Global Warming or The End to Global Civilization

**John L** · 24-06-2008, 08:33 AM

Yeah, that will work! put oil company executives on show-trial, and then take away their company. That way, they will ALL flee the US, and leave the State to Bugger up everything, like they always do. That's just great.

Hansen is a Buggering Idiot! He should be removed from outside Washington(Goddard Space Center) and sent to someplace like BumF-ck Australia, in the Outback, where he can talk to the Roos.

**Butterfly** · 24-06-2008, 08:51 AM

^ Hi john, glad to see you could make it back, and that your obsession about Global Warning hasn't gone,

**barbaro** · 24-06-2008, 11:11 AM

Here's another article. It's from Hansen but a little more technical:

Burning fossil fuels like coal is the chief cause of man-made greenhouse gases. Hansen said the Earth's atmosphere has got to get back to a level of 350 parts of carbon dioxide per million. Last month, it was 10% higher: 386.7 parts per million.

NASA warming scientist: 'This is the last chance'
June 24, 2008

WASHINGTON (AP) — Exactly 20 years after warning America about global warming, a top NASA scientist said the situation has gotten so bad that the world's only hope is drastic action.

James Hansen told Congress on Monday that the world has long passed the "dangerous level" for greenhouse gases in the atmosphere and needs to get back to 1988 levels. He said Earth's atmosphere can only stay this loaded with man-made carbon dioxide for a couple more decades without changes such as mass extinction, ecosystem collapse and dramatic sea level rises.

"We're toast if we don't get on a very different path," Hansen, director of the Goddard Institute of Space Sciences who is sometimes called the godfather of global warming science, told The Associated Press. "This is the last chance.

Link & Entire: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science...g_N.htm?csp=34

bkkmadness · 24-06-2008, 11:29 AM

Our civilization needs culling. A deadly virus, an environmental disaster, a nuclear war, something is in the post and it's going to be here soon. Our population will soon be reduced significantly by one or a combination of these events, and I think only then we will be able to look at ourselves and the direction humanity is going and make that change in thinking that is needed for our continued survival.

**Seekingasylum** · 24-06-2008, 06:58 PM

The notion that " man " can get round the table and discuss what direction his fortunes should take is as fanciful as the idiotic view that history is an orderly progression of intent and not a record of uncontrollable dynamism only fully understood in hindsight.

Presumably, you are a young person Maddy?

Global warming as an instrument of self destruction is a sociological phenomenon and has very little to do with science beyond the securing of fat funding from governments driven to ever new methods of taxation occasionally dressed up as a sop to third world sentimentality.

As Einstein quipped, stupidity is the only real threat facing mankind.

bkkmadness · 25-06-2008, 02:39 AM

Yes I am young, well, hanging on to youth anyway.

But I don't see why age and experience changes our thinking too much on this, and I fail to see why a look at out past history has any relevance. The reason being we have never had our population culled by a major disaster yet, and I'm talking a pretty much full wipe out of population here, a good 80% reduction due to some series of events.

At a point like this, I have hope (yes it is mainly hope I base my theory on) that a revolution in the way humanity conducts itself will take place.

We're are actually a very young species, that is evolving (in our thinking/society etc.) at a very, very fast rate, a rate so fast that our future actions are to a degree quite unpredictable. I'd go so far to say it's naive to consider a species as intelligent as humans will never learn from it's past mistakes and not have the capability to plan their future.

Whether that plan works or not is a different matter. I hope for utopia, but expect chaos.

**Butterfly** · 25-06-2008, 10:10 AM

Maddy, you will find that men never learn from their past, hence past is a very good indication of their future,

even after a disaster, there is little chance we will have learn anything, and we would keep growing and growing until the next disaster,

we don't make the calls, our human conditions do, we are slaves

**barbaro** · 27-06-2008, 08:00 AM

I'm not a scientist so I can delve into this much, but I think this reveals a warming trend, whether this warming is man-made or not.

Exclusive: No ice at the North Pole

Polar scientists reveal dramatic new evidence of climate change
By Steve Connor, Science Editor
Friday, 27 June 2008

Independent Graphic
It seems unthinkable, but for the first time in human history, ice is on course to disappear entirely from the North Pole this year.
The disappearance of the Arctic sea ice, making it possible to reach the Pole sailing in a boat through open water, would be one of the most dramatic – and worrying – examples of the impact of global warming on the planet. Scientists say the ice at 90 degrees north may well have melted away by the summer.

"From the viewpoint of science, the North Pole is just another point on the globe, but symbolically it is hugely important. There is supposed to be ice at the North Pole, not open water," said Mark Serreze of the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre in Colorado.

Link:

Exclusive: No ice at the North Pole - Climate Change, Environment - The Independent

**Dalton** · 29-06-2008, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by thegent

As Einstein quipped, stupidity is the only real threat facing mankind.

If you replace stupidity with greed, then you nailed it..

**Marmite the Dog** · 29-06-2008, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Milkman

I'm not a scientist so I can delve into this much, but I think this reveals a warming trend, whether this warming is man-made or not.

Exclusive: No ice at the North Pole

Polar scientists reveal dramatic new evidence of climate change
By Steve Connor, Science Editor
Friday, 27 June 2008

Independent Graphic
It seems unthinkable, but for the first time in human history, ice is on course to disappear entirely from the North Pole this year.
The disappearance of the Arctic sea ice, making it possible to reach the Pole sailing in a boat through open water, would be one of the most dramatic – and worrying – examples of the impact of global warming on the planet. Scientists say the ice at 90 degrees north may well have melted away by the summer.

"From the viewpoint of science, the North Pole is just another point on the globe, but symbolically it is hugely important. There is supposed to be ice at the North Pole, not open water," said Mark Serreze of the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre in Colorado.

Link:

Exclusive: No ice at the North Pole - Climate Change, Environment - The Independent

This isn't a new phenomenon though. Less than 600 years ago the sea to the north of Greenland was open water during some summers, and I'm sure that it has happened many other times in the past.

**EmperorTud** · 29-06-2008, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by bkkmadness

But I don't see why age and experience changes our thinking too much on this, and I fail to see why a look at out past history has any relevance. The reason being we have never had our population culled by a major disaster yet, and I'm talking a pretty much full wipe out of population here, a good 80% reduction due to some series of events.

The World's Elite subscribe to such a theory, and are indeed actively planning such a cull, of an estimated 80% of the World's population.

Globalisation and government are the tools with which this aim will be achieved.
Three superstates; one in Asia, the EU and the Americas are slowly being created then there will eventually be a World Government.

bkkmadness · 29-06-2008, 02:05 PM

A new world order is certainly on it's way whether orchestrated or not, but I disagree with BF's post that men do not learn from their history. I see a glimmer of hope for our future.

I was meaning to provide a longer post regarding this actually, will do so later.

**Bugs** · 14-11-2008, 10:58 AM

Couldn’t be bothered to start a new thread for this.

In any case the pollution from China and India is getting a bit out of hand don’t yea think?
Brown clouds threaten world food supply - World environment

Brown clouds dim Asia, threaten world's food
U.N.: Pollution haze could lead to extreme weather, harm farming

BEIJING - Thick brown clouds of soot, particles and chemicals stretching from the Persian Gulf to Asia threaten health and food supplies in the world, the U.N. reported Thursday, citing what it called the newest threat to the global environment.

The regional haze, known as atmospheric brown clouds, contributes to glacial melting, reduces sunlight and helps create extreme weather conditions that impact agricultural production, according to the report commissioned by the U.N. Environment Program.

The huge plumes have darkened 13 megacities in Asia — including Beijing, Shanghai, Bangkok, Cairo, Mumbai and New Delhi — sharply "dimming" the amount of light by as much as 25 percent in some places.

Caused by the burning of fossil fuels, wood and plants, the brown clouds also play a significant role in exacerbating the effects of greenhouse gases in warming up the earth's atmosphere, the report said.

"Imagine for a moment a 3-kilometer-thick band of soot, particles, a cocktail of chemicals that stretches from the Arabic Peninsula to Asia," said Achim Steiner, U.N. undersecretary general and executive director of the U.N. environment program.

"All of this points to an even greater and urgent need to look at emissions across the planet because this is where the stories are linked in terms of greenhouse emissions and particle emissions and the impact that they're having on our global climate," he said.

I think South Korea and Japan might start to get a little peeved before too long.

**Takeovers** · 22-11-2008, 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Global Warming or The End to Global Civilization

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Speaking of China, did you know that emission standards in China are better than those in the US ?

When I was in school a new Ice Age was the hype of the day, caused by industrial air pollution. That's been cleared up. China will do the same with it's coal powerplants in the next 20-30 years. Of course this time the air pollutions is named as the reason for an accelerated melting of the south polar ice caps.

But I have learned in school also about CO2 as a greenhouse gas, that makes the earth habitable. So if we double the amount of CO2 something is bound to happen. I do believe it is global warming. No amount of anecdotal evidence about cold winters in Canada or Australia changes that.

But why is change always expected to be to the worse only?

There is no reason to think that. Present estimates point to an increas of sealevel of max. 25cm until the end of this century, probably less. That will cause major problems, but is this a global catastropy? I don't think so. It may affect the Maldives but the present problems there are not due to the rise of the seas by a few millimeters. It's just convenient to blame an almost non existent rise in sealevel.

Agriculture will be affected. Agriculture will have to adapt. No adaption would lead to disaster. But agriculture can and will adapt. In total the changes over the next 100 years may be even positive in result.

We will have to change to renewable energies some time in this century, I believe. But its no use to throw multi billions of Dollars or Euro on renewables when the technology is not yet there to solve the problem

**Texpat** · 22-11-2008, 01:43 AM

Shut up and pay the man...

Isn't Sputterfly always moaning on about how others are being force fed wacky ideas?

**Butterfly** · 22-11-2008, 08:52 AM

^ you wouldn't know what a wacky idea is in the first place. You think killing women and children is ethical.

**Rattanaburi** · 18-01-2009, 02:40 PM

President 'has four years to save Earth'

US must take the lead to avert eco-disaster

President Obama 'has four years to save Earth' | Environment | The Observer

Barack Obama has only four years to save the world. That is the stark assessment of Nasa scientist and leading climate expert Jim Hansen who last week warned only urgent action by the new president could halt the devastating climate change that now threatens Earth. Crucially, that action will have to be taken within Obama's first administration, he added.
Soaring carbon emissions are already causing ice-cap melting and threaten to trigger global flooding, widespread species loss and major disruptions of weather patterns in the near future. "We cannot afford to put off change any longer," said Hansen. "We have to get on a new path within this new administration. We have only four years left for Obama to set an example to the rest of the world. America must take the lead."
Hansen said current carbon levels in the atmosphere were already too high to prevent runaway greenhouse warming. Yet the levels are still rising despite all the efforts of politicians and scientists.
Only the US now had the political muscle to lead the world and halt the rise, Hansen said. Having refused to recognise that global warming posed any risk at all over the past eight years, the US now had to take a lead as the world's greatest carbon emitter and the planet's largest economy. Cap-and-trade schemes, in which emission permits are bought and sold, have failed, he said, and must now be replaced by a carbon tax that will imposed on all producers of fossil fuels. At the same time, there must be a moratorium on new power plants that burn coal - the world's worst carbon emitter.
Hansen - head of the Goddard Institute of Space Studies and winner of the WWF's top conservation award - first warned Earth was in danger from climate change in 1988 and has been the victim of several unsuccessful attempts by the White House administration of George Bush to silence his views.
Hansen's institute monitors temperature fluctuations at thousands of sites round the world, data that has led him to conclude that most estimates of sea level rises triggered by rising atmospheric temperatures are too low and too conservative. For example, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says a rise of between 20cm and 60cm can be expected by the end of the century.
However, Hansen said feedbacks in the climate system are already accelerating ice melt and are threatening to lead to the collapse of ice sheets. Sea-level rises will therefore be far greater - a claim backed last week by a group of British, Danish and Finnish scientists who said studies of past variations in climate indicate that a far more likely figure for sea-level rise will be about 1.4 metres, enough to cause devastating flooding of many of the world's major cities and of low-lying areas of Holland, Bangladesh and other nations.
As a result of his fears about sea-level rise, Hansen said he had pressed both Britain's Royal Society and the US National Academy of Sciences to carry out an urgent investigation of the state of the planet's ice-caps. However, nothing had come of his proposals. The first task of Obama's new climate office should therefore be to order such a probe "as a matter of urgency", Hansen added.

**S Landreth** · 16-02-2009, 05:47 AM

Sunday, February 15, 2009
Global warming "underestimated"2/15/2009 05: 02: 00 PM ET</B>

Oh great

Professor Chris Field, an author of a 2007 landmark report on climate change, said future temperatures "will be beyond anything" predicted.

Prof Field said the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report had underestimated the rate of change.
He said warming is likely to cause more environmental damage than forecast.

Speaking at the American Science conference in Chicago, Prof Field said fresh data showed greenhouse gas emissions between 2000 and 2007 increased far more rapidly than expected.

"We are basically looking now at a future climate that is beyond anything that we've considered seriously in climate policy," he said.

Prof Field said the 2007 report, which predicted temperature rises between 1.1C and 6.4C over the next century, seriously underestimated the scale of the problem.

He said the increases in carbon dioxide have been caused, principally, by the burning of coal for electric power in India and China.

link: http://www.americablog.com/2009/02/global-warming-underestimated.html

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