EU votes to unify rules on detention of migrants

**sabang** · 24-06-2008, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Texpat

The length of their confinement varies from 32 days in France to 18 months in Germany. In eight EU countries there is no upper limit on detention. European legislators visiting Denmark in April said they were concerned about some detainees who had been held for eight years.

It does seem that your chronic "Y'all pikkin on Amerka" syndrome has affected your reading skills Tex. Thats Denmark you're referring to, not the whole EU

. The new legislation would standardise the maximum term at 18 months throughout the EU, which makes sense to me.

As long as they are promptly thrown back to where they came from afterwards that is.

This is where Australia is, yet again, the Lucky Country. We just turf them into the remote desert at Woomera detention centre, or even remoter Christmas Island. The do gooders obviously don't like it, but they don't seem all that keen to go and visit them there too often.

**Norton** · 24-06-2008, 03:27 PM

The world is faced with epidemic illegal immigration. Every nation has the right to pass laws dealing with illegal entry into their country. The EU in attempting to pass "directives" regarding limits to detention again point out the futility of getting consensus among such a diverse set of members. I say the EU should leave the punishment of illegals and for that matter any other criminal behavior to the individual member countries.

People who choose to enter a country illegally no matter what the reason better be ready to risk the punishment as per the law of the land. Personally, I think some of the laws in the OP are OTT and others far to lenient. Let the citizens of each nation decide because it is only they that have to deal with the illegal immigrants.

To paraphrase a frequent TD poster, "if you can't do the time don't do the crime".

**gdk** · 24-06-2008, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by lysander

Originally Posted by Texpat

Oh dear ... this isn't nearly as much fun as I had hoped.

It won't be. Us Yuropeens don't make a habit of defending the indefensible even when our governments are involved. Banging someone up for 8 years (or 8 days) without due process is wrong.

JUST SEND THEM BACK AND DROP THEM OF A C13O (NO SHUTE) in Belguim most people are fed-up with the north african and permanent students of the ex Congo
gdk

**Seekingasylum** · 24-06-2008, 04:56 PM

Tex's feeble attempt to draw an analogy between the EU's incarceration of illegal migrants and the US abduction of imagined terrorists and detention in concentration camps where torture abounds is typical of lame propagandists incapable of thinking beyond their monochromatic slogans. Goebbels meets Disneyland in an obscene coupling and there you have it- the American political consciousness articulated in all its perverse glory interpreted through the distorting prism of profound stupidity.

Let's try again. The illegal migrants currently detained in the EU are failed asylum seekers who have contrived at their fate by resolutely refusing to cooperate in their return to their countries of origin. They choose detention thinking that the the EU resolve will weaken and they will eventually be released into a community that to them offers infinitely more reward than at home, wherever that may be. In many cases they are failed asylum seekers who at one stage were at large but then committed crimes resulting in imprisonment that has been extended whilst attempts to document them are pursued.

That many are prepared to wait out the standoff with the authorities in detention throughout the EU in preference to freedom in their own countries could be construed as a compliment to the prison regimes in force, something that one could never accuse of the American concentration camps.

**Norton** · 24-06-2008, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by thegent

That many are prepared to wait out the standoff with the authorities in detention throughout the EU in preference to freedom in their own countries could be construed as a compliment to the prison regimes in force, something that one could never accuse of the American concentration camps.

US law for illegal immigrants, maximum punishment up to 6 months. Seldom applied. Most are immediately deported. Hardly concentration camp treatment.

**Seekingasylum** · 24-06-2008, 07:32 PM

I was referring to Gitmo and other places used by the Americans to detain and interrogate abducted people they imagine to be terrorists.

I would have thought that was obvious.

**Norton** · 24-06-2008, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by thegent

I was referring to Gitmo and other places used by the Americans to detain and interrogate abducted people they imagine to be terrorists. I would have thought that was obvious.

I must have been confused by the OP!

**sabang** · 24-06-2008, 10:02 PM

The problem with the 'each country to their own' system in the EU is that of pass the buck. Thousands of II's pass thru' France on their way to the UK- you can see footage of them waiting to jump on freight trains to take them under the Chunnel. The French don't care- as long as they're not staying, thats the UK's problem.

**Norton** · 24-06-2008, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

The problem with the 'each country to their own' system in the EU is that of pass the buck.

Sure can't get to jolly old England by land without passing through some other country. If France doesn't do anything to detain IIs it is an issue unrelated to punishment/detention. I maintain the punishment needs to be determined by each country as it has been prior to the EU getting involved. Some will deem much harsher punishment than others depending on the negative impact of II in their society. As best I can determine from the OP, the EU has given directives but the UK and Denmark have opted out. Seems the EU is trying to impose laws which can be ignored if a country opts out making it all an EU exercise in futility.

**sabang** · 26-06-2008, 08:23 AM

I don't know about futility, but if you follow the machinations of the EU and it's various squabbling members, it sure does seem an excercise in folly on a regular basis. In some ways like the UN- a great and perhaps necessary idea, but in execution more noteworthy for it's squabbling and inefficiency than anything else.

Then, if you look closer at the way the whole bureaucratic monster is set up, what profligacy, what wastefulness.

All paid for by you know who. The European Parliament for example (the worlds second largest Parliamentary electorate after India) meets in two seperate places- Strasbourg, France and Brussels. The cost of moving the Parliamentarians, their offices, documents and bureaucratic staff between the two, several times per year, is gynormous. Not to mention the cost of maintaining the two seperate facilities, which sit idle half the time. How ridiculous.

Yet you would be a brave man to argue that the EU has not been of major benefit to it's members. In fact, these days it's hard to imagine Europe without the EU. Much of this benefit has in effect been achieved through standardisation, and removal of barriers to trade and movement of people. Considering also that throughout history most of it's members have been at war with each other, the diplomatic benefits of the EU are not to be dismissed either- hard to imagine the UK giving France a hiding these days, except maybe in the Press. Or the Germanics trying to take over the place again.

So, back on topic, where the EU can agree (big If) there are tangible benefits that are achieved through co-operation and standardisation, cost being the most obvious. Illegal Immigration is an example- the biggest II problem is obviously with the richest nations. So the poorer EU nations would take the understandable attitude 'not my ploblem John'. But if the EU were to painstakingly go along the road of treating the Issue as an EU problem, and tackle it on a combined basis, the cost savings and efectiveness that could thus be achieved would be substantial. Incidentally, illegal immigration does effect the poorer members of the EU too- that II fresh off the train is not competing for the job of the well paid City stockbroker. He is however competing for the job of the Polish Odd Job man, who has legally moved his family to the UK (or Germany, or wherever) to take advantage of the money on offer, in the hopes of a better future. The national security Issues are also not just with the rich countries- Poland was part of the coalition of the villains too, so the odd Islamic loony would be quite happy to set off a bomb in Warsaw.

Standardising detention terms, imo, is a step in the right direction. The ultimate aim being treating illegal immigration as an EU issue, not just an issue for the country of their intended destination. Ideally, there would be combined EU II detention centres one day (preferably somewhere real nice, like some windswept barren Island in the North Sea. You can learn from the Aussies

) It works- whatever the reservations of the bleeding hearts, the plain fact is far less people try to smuggle themselves into Australia these days thanks to the approach of the Howard government than used to be the case.

**Ivor Biggun** · 26-06-2008, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Well, terrorists at Gitmo are a dam sight more dangerous to society than folks

How many of those, so called terrorists, have had a fair trial to prove that they are terrorists ? Nelson Mandela was once a terrorist but I bet you'd be happy to shake his hand now and call him a freedom fighter and a friend ?

**sabang** · 26-06-2008, 08:59 AM

Unless Gitmo is turned into an II detention facility, comparing it to the EU is utterly meaningless. Not one of Tex' more erudite afforts at reciprocation.

The US is quite different to the EU anyway in it's attitude towards, and treatment of, II's. Just like the EU, the people of the US do not like it. But those who have the Money, power and who run the Government pay lip service to the Issue to assuage the electorate, but in reality they don't mind it at all because they benefit from the cheap labour.

Being more open minded about it, you might say the EU has a source of cheap labour within it's borders anyway, being the newer, poorer member states. The US does not, apart from it's abysmally low minimum wages.

**Texpat** · 26-06-2008, 12:41 PM

Banged up for eight years as an illegal alien.

Absolutely shameful.

**lysander** · 28-06-2008, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by Texpat

Banged up for eight years as an illegal alien.

Absolutely shameful.

It must be hugely frustrating trying to argue with people who agree with you

**lysander** · 29-06-2008, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by lysander

Originally Posted by Texpat

Banged up for eight years as an illegal alien.

Absolutely shameful.

It must be hugely frustrating trying to argue with people who agree with you

Although not quite as bad as inept attempts to start provocative threads which turn into serious and interesting conversations

**sunderlandstephen** · 29-06-2008, 08:18 AM

A truely distressing piece of legislation, didn`t see any mention of torture or is that hidden in plain site a la Guantanamo

**Texpat** · 29-06-2008, 04:42 PM

Show me evidence of torture in Guantanamo. Never happen.

And nobody's been banged up there for 8 years.

**lysander** · 30-06-2008, 05:27 AM

Thread: EU votes to unify rules on detention of migrants

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