Thread: US Comes In Last Place

France is healthcare leader, US comes dead last: study - Yahoo! News

France is healthcare leader, US comes dead last: study

Absolutley pathetic. Even the UK beat us

WASHINGTON (AFP) - France is tops, and the United States dead last, in providing timely and effective healthcare to its citizens, according to a survey Tuesday of preventable deaths in 19 industrialized countries.
The study by the Commonwealth Fund and published in the January/February issue of the journal Health Affairs measured developed countries' effectiveness at providing timely and effective healthcare.
The study, entitled "Measuring the Health of Nations: Updating an Earlier Analysis," was written by researchers from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. It looked at death rates in subjects younger than 75 that could have been prevented by timely and effective medical care.
The researchers found that while most countries surveyed saw preventable deaths decline by an average of 16 percent, the United States saw only a four percent dip.
The non-profit Commonwealth Fund, which financed the study, expressed alarm at the findings.
"It is startling to see the US falling even farther behind on this crucial indicator of health system performance," said Commonwealth Fund Senior Vice President Cathy Schoen, who noted that "other countries are reducing these preventable deaths more rapidly, yet spending far less."
The 19 countries, in order of best to worst, were: France, Japan, Australia, Austria, Canada, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States.
Some countries showed dramatic improvement in the periods studied -- 1997 and 1998 and again between 2002 and 2003 -- outpacing the United States, which showed only slight improvement.
White the United States ranked 15th of 19 between 1997-98, by 2002-03 it had fallen to last place.
"It is notable that all countries have improved substantially except the US," said Ellen Nolte, lead author of the study.
Had the United States performed as well as any of the top three industrialized countries, there would have been 101,000 fewer deaths per year, the researchers said

Originally Posted by chitown

France is healthcare leader, US comes dead last: study Absolutley pathetic. Even the UK beat us

It is pathetic and won't be remedied until the politicians get the balls to take on the AMA and the Pharmaceuticals. Until then we will all keep listening to the BS from the medical establishment thinking how incredibly wonderful our health care system is.

Originally Posted by Norton

Until then we will all keep listening to the BS from the medical establishment thinking how incredibly wonderful our health care system is.

Don't have to go far for it either, Boon Mee usually posts it all on here.

"Dead" last is fairly apt.

What I don't consider apt is that to get medical coverage for a trip to the states I'd have to double my yearly premium. Of course I ticked the box which said no thanks.

So how can the developed worlds worst health care system also be it's most expensive ? (Rhetorical question).

Not really sure how that works out, But prices of doing business do have something to do with it.
Here if you go to a hospital they do have a bunch of nurses, not sure how many are required and have no idea how many they have here or in the hospitals in the USA, but here to be in a hospital, at least the one I was in, you have to have your own care person as a nurse will not do it, They will bring your meds and leave them somewhere in your room, they might be the ones your doctor told you to take, or they might be the ones that he told you not to take anymore after his visit yesterday, so you better stay on top of it.
I have never heard of a Mal practice suit or case here, if they make a mistake with your meds or treatment then it is just tough shit, you will have to fight them right down the line to ever get any further treatment or treatment to rectify any mistakes that were made. And I do have a friend that had eye surgery that went a little wrong, he fought with the doctor for a year before anything was done and he was damn near blind.

Meds that are made in the UK and sold here and in the states do sell for a large difference in price, most are cheaper by 60% to 80% here than the same brands sold in the states.

I am on some meds that should be checked with frequent blood tests to see what they are doing in the blood, I am given overly high doses of them, as to what is listed for my age, have been on them for almost a year and have never had a blood test, have never been warned or cautioned by anyone as to what to watch out for or told about side effects.

As to what I have seen in the states, Mexico and Here, you get about the same care in Mexico and Thailand, and far superior care in the states, but you do pay more for it.

But I think that Medical care is similar to buying food for your horse,
If you want first class, clean oats right out of the sack with no dirt,mold or spoiled oats then you should expect to pay top price for top quality feed.

But if you are willing to settle for oats of lesser quality that have already been thru a horse, then you can expect to get them for less money..

Up To You.

Originally Posted by blackgang

But I think that Medical care is similar to buying food for your horse,
If you want first class, clean oats right out of the sack with no dirt,mold or spoiled oats then you should expect to pay top price for top quality feed.

But if you are willing to settle for oats of lesser quality that have already been thru a horse, then you can expect to get them for less money..

Up To You.

...

So you are equating US medical care to oats of a lesser quality that have already been through a horse but are really expensive?

Because the point of the article is that the US is last of 19 industrialised nations. And further to that, it's one of if not the most expensive.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

So you are equating US medical care to oats of a lesser quality that have already been through a horse but are really expensive? Because the point of the article is that the US is last of 19 industrialised nations. And further to that, it's one of if not the most expensive.

Capitalism in a nutsack, you pay for high quality oats but get nothing but shit..

^ I'd say largely because of malpratice suits.

A national and global embarrassment of epic proportions. Time for real reform on this issue.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

I'd say largely because of malpratice suits.

Ahh, the bitter fruit of a litigous society. Certainly doesn't help but I think the problem runs deeper than that, it's that the whole system seems to be an exercise in money making for large corporations. The actual health of the people/paitents being almost entirely incidental to the bottom line of profit.

^I think Ant is getting closer to the truth. Litigation is a large part of it, but many states have instituted litigation reform capping the amount of awards for medical malpractice.

The problem runs much deeper and is institutional.

I originally read the thread in an involuntarily interested way - I mean the possibilities are endless!

As it goes, was a little boring...

Babies at risk: Memphis confronts infant mortality


This baby in the newborn intensive care unit of the Regional Medical Center at Memphis has an abnormal heart. A 2002 federal report found that Memphis had an infant mortality rate more than twice the national average.


Dr. Sheldon Korones started the newborn intensive care unit at the Regional Center at Memphis in 1968 and still roams it day and night.

The rate at which infants die in the United States has dropped substantially over the past half-century, but broad disparities remain among racial groups, and the country stacks up poorly next to other industrialized nations.

In 2004, the most recent year for which statistics are available, roughly seven babies died for every 1,000 live births before reaching their first birthday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says. That was down from about 26 in 1960.

Babies born to black mothers died at two and a half times the rate of those born to white mothers, according to the CDC figures.

The United States ranks near the bottom for infant survival rates among modernized nations. A Save the Children report last year placed the United States ahead of only Latvia, and tied with Hungary, Malta, Poland and Slovakia.

The same report noted the United States had more neonatologists and newborn intensive care beds per person than Australia, Canada and the United Kingdom but still had a higher rate of infant mortality than any of those nations.

Doctors and analysts blame broad disparities in access to health care among racial and income groups in the United States.

more at: Babies at risk: Memphis confronts infant mortality - USATODAY.com

It's for the US people to decide if the current system is adequate, or if it should be improved for the average person. It comes down to tax dollars, or the allocation thereof. If I were American, I would be asking why my country needs to spend over half the worlds military expenditure- funded by the public- when the publig health care system is the worst in the developed world. Maybe spend, say, 45% of the worlds total military budget and allocate the money saved to health care and education.

To a non American westerner, it seems quite ironic that the same rich country that has the worlds most advanced medical technology, and facilities like Johns Hopkins and the Mayo Clinic, also has some of the highest rates of infant mortality in the developed world, and indeed a lower life expectancy than most other advanced nations.

Whilst it never got off the ground, I have to say Hillary's attempts at intiating a reform of the health care system seem a good idea.

I new I'd lure Hootad into this.

Originally Posted by Hootad Binky

Are you a brain surgeon? Cardiologist? How is it you know better than qualified doctors?

Nope. I decided to pursue a different career path. But, I am smart enough to question the treatment and get second or third opinions. And I don't need to be a brain surgeon to know that you do not do brain surgery without a few days prep on a patient, and you do not do surgery like that on a patient in the last stages of terminal cancer.

Originally Posted by Hootad Binky

...quadruple bypass surgery is caused by obesity, but somehow everything is the fault of the Canadian system.

555555 So, you are the research expert and doc now, Hootad? FYI, my ex is probably underweight by any standards, does not smoke, rarely drinks, and eats healthy foods, because he's a Chinese acupuncturist and herbalist. Must be that toxic Canadian city air that caused it.

Originally Posted by Hootad Binky

Ambulance stopped at border
U.S. guards force victim to identify himself

Why was this guy going to the States for treatment if it's free in Canada?

Originally Posted by Hootad Binky

Meanwhile, Americans, in their hundreds of thousands, use the Canadian system fraudulently and for free.

Is that why the system in Canada is shite? Let non-taxpayers use it for free? Thought you needed a healthcare card to get service.

Originally Posted by Hootad Binky

Do you really think you get free brain/heart surgery in the US for $50 a month?
Or should Canada and the US just join Blue Cross en masse? Quick! Someone tell the US candidates! We have a solution!

Why not? Then docs and nurses in Canada would get paid what they deserve and patients would get better service. Also, why not force the fat, lazy Canadians who abuse the system to join a fitness centre.

...The United States ranks near the bottom for infant survival rates among modernized nations. A Save the Children report last year placed the United States ahead of only Latvia, and tied with Hungary, Malta, Poland and Slovakia...

When you read that alongside the fact of the billion's spent annually on 'defence' that's simply appalling.

Originally Posted by Milkman

This may mean (I don't know) that there are two types of medical systems in the US. Much like the legal system. If you can afford a Dream Team of lawyers you can more likely get off, or get a lessor penalty. Same with health care, and preventative care.

Yep, valid point. The sad reality of it all I suppose.

"A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." - Ghandi

Originally Posted by Texpat

Finally, a fact that is routinely ignored in this debate is scale. You can't expect a behemoth like the US to operate with the same efficiency as a gnats like Ireland or Finland

I don't really think that's a valid point of contention. As you've pointed out the study itself isn't linked to (I'd also like to see it myself, I'm curious exactly what the diseases are they looked at) but it's a fair guess to say that it was conducted per capita (the quoted figures are in percentages). Likewise it would be safe to assume teh researchers who compiled it used a statistically valid method.

Besides all of which, if you're going to use that as a factor then you also have to account for the fact that the US is wealthier as well.

written by researchers from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, who derive no greater pleasure in life than to make themselves feel superior to others, especially Americans.

It might be valid.