Hamas Attack, breakout from Gaza many rockets fired

**DrWilly** · 08-10-2023, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by OhOh

"Imagine the reaction in the Christian world if Muslims entered St. Peter’s Basilica and forcibly ejected Christian worshippers from that sanctuary. Maybe that parallel example will help you appreciate why muslims, not just Hamas, are reacting with such vitriol."

Imagine the reaction in the rest of the world…oh don’t need to imagine

**taxexile** · 08-10-2023, 10:14 PM

Iran encourages others to join attacks
The president of Iran has urged other Muslim countries to join in attacks on Israel, after a call with Hamas on Sunday.

did someone say this has nothing to do with religion?

**taxexile** · 08-10-2023, 10:53 PM

Saudi-Israel normalisation may have motivated attack, says US.

Another interesting line from an interview this morning with Antony Blinken, the US Secretary of State (see post at 14.56).

He suggests that the recent rapprochement between Israel and Saudi Arabia may have motivated the Hamas attacks yesterday.

“It wouldn’t be a surprise that part of the motivation may have been to disrupt efforts to bring Saudi Arabia and Israel together, along with other countries that may be interested in normalizing relations with Israel,” Mr Blinken told CNN.

Benjamin Netanyahu said last month he believed his country was on the cusp of peace with Saudi Arabia, predicting it could reshape the Middle East.

The Telegraph

Hamas are not in the least bit interested in peace with Israel, and as other middle eastern countries move towards pragmatically normalising relations with israel, hamas fear that they will become increasingly irrelevant, and the iranian cock they love sucking will dry up, hence the attention seeking attack.

the israelis have every right to defend their hard won territory, and if that means razing gaza and south lebanon to the ground, then so be it. justice will be served, and a vile regime will have been vapourized.

the weak west, too concerned with climate and gender crap, should learn from the israelis when it comes to dealing with the murderous putin , the women hating iranian pigs and any other neanderthal chest beating tyrants that come along.

talk softly, but carry a fucking big stick, and dont be afraid to use it.

**pickel** · 08-10-2023, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by taxexile

hard won territory

Using the IDF to forcibly remove Palestinians from their homes, bulldoze the land and then "settle" it with religious zealots aren't exactly heroic battles tax.

**helge** · 09-10-2023, 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by taxexile

Hamas are not in the least bit interested in peace with Israel

Since 1994,^[46] the group has frequently stated that it would accept a truce^[i] if Israel withdraws to the 1967 borders, paid reparations, allowed free elections in the territories^[48] and gave Palestinian refugees the right to return.^[j]

**Seekingasylum** · 09-10-2023, 02:52 AM

Poor Tax, the Telegraph seems to have riled him into a splenetic frenzy of loathing.

A sobering statistic, since 2008 the Israelis have killed 6408 Palestinians, the Palestinians 308 Israelis.

Those figures will of course need some amendment after yesterday but the disparity looks to be the same.

The IDF seems to get more Russian by the decade in suppressing resistance to their subjugation of the Palestinians.

The beatings, demolition of houses and intimidation is of course of no consequence to the English press which consistently ignores the injustice of it all.

**misskit** · 09-10-2023, 06:33 AM

Hamas spokesman says Iran gave support for surprise attack on Israel

Hamas spokesman Ghazi Hamad tells the BBC that Iran gave its support to the Palestinian terror group to launch its surprise multi-front attack on Israel on Saturday, as cited by Hebrew media.

The unprecedented attack saw 300 Israeli civilians and security forces killed, over 1,000 injured, and an unknown number of people — women, children, men, elderly people, and soldiers — abducted from southern Israel and taken into the Gaza Strip.

Tehran is a key backer of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, as well as Lebanese terror group Hezbollah.

Hamas spokesman says Iran gave support for surprise attack on Israel | The Times of Israel

**taxexile** · 09-10-2023, 07:01 AM

seems to be a lot of misplaced sympathy for hamas here, seeing them as righteous freedom fighters rather than the brainwashed slave puppets of the terrorist state, iran.

i suspect it comes from a subconscious anti semitic mindset, envious of the intelligence, industry and innovitaveness displayed by the jews in the democracy of israel as it has thrived, while the palestinians, a lazy, indolent bunch of donkeys (that in their 2000 years of living in palestine managed to transform it from a fertile land to an arid empty desert) , have always played victim instead of adapting to the situation, a possibly unfair situation i will grant, that they found themselves in and expecting the world to feel sorry for them. one only has to look around to see that the only people to feel sorry for them are themselves fully paid up members of the loser class who cry victim to any imagined infringement of their misplaced sense of entitlement.

the obliteration of gaza is now thankfully well underway, and unfortunately so are the funerals of the 250 teenagers hunted and mown down like wild animals as they attended a music festival close to the border with gaza by those courageous freedom fighters......the ones who also abducted and took hostage a 90 year old grandmother from a nearby settlement.

in other news, jeremy corbyn refused to condemn hamas yesterday at the labour party conference inthe uk, and it seems that the plucky little warriors of hamas have managed to kill 12 thai workers in their massacre. wonder what the thais did to annoy them?

**Hugh Cow** · 09-10-2023, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by OhOh

Israeli settlers storm Jerusalem's al-Aqsa, march through Palestinian neighbourhoods

MENA

1 min read

The New Arab Staff

03 October, 2023

"Scores of Israeli settlers stormed Jerusalem’s Al-Aqsa Mosque on Tuesday under police escort, the Palestinian Authority’s official Wafa news agency reported.

More than 200 settlers entered the compound and performed Jewish rituals in front of the Bab al-Qattanin gate, a source at the Islamic Endowments Department told The New Arab’s Arabic-language sister site Al-Araby Al-Jadeed. The settlers were led by far-right extremist rabbi Yehuda Glick.

Settlers also provocatively marched through Palestinian neighbourhoods near to the mosque.

Jewish extremists have increasingly tried to storm the mosque in recent months, performing provocative religious rites there in violation of a long-standing status quo, which while allowing non-Muslims to visit the site, only permits Muslim prayer there."

Israeli settlers storm al-Aqsa, perform Jewish prayers

"Imagine the reaction in the Christian world if Muslims entered St. Peter’s Basilica and forcibly ejected Christian worshippers from that sanctuary. Maybe that parallel example will help you appreciate why muslims, not just Hamas, are reacting with such vitriol."

Then what would you call the muslim takeover of the church of Sophia in Istanbul? It was the centre for the eastern Orthodox Christians and was the second mostly holy Christian church. It has recently been converted yet again to a mosque without any consultation. Do you not think that doesn't offend Christians you idiot?
Imagine if Christians took over Al Aqsa mosque and turned it into a Christian church. The whole muslim world would be calling for Jihad and what few Christians that remain in the middle east that havent already been persecuted killed or forced to flee would be wiped out.
There is absolutely no comparison between modern Christians and Muslims. Even allowing for some extremely stupid right wing American Christians.
Stevie wonder can see better than you.
Again your blinkered world vision blinds you to the truth and any form of common sense.

**cyrille** · 09-10-2023, 09:18 AM

Can't wait for news of other people who've 'refused to condemn' something.

Elton John is a chief suspect.

And wouldn't comparisons between 'modern' Christians and 'modern' Muslims be more revealing?

Well, if you hadn't already made your mind up it might be.

But nah, we've just got two of TD's crustier types sharing their outdated prejudices above.

**Hugh Cow** · 09-10-2023, 09:45 AM

Sorry I got distracted by OhSo dum.

The attack on the US Liberty which may well have been a case of disastrous missidentification by Israel nonetheless was covered up by both countries, showing what length the USA is willing to go to protect its main ally in the middle east. The USA has vetoed most of the 45 resolutions against Israel. From 2013 to 2022 there were 650 Palestinians killed by the IDF. That does not include the journalist they killed with impunity. Children as young as 13 or 14 have been gaoled for months and sometimes years. They regularly bulldoze palestinian homes,allow Israelis to buid illegal settlements, build a wall on Pallestinian land and evict Arabs from Jerusalem. That's before you even get to expelling Palestinians from their farms and land in the past with no right of return. They control water electricity and who comes or goes. They are aided and abetted by the USA and many western countires in committing crimes against the Palestinians from illegal detention to torture.
Even me who certainly has no love of Islam or its adherents, can see the many gross injustices visited on the Palestinians, with the aid and hypocricy of a complicit west. The west sanctions Iran for trying to build nuclear weapons but turns a blind eye to Israels secret nuclear program.
What a surprise the Palestinians have had enough, even though they know the retaliation from Israel will be disproportionate.
The Israelis have learnt well from their former persecutors. The star of David no doubt looks like a Swastika to many Palestinians.

**Munted** · 09-10-2023, 09:45 AM

In the wider context the Russians will be happy to see the conflict widen into a development of a two front war against the US empire. More depletion of the war weapons owned by the empire and its vassal states will be a great outcome for the ideal of world peace. In addition, the more the empire is engaged in multiple fronts, the more likely China will make a move and finally properly amalgamate Taiwan into the socialist state. Unfortunately no empire has ever gone peacefully, more blood and carnage is on the near horizon. It will never end until it does. Then people will look back and say to themselves wtf we ever permitted a war mongering nation such as the USA to ever exist.

**Seekingasylum** · 09-10-2023, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by taxexile

seems to be a lot of misplaced sympathy for hamas here, seeing them as righteous freedom fighters rather than the brainwashed slave puppets of the terrorist state, iran.

i suspect it comes from a subconscious anti semitic mindset, envious of the intelligence, industry and innovitaveness displayed by the jews in the democracy of israel as it has thrived, while the palestinians, a lazy, indolent bunch of donkeys (that in their 2000 years of living in palestine managed to transform it from a fertile land to an arid empty desert) , have always played victim instead of adapting to the situation, a possibly unfair situation i will grant, that they found themselves in and expecting the world to feel sorry for them. one only has to look around to see that the only people to feel sorry for them are themselves fully paid up members of the loser class who cry victim to any imagined infringement of their misplaced sense of entitlement.

the obliteration of gaza is now thankfully well underway, and unfortunately so are the funerals of the 250 teenagers hunted and mown down like wild animals as they attended a music festival close to the border with gaza by those courageous freedom fighters......the ones who also abducted and took hostage a 90 year old grandmother from a nearby settlement.

in other news, jeremy corbyn refused to condemn hamas yesterday at the labour party conference inthe uk, and it seems that the plucky little warriors of hamas have managed to kill 12 thai workers in their massacre. wonder what the thais did to annoy them?

Of those casualty statistics I cited earlier, (deaths since 2008 in the conflict before the current incidents), 1,437 Palestinian children were killed by the Israelis, 25 Israeli children were killed by Palestinians.

Facts Tax, not dozy right wing bigotry and crazed rhetoric from warty old English dinosaurs sucking up propaganda to suit personal agendas based on prejudice and ignorance.

**Seekingasylum** · 09-10-2023, 10:47 AM

By the way Tax, are you Jewish? You seem to embrace the mentality of those ghastly orthodox fanatics intent on occupying the West Bank whose cruelty is only exceeded by their stupidity and arrogance.

In my book, they don’t get a free pass ad infinitum simply because their antecedents were murdered by a nation similarly afflicted.

**Takeovers** · 09-10-2023, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by pickel

Using the IDF to forcibly remove Palestinians from their homes, bulldoze the land and then "settle" it with religious zealots aren't exactly heroic battles tax.

Instead of seeking peace the Arabs/Palestineans waged war after war after war and lost them all. Beginning and losing wars does have consequences.

**Seekingasylum** · 09-10-2023, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Munted

In the wider context the Russians will be happy to see the conflict widen into a development of a two front war against the US empire. More depletion of the war weapons owned by the empire and its vassal states will be a great outcome for the ideal of world peace. In addition, the more the empire is engaged in multiple fronts, the more likely China will make a move and finally properly amalgamate Taiwan into the socialist state. Unfortunately no empire has ever gone peacefully, more blood and carnage is on the near horizon. It will never end until it does. Then people will look back and say to themselves wtf we ever permitted a war mongering nation such as the USA to ever exist.

Many Putin oligarchs hold Israeli passports and I understand from some of my Russian acquaintances the suspicion that Putin himself is Jewish is quite prevalent.

**Seekingasylum** · 09-10-2023, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Instead of seeking peace the Arabs/Palestineans waged war after war after war and lost them all. Beginning and losing wars does have consequences.

You seem to overlook the fact that the conflict began in the annexation of Arab lands by Zionists aided by bungling imperialists using violence and terror to achieve their aims.
Israel is simply sowing the dragon teeth of vengeance in their continuing repression of Palestinians and the destruction of Gaza.

**BusterCherry** · 09-10-2023, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

By the way Tax, are you Jewish? You seem to embrace the mentality of those ghastly orthodox fanatics intent on occupying the West Bank whose cruelty is only exceeded by their stupidity and arrogance.

In my book, they don’t get a free pass ad infinitum simply because their antecedents were murdered by a nation similarly afflicted.

Are you condoning the actions of Hamas?

**Munted** · 09-10-2023, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Many Putin oligarchs hold Israeli passports and I understand from some of my Russian acquaintances the suspicion that Putin himself is Jewish is quite prevalent.

Being Jewish is not an issue. Being a Jewish white supremacist / Zionist (one and the same) is entirely different. Putin is sincere - there is no evidence that his stated aim to destroy the decadent proto-Nazi regime in Kiev is a fake. I would expect Putin will view the Jewish regime the same. The evidence is such both the Jewish and Ukraine regimes collaborate in many areas of mutual interest. Regards the oligarchs. They are no longer running rampart like in the years immediately post 1991. The Russian state has learnt the wholesome perspective of the Chinese state. Never should these parasites be permitted a seat at the table.

**BusterCherry** · 09-10-2023, 12:09 PM

Presented with no comment

**david44** · 09-10-2023, 12:51 PM

Killing unarmed non combatants by both sides should be universally condemned.

The children killed are not responsible for the Holocaust Nakba or the series of missteps.

**malmomike77** · 09-10-2023, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by BusterCherry

Are you condoning the actions of Hamas?

Of course he is. He's closet corbynite faux paddy.

**Hugh Cow** · 09-10-2023, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by cyrille

Can't wait for news of other people who've 'refused to condemn' something.

Elton John is a chief suspect.

And wouldn't comparisons between 'modern' Christians and 'modern' Muslims be more revealing?

Well, if you hadn't already made your mind up it might be.

But nah, we've just got two of TD's crustier types sharing their outdated prejudices above.

Oh FFS you fooking useless pedantic twat. If I had said modern Brits and Americans would you have assumed I meant modern Brits and "old" Americans? Of course not, most would assume modern meant both. It just goes to show how you read to suit your petty, negative agenda.
Why is it that you are incapable of anything more than snide comments and negativity towards other posters and rarely if ever make a constructive comment or present an alternative argument? It is certainly why you are consistently unpopular on this forum.
If everyone had your level of intellectual insight, A.I. would have surpassed human intelligence when the Abacus was invented.

**Hugh Cow** · 09-10-2023, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by DrWilly

Imagine the reaction in the rest of the world…oh don’t need to imagine

Oh dear. You're not trying to debate OhOh by using facts I hope.

**OhOh** · 09-10-2023, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

Then what would you call the muslim takeover of the church of Sophia in Istanbul? It was the centre for the eastern Orthodox Christians and was the second mostly holy Christian church. It has recently been converted yet again to a mosque without any consultation.

It wasn't "taken over", and it was a "museum".

If this is what you are referring to:

Istanbul’s Hagia Sophia opens as a mosque for Muslim prayers.

By MEHMET GUZEL and SUZAN FRASER - Associated Press - Friday, July 24, 2020

"Brushing aside international criticism, Erdogan issued a decree restoring the iconic building as a mosque earlier this month, shortly after a Turkish high court ruled that the Hagia Sophia had been illegally made into a museum more than eight decades ago.

The structure, a UNESCO World Heritage site, has since been renamed “The Grand Hagia Sophia Mosque.”

The move sparked dismay in Greece, the United States and among Christian church leaders who had called on Erdogan to maintain Hagia Sophia as a museum in recognition of Istanbul’s multi-faith heritage and the structure’s status as a symbol of Christian and Muslim unity."

More at :

Istanbul's Hagia Sophia opens as a mosque for Muslim prayers - Washington Times

It appears that a museum was reinstated as a place of worship.

According to this "history":

Hagia Irene

A church was built:

"Hagia Irene (Greek: Αγία Ειρήνη) or Hagia Eirene (Medieval Greek: Ἁγία Εἰρήνη Greek pronunciation: [aˈʝia iˈrini], "Holy Peace", Turkish: Aya İrini), sometimes known also as Saint Irene, is an Eastern Orthodox church located in the outer courtyard of Topkapı Palace in Istanbul."

"The building reputedly stands on .the site of a pre-Christian temple It ranks as the first church completed in Constantinople, before Hagia Sophia, during its transformation from a Greek trading colony to the eastern capital of the Roman Empire. According to later tradition, the Roman emperor Constantine I commissioned the first Hagia Irene church in the 4th century, which was completed by the end of his reign (337). It served as the church of the Patriarchate before Hagia Sophia was completed in 360 under Constantius II."

Hagia Irene - Wikipedia

One can assume the "christian's" regarded all non christian "temples" the same as all traits of the inhabitants of the "jungles" as opposed to the true inhabitants of the "gardens", as a recent educated EU politician

pronounced.

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