allow them to interview al-Libi....)

That same assertion was made by an Army psychiatrist who monitored the torture:

And an Army psychiatrist assigned to support questioning of suspected terrorists at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp in Cuba told the service's inspector-general that interrogators there were trying to connect al Qaeda and Iraq.

"This is my opinion," Maj. Paul Burney told the inspector-general's office. "Even though they were giving information and some of it was useful, while we were there a large part of the time we were focused on trying to establish a link between aI Qaeda and Iraq and we were not being successful in establishing a link between aI Qaeda and Iraq. The more frustrated people got in not being able to establish this link ... there was more and more pressure to resort to measures that might produce more immediate results."

That's the story the traditional media should be covering -- intensely.

Instead, reporters and pundits are agog that Nancy Pelosi would have the audacity to say the Bush administration lied to Congress back in 2002-3. The Bush administration lied to the American people every day. And, torture was the only way they could connect al Qaeda to Iraq. Digby succinctly explained it for us:

By now there is overwhelming evidence that Cheney was desperate to find a connection between Iraq and 9/11. He pressured the CIA. He outed a CIA agent. He went on television and said that it was proven. What we didn't know until recently was the extent to which he was pressuring the CIA to torture false confessions out of prisoners to back up his claims. Much of that still remains cloudy, but it's quite clear to sentient beings that there were people involved in the torture regime who had to know very well that the torture they employed was designed to produce false confessions. The CIA and the top echelons of the Pentagon and the White House simply aren't that dumb.

But, the Bush White House knew it could count on a compliant press corps, which simply was -- and is -- that dumb or dumbstruck.

A lot of people died because of Bush's lies and Cheney's torture. But, you know, the D.C. establishment doesn't like to re-visit the past, especially when it exposes their failures.

Link: http://www.americablog.com/2009/05/heres-actual-news-story-cheney-used.html

**Boon Mee** · 16-05-2009, 03:44 PM

America blog? Might as well cite Kos Files talking points.
Highly partisan to say the least...

**panama hat** · 16-05-2009, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Highly partisan to say the least...

BM, sometimes you are hilarious . . . and a good read, even though you're a knuckle-dragger.

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